Haiti - it's NOT about "aid"

[Type_O]

http://www.youthnews.faithweb.com/main/confirmation/mahanaim/guests.htm

[Glacier]

Seems to be on topic to me. You seem to think converting is only for the religious, and they were probably not even "converting" as most Haitians are Christian anyway.

According to Wikipedia, Haiti is pretty much 100% Christian, so I don't think any Christian organization would be spending any time converting Haitians. Teaching them to be better people or better Christians, sure. But conversion, not a chance.

[Type_O]

Wrays of hope in Haiti
Return to digital BC Christian News | Print article

By Sheila Lockwood

When the January 12, 2010 earthquake rocked Haiti, killing 222,510 people and injuring another 300,000, the airports were closed. This meant that the first response had to come from aid workers already on the ground. Among these were missionaries Rod and Debbie Wray from Kamloops.

The Wray family – Rod, Debbie and their five children – sold everything and moved from Kamloops to Haiti in 2003. Debbie had told her husband that she would move anywhere in the world except Haiti, which is considered to be the poorest country in the western hemisphere – but World Team and the Lord had other ideas. Today Rob and Debbie have no regrets.

Every year has its challenges in Haiti, but 2010 started with a disaster and has finished in chaos.

After the earthquake, the Wrays transformed their mission’s 16-acre Mahanaim Sports Camp, 180 kilometres from Port au Prince, into a refugee camp for 120 displaced people. Since the site had a small hospital, the missionaries and visiting volunteers were also able to offer medical attention. Bill Tenhaaf, a surgeon from Michigan, performed 75 amputations during a three-week stay. The tragedy birthed the vision to build an orphanage for amputee children.

In Haiti, children are expected to work, hauling water, gathering sticks and cleaning. If they become handicapped, they are considered a burden and are treated harshly. In addition, many of the children had been orphaned as a result of the earthquake. The orphanage will give the children a healthy environment and an education – including a trade and training in the English language, so they can become translators. The orphanage building is expected to be completed by March.

New problems have cropped up.

After the earthquake, the Wrays, with the help of locals, began working on a rock wall around the perimeter of the camp. Bordered by the Caribbean and two rivers, the land

was eroding with every storm. Rod had acquired permission from local authorities, and the enormous floodwall was built to code. However, upon its completion, six policemen brought a man brandishing a sledgehammer onto the property. While the man pounded the wall, Rod snapped photos. Angered, the police wrestled Wray to the ground and held guns to his head. They confiscated the camera, handcuffed him and took him into custody.

The refugees and staff followed them screaming in Rod’s defense. The Wrays’ son, Tim, arrived at the jail with a UN representative, and the Canadian Embassy was quick to offer support. The turmoil led police to move Rod to another location. Sitting in a cell amid rats and mosquitoes, Wray sensed God’s hand: “He gave me peace and strength to make it through.”

Discovering the judge was one of the men who had held Rod at gunpoint was a shock, but, knowing that people in Haiti and North America were praying, the Wrays were confident that God would have his way. The charges were dropped, and Rod returned to Camp Mahanaim.

The country has changed little since the earthquake. The only improvements have been made through aid organizations who have taken on specific projects. Port au Prince is still overwhelmed by rubble, toppled buildings and overcrowded tent cities. Under such conditions, the introduction of cholera from a yet undetermined source in October spread quickly through contaminated water and food. The latest reports say 97,595 people have made hospital visits, and 2,193 deaths have occurred.

The Wrays are concerned for the people they have befriended in a nearby slum, Renault, where the missionaries teach Sunday school and feed 1,000 children. A recently completed artesian well has brought hope to the area. ”Especially with the cholera problems,” Rod reports, “it is a lifesaver for them to have their own fresh water . . . We found good water about 100 feet deep, and there is a one inch pipe . . . where people can wash and get water anytime.”

Next came Hurricane Tomas in November, killing seven people and flooding many of the refugee camps.

December brought bedlam to the streets with the results of the preliminary presidential election. Only two contenders can proceed to the run-off election on January 16, but the second and third candidates were only one percent apart. Protesters blocked roads, set fire to buildings and discharged firearms. The Canadian embassy has closed and the Canadaian government has released an official warning against travel to Haiti.

A dozen Kamloops firefighters and other volunteers planned to go to Haiti to work with the Wrays last January, but the earthquake stopped traffic in and out of the country. The firefighters sent the $21,000 they had raised plus an additional $25,000 collected from the community. They have rescheduled their expedition to January 2011 but are awaiting final travel clearance.

Even with all the risks, Rod and Debbie consider Haiti home. “It is a privilege to serve in Haiti,” says Debbie. “We are thankful to have the opportunity to be here”

For more information: http://www.harvestinternational.org/rodwray.html

http://canadianchristianity.com/bc/bccn/0111/o02haiti.html

January 14th, the Daily in Kamloops stated:

"The Wray's have a daughter, Carly Zielke, in Kamloops. She spent Wednesday sitting in front of her computer anxiously waiting for an email from her parents.

Zielke received a message from her parents shortly after the earthquake struck. Her family and the compound are fine.

The quake shattered communications systems in the Caribbean country, which might explain why more emails haven't appeared in her inbox, she said.

"I'm guessing (the Internet) is just down," said Zielke.No one from Kamloops will travel to Haiti as part of an aid mission with the Canadian Red Cross."

[Type_O]

Rod and Debbie Wray are Missionaries with Harvest International, partnered with C3 Church and World Team Canada.

World Team update; January 28, 2010

"Canadian Donors: Double the impact of your gift
The Canadian International Development Agency (CIDA) will match any donation made by a Canadian individual to the Haitirelief earthquake efforts. The gift must be made to a registered Canadian charity like World Team Canada, and given before Feb 12, 2010. Maximum gift per donor is $100,000."

[TyrianQuill]

Seems to be on topic to me. You seem to think converting is only for the religious, and they were probably not even "converting" as most Haitians are Christian anyway.

According to Wikipedia, Haiti is pretty much 100% Christian, so I don't think any Christian organization would be spending any time converting Haitians. Teaching them to be better people or better Christians, sure. But conversion, not a chance.

 

"RELIGION
Haiti Table of Contents
Roman Catholicism is the official religion of Haiti, but voodoo may be considered the country's national religion. The majority of Haitians believe in and practice at least some aspects of voodoo. Most voodooists believe that their religion can coexist with Catholicism. Most Protestants, however, strongly oppose voodoo.

Voodoo
Misconceptions about voodoo have given Haiti a reputation for sorcery and zombies. Popular images of voodoo have ignored the religion's basis as a domestic cult of family spirits. Adherents of voodoo do not perceive themselves as members of a separate religion; they consider themselves Roman Catholics. In fact, the word for voodoo does not even exist in rural Haiti. The Creole word vodoun refers to a kind of dance and in some areas to a category of spirits. Roman Catholics who are active voodooists say that they "serve the spirits," but they do not consider that practice as something outside of Roman Catholicism. Haitians also distinguish between the service of family spirits and the practice of magic and sorcery.

The belief system of voodoo revolves around family spirits (often called loua or mistè) who are inherited through maternal and paternal lines. Loua protect their "children" from misfortune. In return, families must "feed" the loua through periodic rituals in which food, drink, and other gifts are offered to the spirits. There are two kinds of services for the loua. The first is held once a year; the second is conducted much less frequently, usually only once a generation. Many poor families, however, wait until they feel a need to restore their relationship with their spirits before they conduct a service. Services are usually held at a sanctuary on family land.

In voodoo, there are many loua. Although there is considerable variation among families and regions, there are generally two groups of loua, the rada and the petro. The rada spirits are mostly seen as "sweet" loua, while the petro are seen as "bitter" because they are more demanding of their "children." Rada spirits appear to be of African origin while petro spirits appear to be of Haitian origin.

Loua are usually anthropomorphic and have distinct identities. They can be good, evil, capricious, or demanding. Loua most commonly show their displeasure by making people sick, and so voodoo is used to diagnose and treat illnesses. Loua are not nature spirits, and they do not make crops grow or bring rain. The loua of one family have no claim over members of other families, and they cannot protect or harm them. Voodooists are therefore not interested in the loua of other families.

Loua appear to family members in dreams and, more dramatically, through trances. Many Haitians believe that loua are capable of temporarily taking over the bodies of their "children." Men and women enter trances during which they assume the traits of particular loua. People in a trance feel giddy and usually remember nothing after they return to a normal state of consciousness. Voodooists say that the spirit temporarily replaces the human personality. Possession trances occur usually during rituals such as services for loua or a vodoun dance in honor of the loua. When loua appear to entranced people, they may bring warnings or explanations for the causes of illnesses or misfortune. Loua often engage the crowd around them through flirtation, jokes, or accusations.

Ancestors (le mò) rank with the family loua as the most important spiritual entities in voodoo. Elaborate funeral and mourning rites reflect the important role of the dead. Ornate tombs throughout the countryside reveal how much attention Haiti gives to its dead. Voodooists believe the dead are capable of forcing their survivors to construct tombs and sell land. In these cases, the dead act like family loua, which "hold" family members to make them ill or bring other misfortune. The dead also appear in dreams to provide their survivors with advice or warnings.

Voodooists also believe there are loua that can be paid to bring good fortune or protection from evil. And, they believe that souls can be paid to attack enemies by making them ill.

Folk belief includes zombies and witchcraft. Zombies are either spirits or people whose souls have been partially withdrawn from their bodies. Some Haitians resort to bokò, who are specialists in sorcery and magic. Haiti has several secret societies whose members practice sorcery.

Voodoo specialists, male houngan and female manbo, mediate between humans and spirits through divination and trance. They diagnose illnesses and reveal the origins of other misfortune. They can also perform rituals to appease spirits or ancestors or to repel magic. Many voodoo specialists are accomplished herbalists who treat a variety of illnesses.

Voodoo lacks a fixed theology and an organized hierarchy, unlike Roman Catholicism and Protestantism. Each specialist develops his or her own reputation for helping people.

François Duvalier recruited voodoo specialists to serve as tonton makouts to help him control all aspects of Haitian life. Duvalier indicated that he retained power through sorcery, but because voodoo is essentially a family-based cult, Duvalier failed to politicize the religion to any great extent."

source: http://countrystudies.us/haiti/33.htm
home page: http://countrystudies.us/haiti/

I reitierate:

“IF” an offer to help comes and is supplied without “any” direct or subtle propaganda http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda, that is fine, then it is genuine help, but ”ANY” inference and/or introduction contaminates, and the help is converted into a tool ... Yes the people still receive help, but in so are being directly or indirectly indoctrinated.

Such blatant perversion of "help," to intelligence is abhorrent and repugnant.

With the sense of justice and fair play, I think, this is why "religion” in the minds of the thinking, has turned from being respected to being infamous, the religious use and abuse what they so emphatically tout and profess.

Belief and faith are individual, religion is a group or is a political entity which use, and, very skilfully, manipulate to self-preserve in the name/disguise of help kindness and comfort.

And so I reiterate:

"IF" an offer to help comes and is supplied without “any” direct or subtle propaganda http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda, that is fine, then it is genuine help, but ”ANY” inference and/or introduction contaminates, and the help is converted into a tool ...

A tool to convert, a tool to indoctrinate, a tool to reinforce / embed, a tool to shape and mould ... etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

I am not here to convert I’m just suggesting you use critical thinking in these matters …. look at all the possible aspects and examine, use your brain.

[cliffy1]

Is this group going to be helping people in Haiti? Are they going to help people who don't accept their message? Is there something bad this group is doing? I don't agree with their teachings I'm just not sure where the issue is. Church groups have been going to disasters and giving real aid to people for years, all Bible teaching aside.

Besides the obvious, that this group will be teaching their beliefs to the people they aid, what are they doing wrong? If they will Help ALL people, even thoughs who disagree with their teachings, is that a problem?

Perhaps it has something to do with imposing their silly beliefs on impressionable young minds. Like Tyrian Quill said, help that has conditions attached is not help at all. A gift is not a gift if you expect something in return. Making learning your beliefs part of the condition for a sport camp is just plain arrogant and self indulgent.

Ya, all these clowns will come home and feel really good about themselves, not for the work they did, but because they think that somehow spreading the word (according to them) is somehow going to be rewarded by their god. It is selfish and self serving. I believe that is the thing they are doing wrong. Gifting has no expectation, has no hooks attached to it. These people are not gifting or loving. They represent what people are turning away from religion because of.

[TyrianQuill]

 
Yes and the learning how to get others to hand over their hard earned cash is a well honed skill that is studied practiced and shared. Whether it be selling a commodity a service or a concept the marketing of it is a very well planned out deliberate thing that goes on day after day and year after year before during and afterwqards for the next time such a ‘thing’ is presented. And the public/followers are well set/massaged into complying when ever the call goes out, when ever the bell is rung when ever the horn is blown ...

[cliffy1]

 
Yes and the learning how to get others to hand over their hard earned cash is a well honed skill that is studied practiced and shared. Whether it be selling a commodity a service or a concept the marketing of it is a very well planned out deliberate thing that goes on day after day and year after year before during and afterwqards for the next time such a ‘thing’ is presented. And the public/followers are well set/massaged into complying when ever the call goes out, when ever the bell is rung when ever the horn is blown ...

Pavlov didn't realize what he was starting in Jesus name, Amen.

[TyrianQuill]

Pavlov didn't realize what he was starting in Jesus name, Amen.

edited- nope sure didn't.

[zzontar]

Seems to be on topic to me. You seem to think converting is only for the religious, and they were probably not even "converting" as most Haitians are Christian anyway.

According to Wikipedia, Haiti is pretty much 100% Christian, so I don't think any Christian organization would be spending any time converting Haitians. Teaching them to be better people or better Christians, sure. But conversion, not a chance.

It would be like going to a democratic country to help and telling everyone that democracy's the way to go while you're there. I guess some would have a problem with that, too.

[cutter7]

I doubt anyone in haiti questions the motive for the help.

I wonder how many negative posters here would refuse shelter,food or water because it came from a religious group.

[fluffy]

I doubt anyone in haiti questions the motive for the help.

I wonder how many negative posters here would refuse shelter,food or water because it came from a religious group.

That's kind of the point of this whole discussion, isn't it? If absolute necessity dictates that they accept the "help" regardless of the price, the price in this case being a requirement to accept the promotion of someone else's religious beliefs, then one has to question the true motivations of the donors. Is this a case of rank opportunism in exploiting a people in dire need? Are the recipients given the freedom to choose what to accept and what not to? Food and shelter and medical aid without the sermon?

[cutter7]

I doubt anyone in haiti questions the motive for the help.

I wonder how many negative posters here would refuse shelter,food or water because it came from a religious group.

That's kind of the point of this whole discussion, isn't it? If absolute necessity dictates that they accept the "help" regardless of the price, the price in this case being a requirement to accept the promotion of someone else's religious beliefs, then one has to question the true motivations of the donors. Is this a case of rank opportunism in exploiting a people in dire need? Are the recipients given the freedom to choose what to accept and what not to? Food and shelter and medical aid without the sermon?

Interesting use of words. "rank opportunism" I don't believe the basic needs given are attached to a sermon. The op does mention the life skills classes offered do have religious doctrine.

Still I don't have a problem with people helping other people just to listen to their opinion. We all have the free will to believe what we want.

[fluffy]

Interesting use of words. "rank opportunism" I don't believe the basic needs given are attached to a sermon. The op does mention the life skills classes offered do have religious doctrine.

Perhaps some bias on my part is revealed. Addressing a need is one thing, promoting a personal view is another entirely. Individually there is nothing morally wrong with either, but when sold part-and-parcel with no options given to the "customer" then ethical questions arise. I admit I have no direct info as to just what is transpiring in Haiti, I'm just saying that there is potential here for the promotion of a religious agenda to a captive audience.

Still I don't have a problem with people helping other people just to listen to their opinion. We all have the free will to believe what we want.

True, but as a general rule that does leave a lot of room for abuse. Like I said, it all goes to the true motivations of those offering the help. If there is a religious agenda involved and it is being pushed upon people who have no other option,then maybe when the lights go out and it's just them and their God, they can give that a little thought.

[cliffy1]

Interesting use of words. "rank opportunism" I don't believe the basic needs given are attached to a sermon. The op does mention the life skills classes offered do have religious doctrine.

Still I don't have a problem with people helping other people just to listen to their opinion. We all have the free will to believe what we want.

Desperate people do not have a choice. What these bozos should be doing is listening to the Haitians, listening to their needs not imposing their will on the children. Rank opportunism is a perfect expression for what these people are doing. These people have no soul, just massive egos that think they know better than anybody else.