What is the point of enlightenment?

[good-cause-girl]

I have read just about everything on every religion and every book on why (they think) we are on this planet
and what happens (they think) after we die. Also on what happens (through hypnosis) of what happens in our life between lives. (Michael Newton is one) (Koran, bible, Ekanaknar?, and every thing in between). I have found nothing that stands true in any of them... Just books with 'be better than you are being' stuff.

Now with that said, I carry one question, that no matter what holy book, what 'after life' book, what monks say, ministers walk away from the question like I asked for a kidney, what science says and what people in general think, no one wants to answer or can,,.....

What is the point?

It is said (most, if not all spiritual teachings) that we are here to learn lessons so our souls can move forth to enlightenment (sorry if it is spelled wrong, I'm trying not to lose my thought) but not one person can tell me, or even guess as to why? What is the point of getting all enlightened if there is nothing at the end of it. Death and reincarnation seem to be accepted as something our souls do over and over,,,, but why?

When we get there are we just done? If so what was the point of going through the whole process of living, dying and what goes along with it all. What if I don't want to be enlightened? What if it is all bunk,,,, what if its not?

I am not questioning the reason why we are here, I could care less, we just are... I am questioning the 'end' of it all. The point of it all in "our own" end. What is enlightenment and why do we think it is something worth going after?

[Gilchy]

You are seeking the answer to the big question. Life, the universe, everything! The answer, of course, is 42.

[Sneaksuit]

You are seeking the answer to the big question. Life, the universe, everything! The answer, of course, is 42.

Good-cause-girl, what books have you read?

[fluffy]

What is enlightenment and why do we think it is something worth going after?

I've never really equated enlightenment with an afterlife of any kind, I don't really hold any beliefs in that area. It's a big unknown. I see enlightenment as gaining a deep, fundamental understanding of our place in the big picture, an understanding that frees us from internal conflict and suffering and lets us accept with a level of serenity the way things are. When enlightenment is looked at in that context, why wouldn't you want to go after it?

[grammafreddy]

Seriously ...

You are born, you live, you die. Goodbye. Nothing more "hereafter" anywhere.

[cliffy1]

People use various disciplines to attempt to reach enlightenment. It has nothing to do with death or the afterlife. It is about being here now with an understanding of your place in the over all picture. Some people have had spontaneous experiences of this sort (really pisses off those who work hard at it and never get there).

I was reading a by Tom Robins a long while back when I had such an experience. There was a line in the book, actually two words, that sent me flying backwards off my chair and onto the floor in peels of laughter. "Lighten up!" I was instantly struck by not only the truth of it but all the implications it has in our lives. Enlightenment is about a lightness of spirit (or just a state of being), an out look of life, death and everything in between. There is no way to become enlightened by being serious about anything. Fear, anger, depression, roles and duties, all the things that keep people from being happy are barriers to becoming enlightened. The point being, to live life to the fullest, with as little stress and anxiety, because this is it in the physical world. Bedeh, bedeh, bedeh, that's all folks!

The past is a lie because we have selective memory. The future is a dream. It hasn't happened. Right here, right now is all we have. To be present is to live. Dwelling in the past or the future is to not be present. Life passes you by. How much time do you "kill" in a day/week/year? You won't ever get it back. When you are enlightened, you don't waste time. But a person does not become enlightened once and it changes their lives forever,... well in one respect it does, but we are such habitual creatures that sometimes we forget to live fully and need to remind ourselves to get off our butts.

Thinking about an after life is a waste of life and life is a journey not a destination. Or as Ram Dass put it, life is a school. Take the curriculum. There is far too much going on to ever feel bored.

[TyrianQuill]

I have read just about everything on every religion and every book on why (they think) we are on this planet
and what happens (they think) after we die. Also on what happens (through hypnosis) of what happens in our life between lives. (Michael Newton is one) (Koran, bible, Ekanaknar?, and every thing in between). I have found nothing that stands true in any of them... Just books with 'be better than you are being' stuff.

Now with that said, I carry one question, that no matter what holy book, what 'after life' book, what monks say, ministers walk away from the question like I asked for a kidney, what science says and what people in general think, no one wants to answer or can,,.....

What is the point?

It is said (most, if not all spiritual teachings) that we are here to learn lessons so our souls can move forth to enlightenment (sorry if it is spelled wrong, I'm trying not to lose my thought) but not one person can tell me, or even guess as to why? What is the point of getting all enlightened if there is nothing at the end of it. Death and reincarnation seem to be accepted as something our souls do over and over,,,, but why?

When we get there are we just done? If so what was the point of going through the whole process of living, dying and what goes along with it all. What if I don't want to be enlightened? What if it is all bunk,,,, what if its not?

I am not questioning the reason why we are here, I could care less, we just are... I am questioning the 'end' of it all. The point of it all in "our own" end. What is enlightenment and why do we think it is something worth going after?

My answer: the root in human society is rooted in jurisdiction and the extent of that jurisdiction, and with that said, then, within human society, the issue defines answer- influence power and control.

Good question, and it is good that you pose it to others, but what is most important is “your” answer and how you perceive your answer; what you feel and think it means to your place in society your understanding of what and who you are …

In your post you allude to some stances, I suspect you are going through a transformation of sorts and are grappling with incongruities of what you used to think and feel and what is otherwise possible. You are on a search I suspect, that is ok, for some the search is the aim but for others a destination is more important.
Alternatively, you may be grappling with the difference between thinking and feeling and you are trying to decide which you would prefer.

But, whatever the case “your” answer is the most important.

[steven lloyd]

People use various disciplines to attempt to reach enlightenment. It has nothing to do with death or the afterlife. It is about being here now with an understanding of your place in the over all picture. Some people have had spontaneous experiences of this sort (really pisses off those who work hard at it and never get there).

Exactly, a feeling of acceptance of your place here in the universe, that you belong here. Possibly an understanding of purpose without having to know exactly what that purpose is (ie. knowing it exists and might reveal itself is enough)

[steven lloyd]

[good-cause-girl]

SL, yes, the 4 bottles of life. I am at the beer stage, actually scotch is my poison this week.

Yes I am at cross roads. I am half way through this time here and I am just lost. I do not seem to have any direction at all. I used to know who and what I wanted to be by the time I hit 50 but none of it is here. I had babies because that was what you did and I had them after I married as I was supposed to. I have always driven the speed limit, opened doors for people, held hands when they need holding and just always did what was expected of me.

Now, I have divorce papers, no education, no job, no god and next to no friends. I am good with all that, I have chosen it all.
But, this enlightenment thing has got me mystifyed. I think I want it. My new husband allows me the freedom to do my soul searching without judgement (I am not used to that part at all) and for every thing I try, I fail. It seems that maybe I am not supposed to 'get' in this life what others seem to 'get'.

I am not depressed, nor sad at all, infact I am very mentally healthy, just questioning the reason for it all. If as the one poster said, your born, you live, you die and thats it, done,,,,, well that just makes the whole experience seem redundant and useless. Some of you other posters have written words that make sense to me and have actually made me think, thank you. That was what I think I was looking for, someone else to tell me what I am not figuring out on my own.

Enlightment may not have been the right word, but it seemed to be the one that kept appearing during my search of the great unknown...

I will keep searching..... I will be the girl staring at the sky and tripping over the rocks on my path (and thank you to the fella that stopped and helped me up,,, you are a true gentleman for laughing with me and at me at the same time).....

[TyrianQuill]

SL, yes, the 4 bottles of life. I am at the beer stage, actually scotch is my poison this week.

Yes I am at cross roads. I am half way through this time here and I am just lost. I do not seem to have any direction at all. I used to know who and what I wanted to be by the time I hit 50 but none of it is here. I had babies because that was what you did and I had them after I married as I was supposed to. I have always driven the speed limit, opened doors for people, held hands when they need holding and just always did what was expected of me.

Now, I have divorce papers, no education, no job, no god and next to no friends. I am good with all that, I have chosen it all.
But, this enlightenment thing has got me mystifyed. I think I want it. My new husband allows me the freedom to do my soul searching without judgement (I am not used to that part at all) and for every thing I try, I fail. It seems that maybe I am not supposed to 'get' in this life what others seem to 'get'.

I am not depressed, nor sad at all, infact I am very mentally healthy, just questioning the reason for it all. If as the one poster said, your born, you live, you die and thats it, done,,,,, well that just makes the whole experience seem redundant and useless. Some of you other posters have written words that make sense to me and have actually made me think, thank you. That was what I think I was looking for, someone else to tell me what I am not figuring out on my own.

Enlightment may not have been the right word, but it seemed to be the one that kept appearing during my search of the great unknown...

I will keep searching..... I will be the girl staring at the sky and tripping over the rocks on my path (and thank you to the fella that stopped and helped me up,,, you are a true gentleman for laughing with me and at me at the same time).....

I am writing this is a hurry and will expand maybe later ...

I have traveled a similar path as you discribe.

I will share with you some concepts that were introduced to me when I was a child:

From my grandfather: life is to be savoured not endure
From my mother: life has stages
From my grandmother: close your eyes dear and think of England …
And the one I love-
From my great grandfather: you can do just about anything you want to dear, just don’t do it out in the street and scare the horses. LLOL !

Meaning of life? In my wanderings I have concluded that meaning is subjective and the meaning of one’s life comes from inside, it is what you make it. You get to choose, you have custody of yourself which may seem scary and bewildering at first, but in time you will look back and realize it is wonderful.

[steven lloyd]

Enlightment may not have been the right word, but it seemed to be the one that kept appearing during my search of the great unknown... I will keep searching..... I will be the girl staring at the sky and tripping over the rocks on my path (and thank you to the fella that stopped and helped me up,,, you are a true gentleman for laughing with me and at me at the same time).....

I don’t really know what enlightenment is. I know that for myself I have felt a connection with something I’ll call and understand as God – even knowing I am without the capacity to fully understand what is beyond understanding. However, even without any belief in God or universal connectivity or cosmic consciousness or whatever, I do believe there can still be a sense of purpose in a person’s life - even if that has still not yet been discovered at the age of 50. Perception makes all the difference.

You have had children? I never had any of my own and I can only presume there is some sense of purpose and satisfaction in bringing life into this world. Without that experience I have found a sense of purpose through volunteer work, and then later in life (in my thirties) through a career change that has allowed me a sense of feeling a part of something bigger than myself and that the work that I do makes a difference. At the end of the day when I look back on what I did with my life I hope to have some satisfaction in that. At 55 I have also done and experienced many different things, have done some travelling and plan to do some more, and with that there is a sense of discovery which for me also makes up a piece of that picture of purpose.

I know we are all not offered the same opportunity, and that choices made in life affect the choices we are later afforded. I think there are still many options for finding purpose, however, and for finding some way to feel like we are a part of something bigger than ourselves, that the world (even if just a tiny little piece of it) will be different because we were here and that our life made a small difference. I’d like to think mine already has, and I suspect yours already has as well.

[fluffy]

Enlightment may not have been the right word, but it seemed to be the one that kept appearing during my search of the great unknown...

I've got a little experiment you can try. Sometime when you have some space to yourself, quiet and alone, sit or lie down. Start by consciously relaxing your entire body, from bottom to top, one section at a time...feet, legs and so on. Pay closer attention when you get near the top, tension really manifests in the shoulders and neck. Make note of your eyes and tongue too, easy to forget those. Once this part is done, concentrate on your breathing. If your mind wanders, bring the focus back to your breathing. You will come to a point where you feel yourself sinking into the chair/bed/couch/whatever. Follow that feeling. The whole idea of meditation is not to silence the mind, that's pretty much impossible, a stream of random thoughts will always be there, but you can find a place inside where you can be apart from that stream of thoughts, where you are not actively involved in them, more of a spectator to their passage. Kind of like standing on a rock in a stream with the water flowing past you but you remain dry. It's hard to describe but you will know it once you find it. You may only be able to hang onto that feeling for a few seconds at first, but with practice you'll find it easier and easier to slip into this "sweet spot" and stay there a little longer. Sneak these little trips in where ever you can, a ten minute break at lunch time, a quiet break anywhere it comes along. It will come to a point where you don't need the controlled environment, once you know what to look for youcan pull it off on a bus, in the park, where ever. Within a month you will find your serenity level on the climb, stuff that used to bug you will bounce right off. Don't ask me why, I just know it works.

[cliffy1]

Perhaps it is the searching, the idea that we must do something, to find something that is outside ourselves that is keeping you from your truth. After forty years of searching I found that it is more about accepting, accepting yourself, your beauty and your power, your power to create your own reality, the power to be however you feel, whoever you feel.



As the Hopi say, "We are the ones we have been waiting for." Nobody is coming to save us from ourselves. Nobody is going to fix the mess we made. The mess is there because we have been denied the truth, the truth that we are responsible for all that we experience. Those that have been in control have used our fears and insecurities to manipulate us through religion and politics. They are terrified that you will find out it has all been a lie. You can take back control of your life. You need to take back control of your life if the world is ever going to change. We are all rooting for you.

[good-cause-girl]

Thank you so much, all of you. Just knowing that there is a kind of understanding of what this is, is very comforting. Thank you fluffy, I will try that. It sounds very soothing.

SL, you are very kind. My children are my world. They are grown with families of their own now and no longer really need me as the main female in their world. Sad but liberating for us all.

Cliffy, that video pretty much sums it all up doesn't it. I had heard of Greg Braden before and oddly enough yesterday I picked one of his books up at the library. Fate?

After a very long walk and talk with my husband we have both decided it may be time for me to look at going back to school for anything that sounds fun for me. Now I just have to figure out what that will be.

Thank you everyone for caring. I think my time is about to come, today we smile, tomorrow we dance and then I am going to get my behind into a classroom......... Maybe Philosophy? Maybe oceanology? Maybe art? Maybe cooking? Maybe anything is possible when you look through freshly cleaned lenses.............