Why the 'rapture' means nothing to Christians

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averagejoe
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Re: Why the 'rapture' means nothing to Christians

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Hmmm wrote:So if a Christian wants to earn enough to support their families, this is wrong in your view TT? Would'nt a greedy attitude towards money be the real issue here? Not every Christian is greedy you know. As far as a rapture goes, if one were to believe in it, which would mean for them, an end to suffering and being with God, I find it difficult to believe most wouldn't be looking forward to it and wanting it to occur sooner than later.

There are also many many Christians who work tirelessly as volunteers to help improve the lives of others, these ones are also bad for wanting to just have enough to get by? You don't find that your opinion (which is not based on anything except your limited experience) is insulting to the 1000's who do this selfless work?


You are right Hmmm, Christianity has more volunteer organizations than any other religion helping out the poor in all countries around the world.
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Re: Why the 'rapture' means nothing to Christians

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Glacier wrote:Where does it say that? I'm thinking that you've never actually read the Bible.

"Christian Zionism is shorthand for the idea that the return of Jews to the Holy Land is a pre-requisite for the return of Jesus the Messiah, and the final redemption of the world. Believers who take this notion literally (and are understood, in that sense, to be fundamentalist) have been central players in the drama of Palestine for almost two centuries. A particular biblical verse seized the imagination of such Christians. (“O that the salvation Of Israel were come out of Zion! When God bringeth back the captivity of his people, Jacob shall rejoice and Israel shall be glad’’ — Psalm 56:6. St. Paul cited this verse in Romans 11:26, and Christians took it from there."
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/edito ... _zionists/
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Re: Why the 'rapture' means nothing to Christians

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Those verses are talking about a spiritual salvation, not a physical one. The Jews were looking for a "saviour" 2000 years ago that would rid them of the Romans. By contrast, Jesus came out of Zion as the saviour of souls, not of political tyrants.
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Re: Why the 'rapture' means nothing to Christians

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Your take on those verses is irrelevant, what's at issue is born again zionists have embraced them. Take the time and read the whole article, it's very enlightening.

I just found the Israelis and Christian fundamentalists to be odd bed fellows. There's no denying that both groups are very well represented in world politics. And have the distinction of drawing the lines in most middle eastern conflicts.

It's ironic that when all is said and done, it will be the hope of an afterlife that eventually threatens real life. So afraid to die that they perpetuate a Jewish faith tale and shape the world to demonstrate this faith. In an effort to give this life meaning they've lost all reason.
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Re: Why the 'rapture' means nothing to Christians

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Poindexter wrote:Your take on those verses is irrelevant, what's at issue is born again zionists have embraced them. Take the time and read the whole article, it's very enlightening.

I just found the Israelis and Christian fundamentalists to be odd bed fellows. There's no denying that both groups are very well represented in world politics. And have the distinction of drawing the lines in most middle eastern conflicts.

It's ironic that when all is said and done, it will be the hope of an afterlife that eventually threatens real life. So afraid to die that they perpetuate a Jewish faith tale and shape the world to demonstrate this faith. In an effort to give this life meaning they've lost all reason.

You're right that the Fundamentalists believe it and thats the point. I don't, as I believe Jesus words recorded in the Bible regarding Israel, not to mention what the Mosaic law stated regarding what would happen if they broke it.

PS, good luck getting the Muslims to tear down their 3rd most holy shrine where the Jewish temple in Jerusalem USED to be. Image
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Queen K
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Re: Why the 'rapture' means nothing to Christians

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Oh I can't think how I missed Dome of the Rock. Back in 1985 clueless tourists were allowed to enter so I did. But not before being asked to cover my hair as a sign of respect. So I did. And then entered. I wasn't screaming bout "my rights" and "I'm North American so don't have to". It's a holy site no matter who you talk to and you do as the locals do. Same with St. Sophia in Turkey.
Poindexter wrote: May 9th, 2014, 6:47 pm
Glacier wrote: Where does it say that? I'm thinking that you've never actually read the Bible.
"Christian Zionism is shorthand for the idea that the return of Jews to the Holy Land is a pre-requisite for the return of Jesus the Messiah, and the final redemption of the world. Believers who take this notion literally (and are understood, in that sense, to be fundamentalist) have been central players in the drama of Palestine for almost two centuries. A particular biblical verse seized the imagination of such Christians. (“O that the salvation Of Israel were come out of Zion! When God bringeth back the captivity of his people, Jacob shall rejoice and Israel shall be glad’’ — Psalm 56:6. St. Paul cited this verse in Romans 11:26, and Christians took it from there."
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/edito ... _zionists/
Oddly Christian Zionism was brought up today in the Tic Toc Israel thread. Does anyone have a firm grasp on what it is and how it drives American foreign policy?

https://ciaotest.cc.columbia.edu/olj/ad ... daw01.html

So now that you read all of that ^^, what do you think?
Last edited by Queen K on Nov 17th, 2023, 6:28 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Why the 'rapture' means nothing to Christians

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Thinktank wrote: May 9th, 2014, 7:36 am 1 Thessalonians 4:17 - Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

^ I thought that was the only scripture in the bible that made everyone think of a rapture.\

there are dozens of scriptures that hint about it, supposedly. For example:

Matthew 24:21 - For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

^ this scripture hints that something is going to happen eventually - we just don't know exactly what.

http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Bib ... e-Rapture/
In our days of science this sounds like many deaths all at once and tribulation, the nuclear fall out to happen.
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Re: Why the 'rapture' means nothing to Christians

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I asked a pastor about those passages recently, and he said that Hey Zeus was predicting the destruction of the temple. 2 would be in the field and 1 taken. The one taken was not taken in a "rapture" but rather killed by a roman when they came in and massacred the population.

Just before saying all that he told his disciples that every stone of the temple would be thrown down. And also, "when you see the abomination of desolation in the Temple that Daniel prophesied, run the hills and hide because a great tribulation will be upon you."

many Christians (by far the majority I think) say that this is about the future, but as this pastor pointed out, he was explicitly answering the disciple's question about when the temple would be destroyed.
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Re: Why the 'rapture' means nothing to Christians

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I wish helium had better lifting capacity.
In the downtown core of a major city...
I'd dress up a bunch of cheap blow up 'adult' dolls in business clothes, wait till the next test of the emergency broadcast system and let em fly.
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Re: Why the 'rapture' means nothing to Christians

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I've seen that meme on facebook and it's still not funny.

Try reading this on Trump and Christian Zionism though. F.u.n.n.y.

https://ash.harvard.edu/christian-zioni ... y-politics
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Re: Why the 'rapture' means nothing to Christians

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Glacier wrote: Nov 16th, 2023, 6:44 pm I asked a pastor about those passages recently, and he said that Hey Zeus was predicting the destruction of the temple. 2 would be in the field and 1 taken. The one taken was not taken in a "rapture" but rather killed by a roman when they came in and massacred the population.

Just before saying all that he told his disciples that every stone of the temple would be thrown down. And also, "when you see the abomination of desolation in the Temple that Daniel prophesied, run the hills and hide because a great tribulation will be upon you."

many Christians (by far the majority I think) say that this is about the future, but as this pastor pointed out, he was explicitly answering the disciple's question about when the temple would be destroyed.
Speaking of, a great many people forget that there was a Jewish group at the top of Masada, overlooking the Dead Sea being besieged by the Romans.

And when the Roman Ramparts could no longer be defended against, they all took poison to die before being captured.
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Queen K
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Re: Why the 'rapture' means nothing to Christians

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A good grounding on Christian Zionism can be found here In fact the whole site is worth exploring.

https://www.icej.org/understand-israel/ ... onism-101/
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Re: Why the 'rapture' means nothing to Christians

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Queen K wrote: Nov 16th, 2023, 7:24 pm
Glacier wrote: Nov 16th, 2023, 6:44 pm I asked a pastor about those passages recently, and he said that Hey Zeus was predicting the destruction of the temple. 2 would be in the field and 1 taken. The one taken was not taken in a "rapture" but rather killed by a roman when they came in and massacred the population.

Just before saying all that he told his disciples that every stone of the temple would be thrown down. And also, "when you see the abomination of desolation in the Temple that Daniel prophesied, run the hills and hide because a great tribulation will be upon you."

many Christians (by far the majority I think) say that this is about the future, but as this pastor pointed out, he was explicitly answering the disciple's question about when the temple would be destroyed.
Speaking of, a great many people forget that there was a Jewish group at the top of Masada, overlooking the Dead Sea being besieged by the Romans.

And when the Roman Ramparts could no longer be defended against, they all took poison to die before being captured.
According to christians those Jews won’t be going to heaven.
Oh wait, according to christians no Jews will be going to heaven.
Why would anyone want to go to heaven anyway, it would be full of christians. And no dogs.
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Re: Why the 'rapture' means nothing to Christians

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I don't get why the rapture means nothing to Christians anyways. What is the point to this title?
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Re: Why the 'rapture' means nothing to Christians

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Queen K wrote: Nov 17th, 2023, 6:32 am I don't get why the rapture means nothing to Christians anyways. What is the point to this title?
To understand the title you would need to understand the OP's thinking process. :biggrin:
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