We are all born Atheists

Is there a god? What is the meaning of life?
youjustcomplain
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Re: We are all born Atheists

Post by youjustcomplain »

fluffy wrote:Which, once upon a time, would have made you an agnostic. These modifications to the traditional definition of atheism are emanating largely from atheists themselves, and I'm wondering why. Negative atheists, positive atheists, implicit atheists, explicit atheists, the list goes on. There seem to be as many flavours of atheists as there are christians.


It's possible there are as many flavours of Atheists as there are of Christians. When I read Atheists smear their insulting tone towards Christians, (anyone of faith really), I dislike them as much as anyone else. They're as atheist as I am, and yet, they're very different.

Maybe once upon a time that would have made me an agnostic. Doesn't change how I am today. :)
youjustcomplain
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Re: We are all born Atheists

Post by youjustcomplain »

Poindexter wrote:It does boil down to opinion at this point since as you said can't prove either side of the debate definitively. Reminds me of a conversation I had 30 years ago with this crazy guy that used to walked around New West carrying a sign saying the end of times is coming soon. That god was going to judge us all and only the righteous would be called to paradise. I said to him one day that he had it all wrong, it is humans that hold all the power, not god. God would not exist if humans didn't believe and it's us who could pull the plug on him . not the other way around. His eyes rolled back in his head for a few seconds and he walked away. So far neither of us were right, god hasn't shown up despite the 7 signs of the apocalypse arriving every year and mankind still hasn't pulled the plug on the almighty. Not sure who will end up being right in the long run but at 50 years of age I doubt I'll be around for either so might as well just get on with life, be kind to others and simply make the most of it. Whether he exists or not is irrelevant since there's a good chance if he does exist all religions have it wrong and following any of them would work against me at the pearly gates.


I think you had it right when you said this was about the definition of the word "atheist". But the quote above is far more about whether god exists which is not relevant to whether an atheist believes in god, doesn't believe in god or believes there is no god.
cutter7
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Re: We are all born Atheists

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Nomaster wrote:We’re all born atheists. Religions are taught depending on the location and era in which you are raised. Being born in the U.S. in 1955 does not make you right, it most likely just makes you a Christian. That’s no better or worse than the person born in Tibet in 1955, who proudly worships the Dalai Lama. Born in India in 1955- you are most likely a HIndu. Born in a slightly different part of India, say the Punjab region, then you are a Sikh. Were you born in Egypt to Morocco in the North Of the African continent- then you are most likely a Muslim.


I was born in 1966 Had I been born in the same location to the same ethnicity in 966 - I would have undoubtedly been a Nordic Pagan.

The "truth" is not based on location. That's just silly.

We are all born Atheists and then our families or our cultures 'tell us the truth' based on their biases.


how can we be born atheists if we are not taught religion? we are born and we are taught. how you choose to educate yourself is up to you.
youjustcomplain
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Re: We are all born Atheists

Post by youjustcomplain »

cutter7 wrote:how can we be born atheists if we are not taught religion? we are born and we are taught. how you choose to educate yourself is up to you.


I don't follow your question. I know it was asked in response to Nomaster's comment, but I just don't understand the question.

Do you believe that a fairy of some sort sneaks into childrens bedroom and steals their children teeth out from under the pillow and replaces it with money? Did you have to be taught that fable in order to not believe it? The day I was born, I didn't believe that happened.
I didn't need to believe it didn't happen to remain atoothfairyist.
All I needed was to not believe in it, which doesn't require having been taught it.


While I was a child, I believed in it for a while because there was some "proof" that it was real. I'd go to bed at night with tooth under pillow and the next morning, a quarter is there. To a childs mind, this is proof. As an adult, we all know it's made up to make kids feel good.
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Necro
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Re: We are all born Atheists

Post by Necro »

Without the introduction of religion atheism cannot exist, simple.

So no, we cannot be born atheist, as atheism is defined by a lack of belief in god(s), and is representative of a conscious choice.
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youjustcomplain
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Re: We are all born Atheists

Post by youjustcomplain »

Necro wrote:Without the introduction of religion atheism cannot exist, simple.

So no, we cannot be born atheist, as atheism is defined by a lack of belief in god(s), and is representative of a conscious choice.


No. If god was never invented by humans, then I'd still not believe in a god. We'd not have the concept of god for me to believe or not believe in, but the fact remains; I'd still not believe in it.

It does not require a conscious choice.

You could argue that to be an anti-theist you first need to have heard of a god to believe doesn't exist.
OREZ
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Re: We are all born Atheists

Post by OREZ »

youjustcomplain wrote:
No. If god was never invented by humans, then I'd still not believe in a god. We'd not have the concept of god for me to believe or not believe in, but the fact remains; I'd still not believe in it.

It does not require a conscious choice.



Your comment begins with the assumption that God was created by humans which you have no way of knowing and no way of proving.

Your view was a conscious choice.
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fluffy
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Re: We are all born Atheists

Post by fluffy »

youjustcomplain wrote:It's possible there are as many flavours of Atheists as there are of Christians.


More than possible I'd think, there are all sorts of Gods not to believe in.
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youjustcomplain
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Re: We are all born Atheists

Post by youjustcomplain »

OREZ wrote:Your comment begins with the assumption that God was created by humans which you have no way of knowing and no way of proving.

Your view was a conscious choice.


My comment begins with, but doesn't rely on, the fact that humans created god and not the other way around. Regardless, you feel god created us and I feel just the opposite. This actually has nothing to do with whether we are born believing or not believing in him.
Surely you aren't suggesting that babies are both knowing about god are you?

Let me try another angle.
Do you believe that superman is real? Like, the guy who came from Krypton who can shoot lasers from his eyes and reverse our orbit to send us back in time? that guy? I'll make the assumption that you realize that Superman is a fantasy, and nothing more.
The day your great grandparents were born, did they believe Superman was real? I'm talking about the moment they left the birth canal. If no, then would it be safe to say that they didn't believe in Superman? They need not know what Superman is. And I'm not going as far as to say that they believed Superman wasn't real. Just that they didn't start out believing. I say this to try an establish a default position of not believing, (not disbelieving).
youjustcomplain
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Re: We are all born Atheists

Post by youjustcomplain »

fluffy wrote:More than possible I'd think, there are all sorts of Gods not to believe in.


Fair point.

I think most atheists do a [SELECT ALL] then click the [I DO NOT BELIEVE] box that comes up. :)
OREZ
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Re: We are all born Atheists

Post by OREZ »

Any time people start talking about superman and/or unicorns, spaghetti monsters, or the tooth fairy, I just roll my eyes and click the little 'X' at the top of my screen.
"We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true."
youjustcomplain
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Re: We are all born Atheists

Post by youjustcomplain »

OREZ wrote:Any time people start talking about superman and/or unicorns, spaghetti monsters, or the tooth fairy, I just roll my eyes and click the little 'X' at the top of my screen.


Typically, when most people start talking about their gods, I do the same. This thread and a few others caught my interest.
I'm just not sure why you feel that superman is less plausible than the god you believe does exist. I think it's a fair, if slightly insulting, question...
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Glacier
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Re: We are all born Atheists

Post by Glacier »

OREZ wrote:Any time people start talking about superman and/or unicorns, spaghetti monsters, or the tooth fairy, I just roll my eyes and click the little 'X' at the top of my screen.

Yup, and couple that with the use of the word "fact" to describe the origins of God as a human invention is ironic to say the least, especially when the whole premise of being skeptical about God is lack of concrete facts.
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Farmmaa
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Re: We are all born Atheists

Post by Farmmaa »

Glacier wrote:Yup, and couple that with the use of the word "fact" to describe the origins of God as a human invention is ironic to say the least, especially when the whole premise of being skeptical about God is lack of concrete facts.


Atheists are not 'skeptical' about god....and it has been pointed out many times over that our lack of belief isn't simply about a lack of 'facts'.

It is also perfectly acceptable for those who view gods as mythical beings to compare them to other mythical beings.
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fluffy
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Re: We are all born Atheists

Post by fluffy »

OREZ wrote:Any time people start talking about superman and/or unicorns, spaghetti monsters, or the tooth fairy, I just roll my eyes and click the little 'X' at the top of my screen.


youjustcomplain wrote:Typically, when most people start talking about their gods, I do the same.


I've found that as the more you move toward the polar extremes of fundamentalist believer and hard-core atheist minds do tend to close up and vision narrows accordingly. Isn't taking a firm stance one way or the other on something so firmly entrenched in the unknowable a bit of a folly in itself?
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