Human / Religious origins

Is there a god? What is the meaning of life?
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Hmmm
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Re: Christianity

Post by Hmmm »

cliffy1 wrote:No, you are intentionally being vague and leaving it open to interpretation. I've done over 50 years of study on religions, history, archaeology and many other subjects, and there is no debate about the age of humans and civilizations. Why don't you just tell us what you are hiding and let us see if you know what you are hinting that you know.

ok, I'll make it clear. I believe the Earth is billions of years old as science is in 100% agreement on this.Man is around 7000 years old. Crazy people who feel the need to believe the Earth is 7000 years old are clearly wrong on this. They have misinterpreted the meaning of the word day in Genesis to mean 24 hour period, which it does not mean. Mankind in general, however, there is much debate on how old civilizations are.

The means of dating are flawed for many reason and as much as some would love to bank on them, we just don't know what conditions were like 1000's, 1,000,000's of years ago, or what other external factors have occurred and affected the planet at any given time. So methods to determine age cannot be trusted.

I prefer to look in museums where the dates are unassailable and not couched with the notoriously used words," most likely", or "it would seem", or any other couched words like that, that have no basis in 100% certainty. So I will stick with the Earth being as old as I said and humans being as old as I also said.

This is as clear as I'm willing to take the time. I already know its useless and most will read part of it and then reply with an assumption.
I thought you said your dog doesn't bite....That's not my dog.
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Hmmm
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Re: Human / Religious origins

Post by Hmmm »

Gixxer wrote:Hmmm

Care to explain Gobekli Tepe?

Ok, I have waisted my time on the worthless website link posted. Here is what your proof site said, that to mean screams, best guess.

All direct copy/pasted from the site.
The hypothesis here
It is also surmised
The planners and builders of Gobeklitepe still remain a big mystery
Archeologists believe
followed by zero reason given.
seems to be t


The entire site is full of conclusions with such language attached to them and there is not one and I mean not ONE actual date with any 100% proof mentioned or shown. This is a far cry from any proof. You may still choose to believe these things, but I feel its stupid to rely on such guess work as a basis for my beliefs.
I thought you said your dog doesn't bite....That's not my dog.
Farmmaa
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Re: Human / Religious origins

Post by Farmmaa »

You are entitled to believe whatever it is you want to believe.
Just because you don't happen to be satisfied with scientists and experts as to the age of humankind and civilization does not make it fact.
Referencing the bible also doesn't make anything fact and quite honestly, takes away any credibility you may think you show.
Dating humans according to Genesis ?? People just misunderstand what a day means in the bible....but, of course, you know for a fact...right ?
I don't suppose its possible that the men who wrote the bible simply had zero scientific knowledge of what the world was like before they came along 2,000 years ago ?!?

Completely dismissing anthropology because they can only estimate the age of certain objects is pretty small minded....but, hey, anything that backs up your beliefs and claims must be true.

Again, I'll stick with the experts.
Gixxer
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Re: Christianity

Post by Gixxer »

Hmmm wrote:If one were to study the flow of religions and teachings, it will become very clear which is the true religion. I'm being vague because its such a deep subject and one post cannot come to close to talking about it. Museums, archeology and ancient history hold the key. Human civilizations do in fact have a starting point. I will give the beginning point. Babylon.


What about Egypt, and the Pyramids, or China and the Great Wall of China?
Last edited by Gixxer on May 23rd, 2016, 11:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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zzontar
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Re: Christianity

Post by zzontar »

cliffy1 wrote: I've done over 50 years of study on religions, history, archaeology and many other subjects


50 years of studying religion... no wonder you want to share your beliefs. Makes me wonder why you'd say this
What I believe is my business. I really don't care what others believe or what they believe about my beliefs.


I believe your belief of believing you don't care about beliefs is unbelievable.
They say you can't believe everything they say.
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Hmmm
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Re: Human / Religious origins

Post by Hmmm »

Farmmaa wrote:You are entitled to believe whatever it is you want to believe.
Just because you don't happen to be satisfied with scientists and experts as to the age of humankind and civilization does not make it fact.
Referencing the bible also doesn't make anything fact and quite honestly, takes away any credibility you may think you show.

I know I write with clarity, so it has to be your comprehension skills. Why do you think I referenced the Bible? Did you give any thought at all? Did you just instantly conclude and dismiss? I will spell it out in simple form for you. Yes I'm condescending now, because its frustrating to have to respond in these situations.

I referenced the Bible because; The creationists who believe the Earth is 7000 years, use the Bible as the reason. They use the word used for day and take it as 24 hour period.

Now how can I possibly answer the question as to the why people feel the world is only 7000 years old, without referencing the Bible, or in this case the very source for these beliefs? Do you know any other way? Frankly, your lack of comprehension and understanding calls YOUR credibility into question.

Now I will stop with the condescending responses, if you and others care to take 30 sec. to try to understand what I'm clearly writing.
I thought you said your dog doesn't bite....That's not my dog.
Gixxer
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Re: Human / Religious origins

Post by Gixxer »

Mind blowing, is it possible, would religion agree of the possibility?

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Re: Human / Religious origins

Post by Farmmaa »

Hmmm wrote:I know I write with clarity, so it has to be your comprehension skills. Why do you think I referenced the Bible? Did you give any thought at all? Did you just instantly conclude and dismiss? I will spell it out in simple form for you. Yes I'm condescending now, because its frustrating to have to respond in these situations.

I referenced the Bible because; The creationists who believe the Earth is 7000 years, use the Bible as the reason. They use the word used for day and take it as 24 hour period.

Now how can I possibly answer the question as to the why people feel the world is only 7000 years old, without referencing the Bible, or in this case the very source for these beliefs? Do you know any other way? Frankly, your lack of comprehension and understanding calls YOUR credibility into question.

Now I will stop with the condescending responses, if you and others care to take 30 sec. to try to understand what I'm clearly writing.


Perhaps if EVERYONE has trouble comprehending what you're trying to say, you don't write with the clarity you think you do.

No one was questioning those who think the earth is only 7,000 years old...they are questioning YOUR claim that humans have only been on the earth for 7,000 years.
We are all very aware of why young earth theorists feel the way they do...but you have provided zero evidence to back up your outrageous claims, except to use examples from the bible to explain how no one else but you understands how god defines time.

You claim that human civilization begins with Babylon, but history and science clearly do not agree...but in your cryptic, condescending tone, you say that you can't possibly explain why you know this to be true....it just is.
Which is so much more convincing than those pesky scientific types who explain why, how, when and where.
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cliffy1
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Re: Christianity

Post by cliffy1 »

zzontar wrote:50 years of studying religion... no wonder you want to share your beliefs. Makes me wonder why you'd say this

I believe your belief of believing you don't care about beliefs is unbelievable.

That is your problem.

What are forums for if not to discuss stuff? One of my interests is to try to understand why people believe the way they do: human understanding. I am fascinated by those who believe the unbelievable.

Anyway, the subject is religious origins, so, getting back to it: cave drawings in Europe show that people had a sense of the divine, conducted rituals, ritualistically buried their dead etc. during the last ice age which ended over 12,000 years ago. It would seem that religion even predates civilizations. I say seems to because we are now acknowledging that civilizations that are now below sea level, which were flooded by glacier melt at the end of the ice age. With every new archaeological find, the dates of human occupation and the advent of human civilization are pushed farther and farther into the past. There are finds in the Americas that have been dated up 33,000 years old. Thinking that humans have only been here for 7000 years does not hold up to what is known and as we dig deeper we will find even more evidence that proves that assumption ridiculous.
Trying to get spiritual nourishment from a two thousand year old book is like trying to suck milk from the breast of a woman who has been dead that long.
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averagejoe
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Re: Christianity

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Gixxer wrote:China and the Great Wall of China?


The Great Wall of China was started in around 300 BC to keep out the Huns of Mongolia.......Huns had massive amount of strong and powerful horses and the had small group of small horses. The Chinese build the the wall as a defense against the Hun horses.

One answer down....

Image of Hun migration from Mesopotamia to Mongolia around 1000 BC. First recorded battle between Huns and the Chinese was 991 BC on the Ordos Bend on the Yellow River.

Image

Also the Gold rush to the Altai mountains in Mongolia in 650 BC helped the migration to the area from Mesopotamia.
Also migrating to this area were the Finns of Finland.

Huns and Finns move west after signing peace treaty with China in 216 AD in present location in today's Europe.

Image
Last edited by averagejoe on May 23rd, 2016, 1:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Ecclesiastes 10:2 A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left.

Thor Heyerdahl Says: “Our lack of knowledge about our own past is appalling.
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averagejoe
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Re: Christianity

Post by averagejoe »

cliffy1 wrote:Anyway, the subject is religious origins, so, getting back to it: cave drawings in Europe show that people had a sense of the divine, conducted rituals, ritualistically buried their dead


So if these caves that old, (12,000 years old) where would the massive population be? No birth control no warfare to kill the young men? Where are the cities to house the population from way back? Is there some kind of settlement around these caves? Proof please?
Ecclesiastes 10:2 A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left.

Thor Heyerdahl Says: “Our lack of knowledge about our own past is appalling.
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averagejoe
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Re: Human / Religious origins

Post by averagejoe »

Before 700 BC no one lived in eastern Europe according to the Russian History books and Greek historian Herodotus....

The Cimmerians (who became the Gauls and Celts) were the first European peoples to settle in the Ukraine and then after about 600 BC after fighting fellow Scythian tribes, massively migrated into Turkey and Europe up the Danube River and established the Hallstatt Empire.

Image

Image

Image
Ecclesiastes 10:2 A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left.

Thor Heyerdahl Says: “Our lack of knowledge about our own past is appalling.
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cliffy1
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Re: Christianity

Post by cliffy1 »

averagejoe wrote:So if these caves that old, (12,000 years old) where would the massive population be? No birth control no warfare to kill the young men? Where are the cities to house the population from way back? Is there some kind of settlement around these caves? Proof please?

Silly question: 12,000 years ago Europe was still a harsh place to live and the population was small because resources were scarce. Tribal people lived in small bands, sometimes migratory in search of new food supply.
Trying to get spiritual nourishment from a two thousand year old book is like trying to suck milk from the breast of a woman who has been dead that long.
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maryjane48
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Re: Human / Religious origins

Post by maryjane48 »

lmao you serious joe ? you dnt think humans are more than 7000 years old ? wow im stunned i guess the 3 million year old lucy is what ? made of plastic ?
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averagejoe
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Re: Christianity

Post by averagejoe »

cliffy1 wrote: Silly question: 12,000 years ago Europe was still a harsh place to live and the population was small because resources were scarce. Tribal people lived in small bands, sometimes migratory in search of new food supply.


Back it up.....12,000 years is a lot of time to produce a population....

North America has how many people since 1492....just say Canada 35,000,000, U.S. 335,000,000 and Mexico 122,000,000todays population is around total....just under 5000,000,000

That's just 500 years.

Proof please.....
Ecclesiastes 10:2 A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left.

Thor Heyerdahl Says: “Our lack of knowledge about our own past is appalling.

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