Creationism = Science Illiteracy

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youjustcomplain
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Re: Creationism = Science Illiteracy

Post by youjustcomplain »

Nomaster wrote:Belief that a supernatural claim explains nature or the universe is anti science. Period.

How did this occur? Let me consult my ancient holy book.


I don't think it's anti science. It just is a belief not founded in science.
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Re: Creationism = Science Illiteracy

Post by Nomaster »

What does that actually mean?So it's a belief founded in belief.

How Science discovers things.

How Believers discover things.
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zzontar
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Re: Creationism = Science Illiteracy

Post by zzontar »

youjustcomplain wrote:But, that stuff aside, would it be fallible to think it was left there by aliens? Strange wording, but it would be strange for a scientist to conclude that a life form, other than from earth, could be responsible since they haven't proved alien life exists.

This is NOT to say that if we don't think aliens did it, and we don't know if we did it, that it must have been done by god though.


I mentioned machinery that was hundreds of years old. We never had the technology to go there hundreds of years ago, but as the machine would have intelligent design, scientists would have no choice but to theorize it was put there by a being or beings of which we have no proof of existence. Would you agree with this theory?
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youjustcomplain
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Re: Creationism = Science Illiteracy

Post by youjustcomplain »

zzontar wrote:I mentioned machinery that was hundreds of years old.


Oh, sorry, I forgot about the hundreds of years ago part.

So, we would know:
machinery was hundreds of years old
machinery was built by an intelligence

zzontar wrote:We never had the technology to go there hundreds of years ago, but as the machine would have intelligent design, scientists would have no choice but to theorize it was put there by a being or beings of which we have no proof of existence. Would you agree with this theory?


I can't speak for scientists, as I'm not one, but I would say that they might explore the possibility that the machinery was built on earth and transported there more recently. If that could somehow to ruled out as a possibility, then I think they'd question the authenticity of the way it was dated as being hundreds of years old, especially since things would decay at a much different rate in space, on the moon, than it would here on earth.
I don't think scientists would have no choice but to think it was put there by beings which they have no evidence for the existence of. Afterall, if these relics were proved to not be from earth and not created by humans, then it would be evidence for the existence of aliens, or possibly a god.

I'm interested to see where you're going with this.
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Necro
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Re: Creationism = Science Illiteracy

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zzontar wrote: I mentioned machinery that was hundreds of years old. We never had the technology to go there hundreds of years ago, but as the machine would have intelligent design, scientists would have no choice but to theorize it was put there by a being or beings of which we have no proof of existence. Would you agree with this theory?


pretty sure this nonsense belongs in a conspiracy thread.
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Necro
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Re: Creationism = Science Illiteracy

Post by Necro »

does creationism = science illiteracy?

of course it does.

roughly 5 billion humans believe our earth was created by a "god", magically, as in snap your fingers and VIOLLA!, earth and heaven.

less than .00005% of those same 5 billion humans are scientists, even less than that can explain the Jurassic Period.

(actually none can)

Yeah Science!
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zzontar
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Re: Creationism = Science Illiteracy

Post by zzontar »

youjustcomplain wrote:I can't speak for scientists, as I'm not one, but I would say that they might explore the possibility that the machinery was built on earth and transported there more recently. If that could somehow to ruled out as a possibility, then I think they'd question the authenticity of the way it was dated as being hundreds of years old, especially since things would decay at a much different rate in space, on the moon, than it would here on earth.
I don't think scientists would have no choice but to think it was put there by beings which they have no evidence for the existence of. Afterall, if these relics were proved to not be from earth and not created by humans, then it would be evidence for the existence of aliens, or possibly a god.

I'm interested to see where you're going with this.


Many atheists believe an unproven being(s) could be responsible for the intelligent design of something mechanical, yet dismiss the idea an unproven being could be responsible for the intelligent design of something biological.... interesting.
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Re: Creationism = Science Illiteracy

Post by JLives »

zzontar wrote:Many atheists believe an unproven being(s) could be responsible for the intelligent design of something mechanical, yet dismiss the idea an unproven being could be responsible for the intelligent design of something biological.... interesting.


Zero atheists believe that. Atheists do not believe in deities, creators or intelligent design.
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youjustcomplain
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Re: Creationism = Science Illiteracy

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zzontar wrote:Many atheists believe an unproven being(s) could be responsible for the intelligent design of something mechanical, yet dismiss the idea an unproven being could be responsible for the intelligent design of something biological.... interesting.


Sorry, the wording is a bit clunky. Are you saying:
Many atheists believe aliens (no evidence for them yet) would be responsible for the machinery, but they would not believe in a god having done it?

If that is what you're saying, then you're somewhat right.
If human involvement in said machinery could somehow to be ruled out, then another theory would come forward. Alien or a God theory.
I have no reason to believe there isn't life, beyond earth, in the universe. So, if we found machinery on "the dark side of the moon", that was proved to not be human, I would not conclude anything, but I would suspect it was alien.

You doubt you could find an atheist alive, or dead, who would sooner accept god than the possibility that we are not alone in the universe.
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Re: Creationism = Science Illiteracy

Post by is winter over »

youjustcomplain wrote:Sorry, the wording is a bit clunky. Are you saying:
Many atheists believe aliens (no evidence for them yet) would be responsible for the machinery, but they would not believe in a god having done it?

If that is what you're saying, then you're somewhat right.
If human involvement in said machinery could somehow to be ruled out, then another theory would come forward. Alien or a God theory.
I have no reason to believe there isn't life, beyond earth, in the universe. So, if we found machinery on "the dark side of the moon", that was proved to not be human, I would not conclude anything, but I would suspect it was alien.

You doubt you could find an atheist alive, or dead, who would sooner accept god than the possibility that we are not alone in the universe.


How could you rule out that it is human made, there is also the possibility of time travel, or human error in determining that the machinery is not human in origin, or some otherexplination that I or you have not thought of. The best the people investigating the origin of the machinery could say is "we dont know at this time". Even "if" you could rule out human involvment, until we find evidence that aliens exist or have existed or that a god exists or machine building pixies exist the best we could say is "we dont know".
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Re: Creationism = Science Illiteracy

Post by zzontar »

is winter over wrote: Even "if" you could rule out human involvment, until we find evidence that aliens exist or have existed or that a god exists or machine building pixies exist the best we could say is "we dont know".


We could also say a being(s) much more advanced than us exists with no proof.
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youjustcomplain
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Re: Creationism = Science Illiteracy

Post by youjustcomplain »

is winter over wrote:How could you rule out that it is human made, there is also the possibility of time travel, or human error in determining that the machinery is not human in origin, or some otherexplination that I or you have not thought of. The best the people investigating the origin of the machinery could say is "we dont know at this time". Even "if" you could rule out human involvment, until we find evidence that aliens exist or have existed or that a god exists or machine building pixies exist the best we could say is "we dont know".


Absolutely agree. I did make a point of saying: "If human involvement in said machinery could somehow to be ruled out,..." Because we wouldn't be able to rule out human involvement, but I wanted to get to where zzontar was leading me. :)
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Re: Creationism = Science Illiteracy

Post by youjustcomplain »

zzontar wrote:We could also say a being(s) much more advanced than us exists with no proof.


Again, if somehow, it could be proved that humans didn't do it, then I'd be okay with speculating that something else unknown did it.
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Re: Creationism = Science Illiteracy

Post by zzontar »

JLives wrote:Zero atheists believe that. Atheists do not believe in deities, creators or intelligent design.


https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/mo ... ove-aliens

Atheists reject the magical world. No God. No angels and demons. No miracles. And so on. The general position of what is often referred to as the New Atheist movement is that atheists approach life through logic and empirical evidence (science) whereas religious people rely on faith and feelings. Many atheists would argue that they do not believe in something unless there is a good reason for doing so. But is this true?

I recently started a program of research to answer this and related questions concerning the magical lives of atheists. Atheists explicitly reject religion but are they really not magical thinkers? For this post, I am going to focus on the topic of intelligent alien life. Atheists may not believe in God, but they seem particularly susceptible to believing that intelligent alien life has visited our planet despite there being no compelling evidence to hold such a belief.


On a side note, as far ahead as we are in biology, an alien civilization a million years more advanced would most likely be able to accomplish what might be viewed as God-like and be responsible for their own intelligent designs.
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Re: Creationism = Science Illiteracy

Post by Farmmaa »

Zzontar - I'm not sure exactly why you feel the need to divert every thread, no matter the actual topic, into some twisted conspiracy theory that Atheists believe in everything 'unexplained' or 'mythical'...except god.

So, once again, the only thing atheists have in common is their lack of belief in gods.

Do some atheists believe that there is intelligent life in the universe besides humans on a tiny spec called earth ?
Of course. It's rather narcissistic to think otherwise.

Do some religious people believe in other intelligent life forms ? Of course.

Because - it really has nothing whatsoever to do with religion or gods.

Do some people, no matter what their stance on gods, believe that aliens are gods or god-like ?
Perhaps...but most can make that distinction quite easily.

Are there aliens who have the technology to create lifeforms?
The only answer to that is....no one can possibly know the answer to that....but again, it would be rather narcissistic to believe that we are the most intelligent or advanced life forms in the entire universe - and even we can 'create' life-forms through science.

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