Whose Islam?

Is there a god? What is the meaning of life?
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logicalview
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Re: Whose Islam?

Post by logicalview »

Atomoa wrote:
I can say the exact same thing about our society. Especially women.


LOL - this is just so silly a statement that there is no point continuing on this discussion.

Here's your "xenophobia", good grief.

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Stoning – the true horror
Posted: Fri, 09 Aug 2013 10:17 by Anne Marie Waters
Stoning – the true horror

Recently I posted a blog about the treatment of women in many Islamic states and the fact that such treatment, if following the legal definition, amounts to a crime against humanity. In it, I linked to a document produced by Amnesty International entitled "How to stone someone to death" (pdf). The document describes in step-by-step detail, as outlined in the Iranian penal code, exactly how to bury someone up to their waist — or chest if female — and throw stones at their head until they die.

A few days after I had posted the blog, I re-read the document and felt it merited a blog of its own. Why? Because we need to admit, and face up to, the true horror of stoning. It is really happening. It is happening to real people and it is happening in the name of Islam. This is the truth – whether we like it or not.

Liars, apologists, the desperate to believe, and the interminably naive will deny it, or wish it not so, but no amount of wishing, denial, or apology erases objective fact, and these facts must be confronted.

If you don't have time, or can't stomach it, here are some of the main points of the document (though the pictures are worth looking at):

The size of the stone is specified (with accompanying pictures) so that it will not be too small, or too big. Suffering is important.

A man is buried to his waist and a woman to her chest. If he/she can get out of the hole, they can escape the punishment; so must make sure women cannot get out.

If the stoning is based on confession, the judge will throw the first stone. If based on witness testimony, the witness will throw the first stone.

Every 20 minutes or so, the stoning will stop to see if the condemned has yet died. If not, stoning continues (this is Article 23 by the way).

It is not all bad news though: Article 16 states that the punishment should not "inflict torture, torment or mutilation of the condemned" and the stoning will be carried out "with ultimate calmness and without exercising violence". I'm not sure what dictionary the Iranian regime reads but they've got a rather strange understanding of the words "torture" and "violence" - but then words mean whatever you want them to mean when you talk about Islam.


http://www.secularism.org.uk/blog/2013/ ... rue-horror

I won't post the pictures, they are just too graphic.
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Re: Whose Islam?

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Welcome to Belgistan. The number one baby name for four years straight in Brussels has been "Mohammed". Europe in twenty years or thirty years, given current birth rates, will more than likely be "Eurabia", an entire continent dedicated to Sharia Law and fundamentalist Islam.
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Re: Whose Islam?

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logicalview wrote:
Welcome to Belgistan. The number one baby name for four years straight in Brussels has been "Mohammed".


Welcome to the planet earth where Mohammed is the most used name worldwide.
The true business of people should be to go back to
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thinking about before somebody came along and told
them they had to earn a living.

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Re: Whose Islam?

Post by Atomoa »

logicalview wrote:LOL - this is just so silly a statement that there is no point continuing on this discussion.

Here's your "xenophobia", good grief.



...a women is raped every two minutes in our society.
The true business of people should be to go back to
school and think about whatever it was they were
thinking about before somebody came along and told
them they had to earn a living.

- Buckminster Fuller
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logicalview
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Re: Whose Islam?

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Atomoa wrote:
...a women is raped every two minutes in our society.


so now you want to talk about rape eh??? You were stone silent on stoning - what a surprise. Like everything else with you leftists, if you have no rebuttal, rather than admit you were wrong, you change the subject. Ok. Let's talk about rape....

Muslims raped over 300 Swedish children and 700 women in 7 months of 2013

Cecilia Malmström, the unkept ragged European Commissioner for Home Affairs, do not care about the rapidly rising rape crimes against children in her own country or through Europe by the Muslim immigrants she has backed to have entry into Europe. She has promised that more Muslim terrorists and extreme misogynists cloaked as asylum seekers, must be admitted into Europe so crime, rape and murder can increase even more. Malmström is eager to let women and children be raped and abused in Sweden so she can appear politically correct and pretend to be a humanitarian.

In the first seven months of 2013, over 1,000 Swedish women reported being raped by Muslim immigrants in the capital city of Stockholm. Over 300 of those were under the age of 15. The number of rapes is up 16% so far this year compared to 2012 numbers. A large proportion of the increase include rape of young [pre-teen] girls. [Bing translated]

The official radio report quoted from BRÅ (The Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention) refuses to mention the M-word in the socialist-suffocated Sweden, a country held hostage by the extreme left. But when you contact senior police and government sources they confirm (anonymous in fear of losing their jobs) that these numbers represent Muslims. And a majority of these rape cases are caused by Malmström’s new asylum seekers.


And these numbers are only the tip of the ice berg. According to the authorities, Sweden’s real rape statistics are 400-900% higher than official numbers. The BRÅ website states:

“As few as 10-20 percent of all sexual offences are reported to the police. The Swedish Crime Survey (Nationella trygghetsundersökningen, NTU) provides a better picture of the extent of criminality, with data on both victims as well as perpetrators — which is lacking in the criminal statistics. Of those who are suspected for sexual offences, the majority are men and only about two percent are women. A majority of the victims are women. In a third of reported rapes, the victim is younger than 15.”

In spite of these horrid numbers and Sweden’s rapid increase in rape statistics, EU Commissions nutter and Swede Cecilia Malmström wants even more Muslims to arrive to her country, and to have access to the rest of Europe


Cecilia Malmström is the European Commissioner for Home Affairs. She used to be a politician for the Liberal Party in Sweden, but moved on to the EU level when she was elected to the European Parliament in 1999, and was later elevated further to serve on the European Commission.

Part of Ms. Malmström’s job is to oversee immigration policy for the European Union. Like most functionaries in the upper reaches of the EU bureaucracy, she favors the cultural enrichment of Europe through mass Third-World immigration. She and other unelected Eurocrats in Brussels decide how much and what kind of immigration is best for the EU, and then impose their diktats on the member states.

Read Geert Wilder’s letter to this truly insane, horrid woman Cecilia Malmström who clearly doesn’t care at all about the safety of women and young children in her own country.

Cecilia Malmström was a left-wing liberal in Sweden. Incidentally the left-wingers were the terrorists of Europe before Islam began terrorising everyone. Left-wingers were regularly investigated by security services pre 1990 for violence and inciting violence and stirring up problems.


Image

We published a previously article with a chart from The Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention, a government body for statistics. Watch the increase in rapes after Sweden became more and more lenient on asylum seekers and ME and third world immigrants.

http://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/201 ... s-of-2013/
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Re: Whose Islam?

Post by Atomoa »

Yes, both our societies rape.
The true business of people should be to go back to
school and think about whatever it was they were
thinking about before somebody came along and told
them they had to earn a living.

- Buckminster Fuller
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Re: Whose Islam?

Post by ifwisheswerehorses »

Atomoa wrote:Yes, both our societies rape.


In our society women/girs can have their rapist prosecuted.
Islamic women/girls are stoned to death for adultery.

Is this the future you prefer cause I sure don't.
I'll continue with my opinions of this 'such a peaceful religion' (remove tongue from cheek) and you can explain this to your mother, girlfriend, wife, daughter etc.
Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you’ll ever regret.
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Re: Whose Islam?

Post by A_Britishcolumbian »

so, if we prefer the former, what can we do to prevent the latter?
I'm not worried what I say, if they see it now or they see it later, I said it. If you don't know maybe that would hurt you, I don't know. You should know though, so you don't get hurt, so you know what side to be on when it happens.
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Re: Whose Islam?

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Atomoa wrote:Yes, both our societies rape.


what happens when their society rapes in our society?

Islam, Rape and Theology

Five days before 9/11, a famous Norwegian social anthropologist (and Norway may well be the only nation on Earth where there is such a thing as a famous social anthropologist) instructed her countrywomen that the way to bring down the high number of rapes – most of which, even way back then, were already being committed by “non-Western immigrants” – was for them to stop dressing in a manner that Muslim men found provocative. Norway, she lectured, was steadily becoming “a multicultural society,” and Norwegian women, if they didn’t want to wind up being brutally ravished in an alleyway by some Pakistani gang, should choose their wardrobes appropriately. Period.

That anthropologist, whose name is Unni Wikan, didn’t score any points that day for heroically championing women’s equality, but she was, at least, being honest. The rise in rapes in Norway – as throughout Western Europe – was almost entirely a product of Islamic immigration. That was a fact she didn’t attempt to disguise.

Then, however, came 9/11. And in the years since, there’s been a desperate effort by bien pensant types throughout Europe to deny that the ever-increasing incidence of rape on the continent has anything whatsoever to do with Islam. Some try to dismiss or explain away the numbers entirely; others grudgingly acknowledge them, while fiercely denying that there’s any Islamic connection at all; some, while admitting that a disproportionate number of rapists are immigrants, attempt to blame the problem on ethnic European racism, the idea being that immigrants grow so frustrated over their mistreatment that they resort to rape.

All of which is absurd to anyone who’s remotely aware of Islam teachings about sex and of the high incidence of rape in Muslim societies that is a direct consequence of those teachings. We’re talking about a religion that treats the male sex drive as a virtually holy phenomenon, and that allows men to have multiple marriages and divorce at will, even as it demands that females deny themselves even the most innocuous sorts of human contact in the name of preserving family honor – and that punishes a single infraction with death. In the view of Islam, when a man rapes an immodestly dressed woman, the rape isn’t his fault but hers; and when a Muslim rapes an infidel in the “House of War,” it’s recognized as a form of jihad. As forgiving as Islam is of virtually every imaginable heterosexual act that might be committed by a Muslim male, it’s equally unforgiving of a Muslim woman who happens to be caught alone, doing nothing whatsoever, with a male who’s unrelated to her, or who, for that matter, commits the inexcusable sin of being raped.

The only thing worse than being raped, moreover, is tattling about it. A couple of years ago, a Pakistani woman, Rooshanie Ejaz, contributed several very frank essays on rape in Muslim countries to the website of Norway’s Human Rights Service. Noting in a March 2011 piece that “sexual abuse is actively hidden in Pakistani society, and in Muslim society generally,” she said that “a large percentage of the people I have grown up with have experienced some form of it….Whether the act is committed by a cousin, uncle, house servant, or stranger, the victim is likely to be subjected to further abuse and emotional torment if she opens her mouth about it.”

One distinctive aspect of Islamic theology is its prescription of rape as a punishment – a punishment usually imposed upon some innocent female to avenge a crime committed by a male relative. In another 2011 piece, Ejaz cited a Pakistani village court’s recent decision in the case of a young man who’d been “seen with a young girl from a tribe superior to his”: it ordered several of the girl’s male relatives to gang-rape the guilty party’s sister, Mukhataran – who afterwards (as if the gang-bang itself weren’t enough) “was paraded nude” through the village. Sharia justice of this sort is commonplace in the Muslim world; the only thing special in this instance was that Mukhataran complained to the authorities and argued her case all the way up to the Pakistani Supreme Court – which, in the end, freed five of the six defendants, even as a chorus of prominent media figures and government leaders expressed sympathy for the rapists and dragged Mukhataran’s name through the mud.

Pakistan did pass a Women’s Protection Law in 2006 that allowed women to file rape charges even without the four male witnesses that sharia law requires. Before the law came along, 80% of Pakistani rape victims who dared to go to the cops ended up behind bars for adultery while their assailants remained free. Yet the law was a feeble instrument in a country drenched with Islam; and in late May, the Council of Islamic Ideology, an official body whose job it is to rule on the theological correctness of Pakistani legislation, announced that “DNA tests are not admissible as the main evidence in rape cases” and that, indeed, lacking those four male witnesses, you’re better off keeping quiet.

This rule doesn’t just apply to Pakistan, of course. In Afghanistan, where freedom from Taliban rule cost the U.S. and its allies thousands of lives and gazillions of dollars, the number of rape victims being sent to prison is actually on the rise. In April, the Daily Mail ran a harrowing account of a women’s prison in Kabul that’s full of inmates being punished for crimes of which they were the victims. (According to women’s-rights activists, “life for women is almost the same” in Afghanistan as under the Taliban.) Then there’s Iran, where, according to a 2010 Guardian article, the government uses “rape and the threat of rape as weapons against its opponents.” A 2009 piece in the Huffington Post quoted a young Iranian woman’s observation that rape victims in her country routinely keep silent about their victimization because “a young woman who has been raped can never be touched again.”

What about Syria? An April headline in the Atlantic didn’t pull punches: “Syria Has a Massive Rape Crisis.” A Syrian psychologist who works with rape victims said that she always tells families rape is “a way to break the family” and that she urges them, “Don’t let this break you – this is what they’re trying to do.” (To which the women respond: “Tell that to our husbands.”) A Toronto Star piece acknowledged that rape victims in Syria risk “being cast out or even killed to protect the family’s honour.” – yet managed, as so many of these reports in the Western media do, to omit entirely the words “Muslim” and “Islam.”

In wartime, Islam actively encourages the use of rape as a weapon and/or reward for the soldiers of Allah. On April 3, the Washington Times reported that Salafi Sheikh Yasir al-Ajlawni had issued a fatwa permitting Muslims who are fighting Assad’s regime to “capture and have sex with” non-Sunni women. Raymond Ibrahim observed the next day at Front Page that Aljawni wasn’t “the first cleric to legitimize the rape of infidel women in recent times”: a top Saudi preacher had recently green-lighted the gang-rape of captives, and an Egyptian imam had explained how to turn captured infidels into sex slaves. Yes, rape is almost invariably a side effect of war; but rape instigated by clergy and carried out in the name of God is an Islamic specialty.

In Libya, the number of rapes rose during its revolution – and has kept rising ever since. “Gaddafi used rape as a weapon,” one Libyan women’s-rights activist told the Guardian this month. “It was organized and systematic.” While rape victims aren’t imprisoned quite as often now as under Gaddafi, “there are still strong disincentives against speaking out, making it hard for victims to access help or to seek justice.” In March, two Pakistani-British women – who’d just participated in the latest convoy seeking to break Israel’s Gaza blockade – were gang-raped in Benghazi by a pack of Libyan soldiers.

So it goes. And yet when the growing incidence of rape in an increasingly Muslim Europe is discussed by politicians, academics, and mainstream journalists, such data are almost never adduced, the theoligical and cultural background to these phenomena almost never mentioned. In the last year or two I’ve written here about Oslo, where everyone found guilty of rape assault between 2006 and 2010 was “non-Western” (i.e. Muslim), and Sweden, with Europe’s second-highest percentage of Muslims and its highest rape figures; I’ve covered Britain‘s wave of Muslim “sex grooming” and Laurent Obertone’s documentation of Muslim rape in France.

All these developments have, of course, a common root – which it’s impossible to understand without a basic awareness of Islamic teachings about sex, gender roles, jihad, and so on. It’s all there, in the Koran, the fatwas, the sermons and public statements by those European imams who aren’t pretending to be building bridges and preaching love. No one who’s reasonably well acquainted with Islamic belief and practice should be surprised in the slightest by Europe’s rape epidemic. Unni Wikan (though her prescribed response to it was nothing but multicultural mush) saw it all quite clearly twelve years ago; Europe’s elites, however, persist in their refusal to recognize this epidemic as part of their continent’s transformation into a Muslim province. And so the statistics continue to soar.


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Re: Whose Islam?

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Swedish girls Malin and Amanda were on their way to a party on New Year's Eve when they were assaulted, raped and beaten half to death by four Somali immigrants. Sweden's largest newspaper has presented the perpetrators as "two men from Sweden, one from Finland and one from Somalia", a testimony as to how bad the informal censorship is in stories related to immigration in Sweden. Similar incidents are reported with shocking frequency, to the point where some observers fear that law and order is completely breaking down in the country. The number of rape charges in Sweden has tripled in just above twenty years. Rape cases involving children under the age of 15 are six - 6 - times as common today as they were a generation ago. Most other kinds of violent crime have rapidly increased, too. Instability is spreading to most urban and suburban areas.

According to a new study from the Crime Prevention Council, Brå, it is four times more likely that a known rapist is born abroad, compared to persons born in Sweden. Resident aliens from Algeria, Libya, Morocco and Tunisia dominate the group of rape suspects. According to these statistics, almost half of all perpetrators are immigrants. In Norway and Denmark, we know that non-Western immigrants, which frequently means Muslims, are grossly overrepresented on rape statistics. In Oslo, Norway, immigrants were involved in two out of three rape charges in 2001. The numbers in Denmark were the same, and even higher in the city of Copenhagen with three out of four rape charges. Sweden has a larger immigrant, including Muslim, population than any other country in northern Europe. The numbers there are likely to be at least as bad as with its Scandinavian neighbors. The actual number is thus probably even higher than what the authorities are reporting now, as it doesn't include second generation immigrants. Lawyer Ann Christine Hjelm, who has investigated violent crimes in Svea high court, found that 85 per cent of the convicted rapists were born on foreign soil or by foreign parents.

A group of Swedish teenage girls has designed a belt that requires two hands to remove and which they hope will deter would-be rapists. "It's like a reverse chastity belt," one of the creators, 19-year-old Nadja Björk, told AFP, meaning that the wearer is in control, instead of being controlled. Björk and one of her partners now plan to start a business to mass produce the belts and are currently in negotiations with potential partners. "But I'm not doing this for the money," she said. "I'm really passionate about stopping rape. I think it's terrible." In an online readers' poll from the newspaper Aftonbladet, 82% of the women expressed fear to go outside after dark. There are reports of rapes happening in broad daylight. 30 guests in a Swedish public bath watched as 17 girl was raped recently, and nobody did anything. The girl was first approached by 16-year-old boy. He and his friends followed her as she walked away to the grotto, and inside the grotto he got her blocked in the corner, ripped off her bikini and raped her, while his friend held her firm.

There are even reports of Swedish girls being attacked and cut with knives on the dance floor. A 21-year-old man who came to Sweden a couple of years ago admits that he has a low opinion of Swedish females –or “*bleep*” as he calls them. He is now prosecuted, suspecteded of cutting eight girls in several pubs. He is also charged with raping a girl at a private party, and with sexually harassing another girl in the apartment. Several witnesses claim that the 21 year old has said that he hates Swedish women.

Some Muslim immigrants admit their bias quite openly. An Islamic Mufti in Copenhagen sparked a political outcry after publicly declaring that women who refuse to wear headscarves are "asking for rape." Apparently, he's not the only one thinking this way. “It is not as wrong raping a Swedish girl as raping an Arab girl,” says Hamid. “The Swedish girl gets a lot of help afterwards, and she had probably *bleep* before, anyway. But the Arab girl will get problems with her family. For her, being raped is a source of shame. It is important that she retains her virginity until she marries.” It was no coincidence that it was a Swedish girl that was gang raped in Rissne – this becomes obvious from the discussion with Ali, Hamid, Abdallah and Richard. All four have disparaging views on Swedish girls, and think this attitude is common among young men with immigrant background. “It is far too easy to get a Swedish *bleep*…… girl, I mean;” says Hamid, and laughs over his own choice of words. “Many immigrant boys have Swedish girlfriends when they are teenagers. But when they get married, they get a proper woman from their own culture who has never been with a boy. That’s what I am going to do. I don’t have too much respect for Swedish girls.”

.


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Re: Whose Islam?

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“...a women is raped every two minutes in our society.”

Funny, seems like it got very quiet.
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Re: Whose Islam?

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Six posts later is not quiet.
Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you’ll ever regret.
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Re: Whose Islam?

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"Six posts later is not quiet."

It is when you count the days as opposed to the posts.
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Re: Whose Islam?

Post by Atomoa »

ifwisheswerehorses wrote:In our society women/girs can have their rapist prosecuted.


...and in our society if you have enough money you can buy your way out of any crime.
The true business of people should be to go back to
school and think about whatever it was they were
thinking about before somebody came along and told
them they had to earn a living.

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Re: Whose Islam?

Post by ifwisheswerehorses »

Atomoa wrote:...and in our society if you have enough money you can buy your way out of any crime.


And this has to do with the inequalities, injustices and torture experienced by the silent and powerless citizens of Islam how?
Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you’ll ever regret.

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