We are all born Atheists

Is there a god? What is the meaning of life?
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Bsuds
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Re: We are all born Atheists

Post by Bsuds »

Glacier wrote: That's why you'd prefer a religion with good looks over a religion with good arguments.


Or neither...just say no.
One day you will find someone who is obsessed with you.
It will most likely be a Dog, but it is what it is.
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fluffy
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Re: We are all born Atheists

Post by fluffy »

Nomaster wrote:Try explaining why you, presumably, never worship Thor or Zeus or Shango or any other culture's main diety.


I don't worship any deity, nor am I an atheist. That's the way I was born. "Atheist" is a label adopted later in life by those who wish to set themselves apart from theists, a choosing of sides so to speak. At birth there is no allegiance to either side thus no requirement to differentiate between the two. Infancy is a state of unknowing, and the term "atheist" implies knowledge of what the label entails. If you want to argue vagaries of meaning then have at it, but in my mind the suggestion that we are born atheist is totally without basis in reality.

Is it possible perhaps, that this thread was initiated as an attempt to stir the pot in a debate that's been endlessly hashed and rehashed ?
"The cleverest ruse of the Devil is to persuade you he does not exist."
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Farmmaa
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Re: We are all born Atheists

Post by Farmmaa »

fluffy wrote:
I don't worship any deity, nor am I an atheist. That's the way I was born. "Atheist" is a label adopted later in life by those who wish to set themselves apart from theists, a choosing of sides so to speak. At birth there is no allegiance to either side thus no requirement to differentiate between the two. Infancy is a state of unknowing, and the term "atheist" implies knowledge of what the label entails. If you want to argue vagaries of meaning then have at it, but in my mind the suggestion that we are born atheist is totally without basis in reality.

Is it possible perhaps, that this thread was initiated as an attempt to stir the pot in a debate that's been endlessly hashed and rehashed ?


You are basing your argument on your personal opinion of what being an atheist means...that and a definition from Urban dictionary.
Oxford and other true dictionaries also include those who have no knowledge of gods.
One does not need to even know what the word atheist is to lack a belief in gods.

So, your opinion differs from the opinion of others based on our definition of atheist - that does not make your opinion correct and ours without basis in reality.
It simply makes it your opinion. Nothing more, nothing less.

As for children growing up following their parent's political views as well...I don't know how all of you were raised, but I know for darned sure that I was not baptised or christened into a political party as an infant. Nor did I attend weekly childhood lessons about politics...or sing songs about political leaders.
It is never insinuated that you won't go to 'heaven' if you don't follow the right political party
OREZ
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Re: We are all born Atheists

Post by OREZ »

fluffy wrote:
Is it possible perhaps, that this thread was initiated as an attempt to stir the pot in a debate that's been endlessly hashed and rehashed ?

That seems to be the motivation just about every time an atheist starts a thread, although pretending to want to discuss something more specific.
"We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true."
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Re: We are all born Atheists

Post by Farmmaa »

OREZ wrote:That seems to be the motivation just about every time an atheist starts a thread, although pretending to want to discuss something more specific.

*removed*
Last edited by oneh2obabe on Aug 9th, 2016, 2:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Personal attack.
beehands
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Re: We are all born Atheists

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we are all born memers
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fluffy
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Re: We are all born Atheists

Post by fluffy »

Farmmaa wrote:You are basing your argument on your personal opinion of what being an atheist means...that and a definition from Urban dictionary.
Oxford and other true dictionaries also include those who have no knowledge of gods.
One does not need to even know what the word atheist is to lack a belief in god.


The cut and paste from Urban Dictionary was given as an illustration to just the sort of discussion we are having here. I challenge you to supply any definition which does not include words like "denial", "rejection" or "disbelief". Your whole argument is based on taking the definition of atheism out of context, and your motivation is highly suspect.

Would anyone with no knowledge at all of gods identify themselves as "atheist"? I think not. That in itself should indicate that the traditional use of the "atheist" label is not to indicate lack of knowledge on the subject, but to express an active rejection of the concept of higher powers, and this is not something a newborn is capable of.
"The cleverest ruse of the Devil is to persuade you he does not exist."
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fluffy
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Re: We are all born Atheists

Post by fluffy »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implicit_and_explicit_atheism

Some interesting reading here on the topic of Implicit and Explicit Atheism, also known as Negative and Positive Atheism or Strong and Weak Atheism.

The "atheism light" concepts are a relatively recent arrival to the debate, moving away from outright denial and/or rejection of belief in supernatural beings toward a less firm stance on their actual existence. This, to me at least, has always been more of an agnostic view, a view characterized by a lack of committment to either side of the question. Older dictionaries were clear in their definitions that atheism involved the active denial of any supernatural deities, but those writings often come from times when religious influence was much stronger, and the lines between church and state were much blurrier.

Still, dictionary definitions aside, isn't the essence of atheism summed up in "I don't believe in God" ? Or are we going to keep arguing that "lack of belief" doesn't necessarily mean "disbelief" ?
"The cleverest ruse of the Devil is to persuade you he does not exist."
- Charles Baudelaire, 1864
Farmmaa
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Re: We are all born Atheists

Post by Farmmaa »

fluffy wrote:
The cut and paste from Urban Dictionary was given as an illustration to just the sort of discussion we are having here. I challenge you to supply any definition which does not include words like "denial", "rejection" or "disbelief". Your whole argument is based on taking the definition of atheism out of context, and your motivation is highly suspect.

Would anyone with no knowledge at all of gods identify themselves as "atheist"? I think not. That in itself should indicate that the traditional use of the "atheist" label is not to indicate lack of knowledge on the subject, but to express an active rejection of the concept of higher powers, and this is not something a newborn is capable of.


I have actually supplied several definitions that do not include the words denial, rejection or disbelief.
You chose to dismiss them because they do not fit your definition of the word.

My motivation is suspect ?
Good grief.
My only 'motive', if there is one, is for people to understand that not all atheists fit the same radical, activist mold that so many of you seem to associate with the word.
We, as atheists, are perfectly capable of defining who we are and what we think and believe...thanks.

Atheism is usually defined incorrectly as a belief system. Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods

https://www.atheists.org/activism/resou ... is-atheism

Atheism is, in the broadest sense, the absence of belief in the existence of deities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

An atheist lacks faith in God, believes there is no god, or lacks awareness of gods.

http://grammarist.com/usage/agnostic-atheist/

A person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods:

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/defin ... sh/atheist
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fluffy
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Re: We are all born Atheists

Post by fluffy »

Hey, you are altering and cherry-picking those quotes to support your own agenda. Would you categorize that as dishonest, or simply a lack of honesty? :)

In any event, the only one of those links you supplied that meets my earlier challenge is the one from atheists.org, and it's debateable whether even that one meets the challenge. It is so blatantly biased in its wording as to be inadmissible as credible evidence.
Last edited by fluffy on Aug 9th, 2016, 7:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
"The cleverest ruse of the Devil is to persuade you he does not exist."
- Charles Baudelaire, 1864
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kibbs
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Re: We are all born Atheists

Post by kibbs »

Id like to think we are all born human and thats about all . Truth is we are all born into and tend to adopt a culture be that religious or not. To claim we are all born atheists is a bit far fetched. I believe we are of mind, body and spirit and that spiritual awareness develops later in people and some never . How you practice or celebrate spirituality is no ones business but your own. Atheists get my sympathy for their lack of personal eternal awareness as we all take our own time. The problem with most of religion today is that they lack a way to teach spiritual awareness and maturity and only promote it through misunderstood ancient ritual If you believe that we are only of mind and body then I can not argue with you and hope you will add the third to your life because that is what I beleive the world is lacking . Not immature religious rederek but mature spiritual connetivity. Peace
Peace be with you.
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fluffy
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Re: We are all born Atheists

Post by fluffy »

That's the meat of it kibbs. In something where there are no clear goal posts anyone can score a touchdown. The aim is to find something we are each personally comfortable with and at the same time allow others to do the same for themselves, even if it is totally different from ours.
"The cleverest ruse of the Devil is to persuade you he does not exist."
- Charles Baudelaire, 1864
OREZ
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Re: We are all born Atheists

Post by OREZ »

Farmmaa wrote:My only 'motive', if there is one, is for people to understand that not all atheists fit the same radical, activist mold that so many of you seem to associate with the word.
We, as atheists, are perfectly capable of defining who we are and what we think and believe...thanks.


So essentially the word has become somewhat meaningless and everyone gets to have their own definition?
"We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true."
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Re: We are all born Atheists

Post by Nomaster »

OREZ wrote:So essentially the word has become somewhat meaningless and everyone gets to have their own definition?



Like Christians?
From radical Pro-Choice, Social Justice Catholic nuns to the hypocrites who support the Duggans,Abortion Clinic Bombers, Alabama Racist Churches, etc.
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Re: We are all born Atheists

Post by Nomaster »

My mother went to the South in the 1950's to a Bible College in order to fulfill her dream of being a missionary.

She came back to Canada disillusioned because she met hate-filled bigots who think they're True Christians.
Last edited by Nomaster on Aug 9th, 2016, 10:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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