Why do atheists claim that Daniel is a forgery?

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Glacier
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Re: Why do Atheists Claim that Daniel is a Forgery?

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Ptolemy Soter wrote:To be clear, "based on" as in "rewritten". I've stated in another thread that the Bible was created for a reason, and that reason has plenty to do with "reviving" a dying empire.

Which empire? The Roman Empire? The one that came after most of it was written, and all of it was written before it had headed into decline?
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averagejoe
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Re: Why do atheists claim that Daniel is a forgery?

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Alexander the Great visiting Jewish Priest who tells Alexander that he was written about 250 years earlier in the Book of Daniel!

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Ecclesiastes 10:2 A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left.

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averagejoe
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Re: Why do atheists claim that Daniel is a forgery?

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Josephus's was a first century Jewish historian.....

A story from Josephus's writings confirms that Daniel's prophecies were received centuries before Alexander the Great conquered the world.
Ecclesiastes 10:2 A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left.

Thor Heyerdahl Says: “Our lack of knowledge about our own past is appalling.
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averagejoe
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Re: Why do atheists claim that Daniel is a forgery?

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Alexander the Great reads about himself in Daniel chapter 8

In Daniel 8:21 the angel Gabriel tells Daniel, “And the rough goat is the kingdom of Greece; and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.” The vision not only predicts the coming of the empire of the Greeks, but it also ­mentions “the great horn” as signifying its first king.

http://www.propheciesofdaniel.com/2014/ ... chapter-8/
Ecclesiastes 10:2 A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left.

Thor Heyerdahl Says: “Our lack of knowledge about our own past is appalling.
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JonyDarko
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Re: Why do atheists claim that Daniel is a forgery?

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The bible is one of the most tainted sources to cite from, multiple authors / revisions, was and is still highly susceptible to political interference and tampering, and it has been translated into almost every language and not always properly.

Not too mention the pile of :200: is just stacked way to high around it.
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averagejoe
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Re: Why do atheists claim that Daniel is a forgery?

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JonyDarko wrote:The bible is one of the most tainted sources to cite from, multiple authors / revisions, was and is still highly susceptible to political interference and tampering, and it has been translated into almost every language and not always properly.

Not too mention the pile of :200: is just stacked way to high around it.


Such as? Like you guys can't even carry a conversation about the BS you spew about the Bible.... :1422:
Ecclesiastes 10:2 A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left.

Thor Heyerdahl Says: “Our lack of knowledge about our own past is appalling.
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Glacier
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Re: Why do atheists claim that Daniel is a forgery?

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averagejoe wrote:Such as? Like you guys can't even carry a conversation about the BS you spew about the Bible.... :1422:

Atheists don't care about Daniel. They just know by faith that it's a forgery.
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Ptolemy Soter
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Re: Why do Atheists Claim that Daniel is a Forgery

Post by Ptolemy Soter »

Glacier wrote:Which empire? The Roman Empire? The one that came after most of it was written, and all of it was written before it had headed into decline?

Yes, the Roman Empire. The Roman Empire didn't really decline, it transformed. If what you're insinuating by "decline" is that the entire Bible was written before the long, downward spiral, and the Goths sacking Rome (?), then no, I don't necessarily agree that the entire Bible was written before then. It has been edited so many times, and who knows if historians and others have told the whole truth (whether by direct account or some other influence, and I mostly mean the New Testament), that we don't know for sure exactly how much of its content has been added or taken away since its inception.

I stopped caring about that damn book long ago, despite having studied it often and formerly being a hardcore Christian.
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cliffy1
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Re: Why do atheists claim that Daniel is a forgery?

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Glacier wrote:Atheists don't care about Daniel. They just know by faith that it's a forgery.

The OT was written while in exile in Babylon. It was based on a mix of oral traditions, Sumerian, Egyptian and Babylonian myths and texts. It is far from being an accurate historical document although there are some historically accurate statements, most of it is embellished myth from other cultures and modified for Rabbinical patriotism to convince the Jews to leave Babylon and to go home. This is particularly true of the Daniel narrative to convince the Jews that their belief in divine interference and their position as the chosen people. But if you want to believe in fairy tales, go right ahead. Just don't expect that people won't call you on your nonsense when you drag it out into the public domain and proclaim it to be the only truth.
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Re: Why do atheists claim that Daniel is a forgery?

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exactly . :skippingsheep:
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averagejoe
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Re: Why do atheists claim that Daniel is a forgery?

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cliffy1 wrote:The OT was written while in exile in Babylon. It was based on a mix of oral traditions, Sumerian, Egyptian and Babylonian myths and texts. It is far from being an accurate historical document although there are some historically accurate statements, most of it is embellished myth from other cultures and modified for Rabbinical patriotism to convince the Jews to leave Babylon and to go home. This is particularly true of the Daniel narrative to convince the Jews that their belief in divine interference and their position as the chosen people. But if you want to believe in fairy tales, go right ahead. Just don't expect that people won't call you on your nonsense when you drag it out into the public domain and proclaim it to be the only truth.


Give evidence of your claims...?

You say you have been studying this for decades. but give no proof? :D
Ecclesiastes 10:2 A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left.

Thor Heyerdahl Says: “Our lack of knowledge about our own past is appalling.
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averagejoe
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Re: Why do atheists claim that Daniel is a forgery?

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Cliffy1: The Bible was written history of the Israelite peoples. I think they know their history better than you do?
Ecclesiastes 10:2 A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left.

Thor Heyerdahl Says: “Our lack of knowledge about our own past is appalling.
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Ptolemy Soter
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Re: Why do atheists claim that Daniel is a forgery?

Post by Ptolemy Soter »

You're not listening.

For one, no one needs special credentials to study history. Unlike places like the Vatican archives, any civilian can access texts on history electronically or otherwise. There is no 'proof' required to say that. Secondly, read my post above. How can you trust information that has been around for so long, automatically? Civilians can access Jewish texts as well without the need for authorization or credentials.
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Glacier
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Re: Why do atheists claim that Daniel is a forgery?

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cliffy1 wrote:The OT was written while in exile in Babylon. It was based on a mix of oral traditions, Sumerian, Egyptian and Babylonian myths and texts. It is far from being an accurate historical document although there are some historically accurate statements, most of it is embellished myth from other cultures and modified for Rabbinical patriotism to convince the Jews to leave Babylon and to go home. This is particularly true of the Daniel narrative to convince the Jews that their belief in divine interference and their position as the chosen people. But if you want to believe in fairy tales, go right ahead. Just don't expect that people won't call you on your nonsense when you drag it out into the public domain and proclaim it to be the only truth.

I never said it was the only truth, so don't be silly. Truth comes from honest inquiry. There is certainly biblical references to Babylonian thought, eg. "an eye for an eye," but I can't think of a single example of Egyptian mythology in the Bible. Why do you keep saying that as if doing so somehow makes it true? Do you mind providing some sort of scholarly evidence to support your assertion? And no, the Zeitgeist movies don't count as scholarly.
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averagejoe
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Re: Why do atheists claim that Daniel is a forgery?

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For those who think the Romans wrote the Bible to control people....

Saint George is the patron Saint of England and among the most famous of Christian figures. Our earliest source, Eusebius of Caesarea, writing c. 322, tells of a soldier of noble birth who was put to death under Diocletian at Nicomedia on 23 April, 303, According to the apocryphal Acts of St George current in various versions in the Eastern Church from the fifth century, George held the rank of tribune in the Roman army and was beheaded by Diocletian for protesting against the Emperor's persecution of Christians. George rapidly became venerated throughout Christendom as an example of bravery in defence of the poor and the defenceless and of the Christian faith.
Ecclesiastes 10:2 A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left.

Thor Heyerdahl Says: “Our lack of knowledge about our own past is appalling.

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