Near death experiences the new religion?

Is there a god? What is the meaning of life?
User avatar
Omnitheo
Guru
Posts: 7638
Joined: Jul 19th, 2011, 10:10 am

Re: Near Death Experiences the new religion?

Post by Omnitheo »

Fair enough, i'm curious though, what are demons to you? are they a humanoid creature? Do they have a corporeal form? do they appear in the real world, or do they only reveal themselves through dreams or NDEs? Sorry if you've answered
any of these questions already
"Dishwashers, the dishwasher, right? You press it. Remember the dishwasher, you press it, there'd be like an explosion. Five minutes later you open it up the steam pours out, the dishes -- now you press it 12 times, women tell me again." - Trump
User avatar
cliffy1
Übergod
Posts: 1108
Joined: Mar 5th, 2011, 12:41 pm

Re: Near Death Experiences the new religion?

Post by cliffy1 »

BelieveNothing wrote:If what you claim is true cliffy...that would be nice.

I used to think and believe exactly as you do... My own experiences have taught me that I was incorrect in my belief that demons are a creation of an individual's psyche.

I was quite humbled, demons are a real entity and can be summoned by any person...sometimes easily and unintentionally and sometimes with ritual and intent.

Demons have to have been created at some point just as humans animals and plants were...but I cant agree that they are soley a creation of an individuals psyche.

They can also be the manifestations of a collective consciousness, of a group psyche. Like any other manifestations, angels, aliens, etc, it takes a belief in them to empower their existence. All the major gods and goddesses exist solely through the energy provided by those who feed them energy by their beliefs. If everybody stopped believing in them, they would literally dissolve into nothingness. Fear is the motivating factor that created them.
Trying to get spiritual nourishment from a two thousand year old book is like trying to suck milk from the breast of a woman who has been dead that long.
User avatar
BelieveNothing
Übergod
Posts: 1126
Joined: Jul 19th, 2013, 12:09 am

Re: Near Death Experiences the new religion?

Post by BelieveNothing »

I will agree with you to an extent cliffy... Yes, they can be created through a collective belief and I will agree that an individual can create their own.

But again, to me, I have been made aware that demons do NOT require your belief in them to exist.

You seem to be of the mind that nothing in the unseen is real, is this accurate about your beliefs?
User avatar
BelieveNothing
Übergod
Posts: 1126
Joined: Jul 19th, 2013, 12:09 am

Re: Near Death Experiences the new religion?

Post by BelieveNothing »

Omnitheo wrote:Fair enough, i'm curious though, what are demons to you? are they a humanoid creature? Do they have a corporeal form? do they appear in the real world, or do they only reveal themselves through dreams or NDEs? Sorry if you've answered
any of these questions already


My apologies as I missed your post omnitheo.

It is my understanding at this point in time that demons can be both non physical and physical. They are able to materialize if summoned to do so.

I have never personally seen a demon in physical reality, I suspect that they are not humanoid but more of a creature in physical manifestation.

They seem to live and originate in the non physical, summoned to the physical or have access to the density we call physical...which would make it appear that they are a product of a mental or psychological state.

When we are taught that the non physical world is void of life then we might be apt to believe non physical beings are a product of the imagination.

The non physical is very real and the living exist in both the physical and non physical, to my awareness.

Check out the Goetia and Aleister Crowley.
User avatar
cliffy1
Übergod
Posts: 1108
Joined: Mar 5th, 2011, 12:41 pm

Re: Near Death Experiences the new religion?

Post by cliffy1 »

BelieveNothing wrote:I will agree with you to an extent cliffy... Yes, they can be created through a collective belief and I will agree that an individual can create their own.

But again, to me, I have been made aware that demons do NOT require your belief in them to exist.

You seem to be of the mind that nothing in the unseen is real, is this accurate about your beliefs?

Not at all. I just don't give any credence to demons as self actualized entities. I do believe in conscious energies that are formless that may take on form to suit the beliefs of the observer. I have experienced these entities take many different forms in many different cultures but I believe they are all benevolent. Negative entities are human constructs. I believe the Universe is benevolent in nature. It is only humans who are so disconnected from the rest of the natural world that they create demons out of fear.
Trying to get spiritual nourishment from a two thousand year old book is like trying to suck milk from the breast of a woman who has been dead that long.
User avatar
BelieveNothing
Übergod
Posts: 1126
Joined: Jul 19th, 2013, 12:09 am

Re: Near Death Experiences the new religion?

Post by BelieveNothing »

I hear you cliffy :)

What you suggest seems plausible.

I think life moves in a perpetual balance of positive and negative, it does not resonate with me at this time that none other than humans are negative and the sole cause of negativity.

Do you think its possible that a demon can be created by a human being hundreds of years ago and then take on a life of its own and never be destroyed? Or do you think that the demon will cease to exist once the human being who originally created it has died?
User avatar
cliffy1
Übergod
Posts: 1108
Joined: Mar 5th, 2011, 12:41 pm

Re: Near Death Experiences the new religion?

Post by cliffy1 »

BelieveNothing wrote:I hear you cliffy :)

What you suggest seems plausible.

I think life moves in a perpetual balance of positive and negative, it does not resonate with me at this time that none other than humans are negative and the sole cause of negativity.

Do you think its possible that a demon can be created by a human being hundreds of years ago and then take on a life of its own and never be destroyed? Or do you think that the demon will cease to exist once the human being who originally created it has died?

Demons. like gods, require energy (in the form of belief) to exist. Cease believing and they cease existing. Also. darkness cannot exist in the light. A simple (fearless) smile can dispatch any negative actions, whether by demons or other humans. Negative energies feed on fear. Don't feed them.
Trying to get spiritual nourishment from a two thousand year old book is like trying to suck milk from the breast of a woman who has been dead that long.
User avatar
BelieveNothing
Übergod
Posts: 1126
Joined: Jul 19th, 2013, 12:09 am

Re: Near Death Experiences the new religion?

Post by BelieveNothing »

" There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy"
User avatar
BelieveNothing
Übergod
Posts: 1126
Joined: Jul 19th, 2013, 12:09 am

Re: Near Death Experiences the new religion?

Post by BelieveNothing »

I graciously continue to disagree :)

Life is a dance of energy...good...bad...and everything in between.

Life is not a Disney movie... Belief is not required for your existance nor is it required for any other entity's existance.

Your belief seems to pale in the face of those who have seen an entity, angel, demon, alien agaisnt their core belief that such entities exist.

Do you believe they are hallucinating, mentally ill...what are your thoughts?
User avatar
Sneaksuit
Board Meister
Posts: 460
Joined: Mar 16th, 2007, 12:34 pm

Re: Near Death Experiences the new religion?

Post by Sneaksuit »

You must ask yourself what you mean by "real" since there is no objective universe. Our relationship to the universe is that of co-creation, that is, we create our experience by our perception and interpretation of it and belief plays a major role. We are not passive bystanders. This is not to say demons are not real but they are simply not objective. There's enough psychology to suggest this and remember, quantum physics shows our thoughts literally affect the material world. I agree with Cliffy, that the synergy of group belief is much more powerful in its manifestations. The UFO phenomenon is witness to this.

This is important in my opinion because our current world problems are largely the result of our beliefs and disbeliefs.
User avatar
BelieveNothing
Übergod
Posts: 1126
Joined: Jul 19th, 2013, 12:09 am

Re: Near Death Experiences the new religion?

Post by BelieveNothing »

Belief is not the causality of life or existance in my opinion.

We are creators and co-creators, our thoughts, emotions, visions and actions are the tools with which we create.

Belief is an aspect of creation though belief is not required for a being to have a life.

I appreciate what is being said but I must continue to disagree.
User avatar
Sneaksuit
Board Meister
Posts: 460
Joined: Mar 16th, 2007, 12:34 pm

Re: Near Death Experiences the new religion?

Post by Sneaksuit »

BelieveNothing wrote:Belief is not the causality of life or existance in my opinion.


I agree. The universe evolves "at once" in relation to itself, like it's living and interconnected, so nothing is purely causal. Causality is mechanical universe philosophy (16-20 century) and is proven inaccurate by science.

People that believe in and experience demons (unique between cultures) obviously use their own language to describe them, but no one truly knows what the phenomenon is. Surely, demons are not the definitions humans give them, therefore, you might wonder about their ontology.
canada bound

Re: Near Death Experiences the new religion?

Post by canada bound »

When I was nine years old, I drowned at my Apartments pool party. The moms were making dinner and the dads were supposed to watching the kids, no one was in the pool as I ran around to go to where the kids were in another apartment. I slipped and fell in. I could not yell as I had swallowed water when I went in. I remember my body responding in the most fanatical fashion trying to stay afloat. Heart racing, your mind knowing THIS IS BAD, And the sound of laughter as the dads joked around drinking beer. Such a strange sensory experience.

What followed was the suffocation and helpless feeling as you sink to the bottom. I remember this was followed by the feeling of being lifted up, my sense was of my existence operating on a whole other vibration. It seemed as if it was like peeling of an onion, you shed all the fears, and cares, and pain your in and go to a purer state of being. I did not see my life flash before my eyes(at nine it would have been more of a commercial anyways). I do remember feeling I wasn't alone, the closet sensation would be that of a child in their mothers arms, I was not brought up religious so I had no preconceived ideas of Jesus, Angels etc.

I do remember feeling like I had been here before, maybe many times. Like the feeling you get hearing waves at the ocean or looking into a campfire. Then all very quickly I remember being pulled back, as if reeling in a fish, from about 30 to 20 feet above I saw the man who pulled me out giving me mouth to mouth, my Mother frantically crying and the crowd that had gathered. Then the slamming into my body, coughing up water the intense headache that lasted for days. And the utter relief on my mothers face I had survived.

To this day I do not fear death, but I do not welcome it either. I feel somewhat eternal, in the sense we seem to go on. I do not follow any organized religion as it just seems to muddy the waters for me, but I do not discourage it for others either.
User avatar
BelieveNothing
Übergod
Posts: 1126
Joined: Jul 19th, 2013, 12:09 am

Re: Near Death Experiences the new religion?

Post by BelieveNothing »

That is a beautiful story, thank you for sharing it with us :)

I feel I can identify with your story, I have never had a near death experience to my knowledge, however I know the feeling you speak of very well... and I am happy to hear that you have no fear of death, that is what makes it such a beautiful story.

Religion seems to be a program for the human resources management team ;)

Thanks again for sharing :)
User avatar
Poindexter
Guru
Posts: 6265
Joined: May 26th, 2008, 11:44 am

Re: Near Death Experiences the new religion?

Post by Poindexter »

canada bound wrote:When I was nine years old, I drowned at my Apartments pool party. The moms were making dinner and the dads were supposed to watching the kids, no one was in the pool as I ran around to go to where the kids were in another apartment. I slipped and fell in. I could not yell as I had swallowed water when I went in. I remember my body responding in the most fanatical fashion trying to stay afloat. Heart racing, your mind knowing THIS IS BAD, And the sound of laughter as the dads joked around drinking beer. Such a strange sensory experience.

What followed was the suffocation and helpless feeling as you sink to the bottom. I remember this was followed by the feeling of being lifted up, my sense was of my existence operating on a whole other vibration. It seemed as if it was like peeling of an onion, you shed all the fears, and cares, and pain your in and go to a purer state of being. I did not see my life flash before my eyes(at nine it would have been more of a commercial anyways). I do remember feeling I wasn't alone, the closet sensation would be that of a child in their mothers arms, I was not brought up religious so I had no preconceived ideas of Jesus, Angels etc.

I do remember feeling like I had been here before, maybe many times. Like the feeling you get hearing waves at the ocean or looking into a campfire. Then all very quickly I remember being pulled back, as if reeling in a fish, from about 30 to 20 feet above I saw the man who pulled me out giving me mouth to mouth, my Mother frantically crying and the crowd that had gathered. Then the slamming into my body, coughing up water the intense headache that lasted for days. And the utter relief on my mothers face I had survived.

To this day I do not fear death, but I do not welcome it either. I feel somewhat eternal, in the sense we seem to go on. I do not follow any organized religion as it just seems to muddy the waters for me, but I do not discourage it for others either.



Incredibly enlightening. What I liked about your explanation of your spiritual experience is it doesn't require faith. I hate to even use the term spirituality because it implies a spirit which is something that does require faith. It's almost a scientific view using what he felt and knows. \
\
I've always felt if you want to know what death is like consider what it was like before we were born. The notion that single deity has a soul factory that chunks out new spirits and jams them into every fetus is a stretch to say the least. But when you consider what we actually know for a fact, which is we were all technically dead before conseption. Yet we're all here, so making the transfer from unliving to living is charted waters for us all. So why worry about death or come up with some absurd religious explanation when it's not needed. We made it here from the unknown once which leads me to believe we'll do it again. It's why I don't fear death, we've all been there before.
Last edited by Poindexter on Jun 25th, 2014, 5:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Remember: Humans are 99% chimp.

Return to “Religion & Spirituality”