Who else rose from dead?

Is there a god? What is the meaning of life?
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maryjane48
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Who else rose from dead?

Post by maryjane48 »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dying-and-rising_god


Tammuz was the Sumerian god of food and vegetation and dates from c. 2000 BCE. His death was celebrated every spring. One version of the story has him living in the underworld for six months each year, alternating with his sister.
Osirus was killed by his brother Set and cut into many pieces and scattered. His wife Isis gathered the pieces together, and he was reincarnated as the Egyptian god of the underworld and judge of the dead. He was worshipped well before 2000 BCE.
Dionysus (known as Bacchus in Roman mythology) was the Greek god of wine and dates to the 1200s BCE. The son of Zeus and a mortal woman, Dionysus was killed and then brought back to life.
Adonis (from 600 BCE) is a Greek god who was killed and then returned to life by Zeus.
Attis (from 1200 BCE) is a vegetation god from central Asia Minor, brought back to life by his lover Cybele.
In Canaanite religion, Baal (Baʿal) was part of a cycle of life and death. Baal and Mot are sons of the supreme god El (yes, one of the names of the Jewish god). When El favored the death god Mot over Baal, the heat of the summer took over and Baal died. He was resurrected when his sister-wife killed Mot.
All these gods:
came from regions that were close enough to the crossroads of Israel (Mesopotamia, Egypt, Greece, and Asia Minor) for the ideas to have plausibly made it there,
were worshipped well before the time of Jesus, and
were of the dying-and-rising sort.
This is strong evidence either that the gospel writers knew of (and could have been influenced by) resurrecting god stories from other cultures or that these stories influenced the Jesus story when it was told from person to person.
Is it possible that Judea at this time was a backwater, and the people were unaware of the ideas from the wider world? That seems unlikely. The book of 2 Maccabees, written in c. 124 BCE, laments at how Hellenized the country was becoming. It says that the new high priest installed by Seleucid king Antiochus Epiphanes “at once shifted his countrymen over to the Greek way of life.” He “introduced new customs contrary to the Law” and “induced the noblest of the young men to wear the Greek hat.” The book complains about “an extreme of Hellenization and increase in the adoption of foreign ways” and the youth “putting the highest value upon Greek forms of prestige.”
In fact, the gospels themselves report that the idea of dying and rising again was a familiar concept. Jesus in the early days of his ministry was thought to be a risen prophet.
King Herod heard of [the ministry of Jesus], for His name had become well known; and people were saying, “John the Baptist has risen from the dead, and that is why these miraculous powers are at work in Him.” But others were saying, “He is Elijah.” And others were saying, “He is a prophet, like one of the prophets of old.” But when Herod heard of it, he kept saying, “John, whom I beheaded, has risen!” (Mark 6:14–16)
One Christian website does a thorough job attacking poorly evidenced parallels between Jesus and these prior gods. For example, was Dionysus really born to a virgin on December 25? Did Mithras really have 12 disciples? Was Krishna’s birth heralded by a star in the east? The author offers $1000 to anyone who can prove that any of these gods’ lists of parallels are actually true.
I’ll agree that there are strained parallels. One early work that has been criticized for too many claims and too little evidence is The World’s Sixteen Crucified Saviors by Kersey Graves (1875). The recent “Origins of Christianity and the Quest for the Historical Jesus Christ” by Acharya S also seems to be reaching, in my opinion.
I don’t have the expertise to weigh in on these many issues, so let’s grant the complaints and dismiss the many unsupportable specific parallels. What’s left is what really matters: that the Jesus story arose in a culture suffused with the idea of dying and rising saviors.
Apologists raise other objections.
Many of these gods actually came after Jesus. That’s why the list above only includes dying-and-rising gods who are well known to have preceded Jesus. There are many more such gods—Mithras, Horus, Krishna, Persephone, and others—that don’t seem to fit as well. In fact, Wikipedia lists life-death-rebirth deities from twenty religions worldwide, but I’ve tried to list above the six most relevant examples.
But Jesus really existed! He’s a figure from history, unlike those other gods. Strip away any supernatural claims from the story of Alexander the Great, and you’ve still got cities throughout Asia named Alexandria and coins with Alexander’s likeness. Strip away any supernatural claims from the Caesar Augustus story, and you’re still left with the Caesar Augustus from history (and a month in our calendar named after him). But strip away the supernatural claims from the Jesus story, and you’re left with a fairly ordinary rabbi. The Jesus story is nothing but the supernatural elements.
Most of those gods were used to explain the cycles of the seasons. Jesus isn’t like them. Yes, Christianity is different from all the other religions, but so is every other religion. If Christianity weren’t different from one of the earlier religions, it would just be that religion.
In another post I explore the Dionysus myth more fully to show the parallels with the Jesus story. That post also notes how Justin Martyr (100–165 CE) not only admitted to the similarities but argued that the devil put them in history to fool us.
Okay, they’re all myths, but the Jesus story is true myth. This was the approach of C.S. Lewis, who said, “The story of Christ is simply a true myth; a myth working on us in the same way as the others, but with this tremendous difference, that it really happened, and one must be content to accept it in the same way, remembering that it is God’s Myth where the others are men’s myths.”
So you admit that the Jesus story indeed has many characteristics of mythology but demand that I just trust you that it’s true? Sorry, I need more evidence than that.
And the throw-in-the-towel argument:
Just because Christianity developed in a culture that knew of other resurrecting gods doesn’t mean that Jesus wasn’t the real thing. Granted. But “you haven’t proven the gospel story false” isn’t much of an argument. Those who seek the truth know that proof is impossible and try instead to find where the evidence points.
And here’s where the evidence doesn’t point: that humans worldwide invent dying-and-rising saviors … except in the Jesus case, ’cause that one was real!


http://www.patheos.com/blogs/crossexami ... -savior-2/
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Re: Who else rose from dead?

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The N.D.P. most recently.
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Re: Who else rose from dead?

Post by I Think »

I swear some of my employees used to come in looking like they had only made it part way back from dead.
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GordonH
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Re: Who else rose from dead?

Post by GordonH »

At times it appears Keith Richards truly comes across as the living dead. lol
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Jlabute
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Re: Who else rose from dead?

Post by Jlabute »

Well MJ, I was going to thank-you for your honesty, but I see it was all copied :-) Does the article reflect your beliefs?

Without a doubt, the story of Jesus is amazing.

The Historicity of Jesus is for the most part universally accepted. He was a real person. Many writings exist from that period including Josephus(a historian) witnessed family.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

What I find intriguing is that for 1000's of years leading to his birth there had been many prophecies about a coming saviour.
http://christianity.about.com/od/biblef ... -Jesus.htm (short list)

Someone was born in Bethlehem and named Jesus (the location of Bethlehem was foretold) and lived until he was betrayed, tried, crucified (etc etc). Me personally, I find it unlikely that someone born in that right place and right time, would come up with a long term plan to force/fake all the 100's of prophecies and die by crucifixion, while at the same time having many followers and whose teachings have endured. It would be at least, amazing. Either that, or it was meant to happen.

Rising from the dead was foretold, and the reason as to 'why' completely different. 1000's of years before Jesus, spotless innocent lambs were sacrificed for sins. Jesus was innocent/spotless/sinless and was called the Lamb of God by John. So Jesus as like a Lamb, gave up his life for the sins of all mankind taking what should have been our punishment. It is a continuation and conclusion to the story of sacrifice/atonement in the Old Testament. The Death and subsequent rising show victory over sin and death for our benefit. So simply in the New Testament one who 'believes' in Jesus is granted the forgiveness of their sins. I don't think any other story parallels this, and over such a vast time period.

Well, it usually comes down to a matter of faith... many things can't be proven. If anything, it is a great story of Love. If everything were provable what would faith be for?
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Re: Who else rose from dead?

Post by Glacier »

maryjane48 wrote:Tammuz was the Sumerian god of food and vegetation and dates from c. 2000 BCE. His death was celebrated every spring.

It only took two sentences to find an error (his death was celebrated every summer). One has to wonder how much of this spiel is fabricated.
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Re: Who else rose from dead?

Post by I Think »

Lots of resurrections were known of in religious circles, apparently there is inscribed on the walls of a recently opened pyramid chamber the story of an Egyptian Monarch describing a three day resurrection. It is likely that the resurrection story was borrowed from other religions, just as christianity has a history of blending local lore into its teachings, you can plainly see this all over Western Mexico, where the Earth Mother is worshipped as the Madona.
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maryjane48
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Re: Who else rose from dead?

Post by maryjane48 »

lol yea im sure physical proof of other ressurections are fabricated . yes it is copied i think because its facts . my personal belief which i posted in other threads is im with bill mahar , believing in a god is suspension of critical thinking .

now with that said , if who ever wants to have faith , fine by me .


it is fact that the story of jesus in bible has been plagerized from earlier stories , thats not up for debate .

which brings us to if there was a jesus , i said no there was no jesus and still stand by that ., there may have been a man who went around preaching about the hebrew god etc etc , but he did not turn water to wine , he did not be conceived by some holy ghost , did not rise from the dead . and hes not coming back .


jesus is never mentioned in any historical text , only the latin word christos , which could be anyone .
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Re: Who else rose from dead?

Post by Dizzy1 »

maryjane48 wrote:jesus is never mentioned in any historical text , only the latin word christos , which could be anyone .

Many people, who've actually spent years researching, will disagree with you ...

http://www.gotquestions.org/did-Jesus-exist.html

... among accounts from various sources, this is the most compelling argument for me if Jesus, Jehovah, Messiah, Christ, whatever you want to call him, actually existed ...

Perhaps the greatest evidence that Jesus did exist is the fact that literally thousands of Christians in the first century A.D., including the twelve apostles, were willing to give their lives as martyrs for Jesus Christ. People will die for what they believe to be true, but no one will die for what they know to be a lie.


Was Jesus born through immaculate conception? Who knows. Was he resurrected from the dead? Who knows. Was he an actual physical being that people followed and believed he was the Son of God? The possibility is more likely he was than he wasn't.
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Re: Who else rose from dead?

Post by Dizzy1 »

maryjane48 wrote:it is fact that the story of jesus in bible has been plagerized from earlier stories , thats not up for debate.

Plagerized? LOL!

If you look into almost any religion, they all have very interesting similarities between them, who "copied" who, or which one evolved from which one has a fascinating history, I suggest reading this book ...

http://www.amazon.com/God-Against-The-G ... 0142196339
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Re: Who else rose from dead?

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Image
Trying to get spiritual nourishment from a two thousand year old book is like trying to suck milk from the breast of a woman who has been dead that long.
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janalta
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Re: Who else rose from dead?

Post by janalta »

Dizzy1 wrote:
... among accounts from various sources, this is the most compelling argument for me if Jesus, Jehovah, Messiah, Christ, whatever you want to call him, actually existed ...

[i]"Perhaps the greatest evidence that Jesus did exist is the fact that literally thousands of Christians in the first century A.D., including the twelve apostles, were willing to give their lives as martyrs for Jesus Christ. People will die for what they believe to be true, but no one will die for what they know to be a lie."[/i]


Are you really sure you want to stick with that answer Dizzy ?
The fact that delusional followers suffering from cognitive dissonance were willing to die for their god/prophet/idol is evidence of it's truth ?
Really ?

Do any of these names ring a bell ??
Heaven's Gate
Jonestown
Branch Davidians
Wise enough to know better.
Old enough to care less.
Dizzy1
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Re: Who else rose from dead?

Post by Dizzy1 »

janalta wrote:Are you really sure you want to stick with that answer Dizzy ?
The fact that delusional followers suffering from cognitive dissonance were willing to die for their god/prophet/idol is evidence of it's truth ?
Really ?

Do any of these names ring a bell ??
Heaven's Gate
Jonestown
Branch Davidians

They do - and each of them had a physical being that they followed and believed in. We may perceive what people believe in was a lie, but they don't - and having that physical being to follow makes it easier for them to believe in what they perceive to be the truth.

So yes, for me, the fact that so many people back in that time were following the Gospel of the Apostles and teachings of Jesus is a very strong argument (for me) that Jesus was a physical being - and your examples actually strengthened my view.
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maryjane48
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Re: Who else rose from dead?

Post by maryjane48 »

in not questioning your or anyone elses beliefs , nor should anyone else , but that does not mean my opinions or what i or anyone else believes to be true has less merrit .

i have seen enough evidence ,that is tangable to the effect that i think the story of jesus is one of many with the same story or very similar . and if it is true that jesus is a retelling of older stories , i fail to see how it affects christian history in anyway . its based on faith is it not ?
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Re: Who else rose from dead?

Post by Dizzy1 »

Yet Jesus only appeared in a handful of religious texts, all within the same region and all within the same time period. So that further strengthens the argument that Jesus as an actual person.

Many religious texts are simply historical accounts of world events and perceptions that have been converted into spiritual meaning.

I have no doubt in my mind that Jesus was an actual person and that isn't shared in any other previous religions, however, his purpose (spiritually), being the Son of God, etc. has a lot of similarity amongst other religions such as those of the Romans and Greeks. Which, if you notice, are two faiths that are almost identical to each other in every way even though they served two different civilizations. The Roman's adopted a lot of things from the Greeks in their worship practices, and both were Polytheism faiths (more than one God), and then all of a sudden, the Apostles came along and rocked their world with only one God and His son. Interesting times those must have been.

Zeus (immortal) had Alcmene (mortal) carry his child Heracles.
Jupiter (immortal) had Alcmene (mortal) carry his child Hercules.
God (immortal) had Mary (mortal) carry his child Jesus.
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