Why do you believe?

Is there a god? What is the meaning of life?
youjustcomplain
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Re: Why do you believe?

Post by youjustcomplain »

capleton wrote:Tinkerbell is exactly like god, the fact that both were created by the imaginations of man is pretty clear. So no I can not tell the difference the 3. People imagine all sorts of nonsensical things and declare them to be true, look at Psychiatric Wards, there are plenty of Jesus's and Messiahs there.
I could probably create a religion about Tinkerbell and at least gain a few converts if I was charismatic enough. Heck I bet if I buried a Harry Potter book somewhere and say in 400 years someone dug it up, they could probably make a religion about it because people are so naive, they'll believe in old thing that is written down. I don't have to provide evidence because I'm not making any claim, but religonists assert that a magic sky wizard exists so the the burden of proof is on them which they never provide. The Philosophical Burden of proof is pretty basic 101 logic.
I know from basic observation and history that people make up *bleep* stories all the time and I don't need to prove them wrong, they have to prove that they are right.You seem to blame atheists for everything, you just don't like I have strong opinions and am willing to challenge to believers who have been bullying and killing heathens for nearly 2000 years, so why wouldn't atheists not insult the religious? I don't even talk to the religious much, only when they approach me and try to sell to me their snake oil do I challenge them. They can never prove their claims and I think its absolutely hilarious, so yup the Burden of Proof is completely on the Theist.
I've met several intelligent Jewish and Pagans who didn't try to convert me or try to insist their religion is reality but every time I time talk to a Christian or Muslim and say I don't believe, they go absolutely berserk, so yes I will keep insulting the religious and I will definitely keep blaspheming.


You don't have to provide evidence IF you're not making any claims. But you are making claims. Lots of them. See a few I bolded above.
If a theist comes to you and tells you god exists, it's on them to provide supporting evidence. I fully agree. As soon as you declare that god is made up by man, you are making a counter claim, and I'm sorry to say, you need evidence to support your hypothesis too !

You think I blame everything on atheists? Really? Where have I blamed atheists ? I am an atheist. I have strong opinions too. But the opinions I have, that might cause anguish to others, are kept to my self. What do I have to gain from offending someone or hurting someones feelings?

Lets say you go to a funeral and someone says that "god is looking over his soul". Do you jump up and demand they retract their comment? Do you tell them they need to prove their god first? Of course not. You have tact. You realize that would do nothing to help anyone. So, you too, can hold back insulting comments towards the religious. Strong opinions or otherwise. Yet you're here stating that there is no difference between Tinkerbell and "God", then go on to compare believers to people in mental institutions.

I'm curious where you find these Christians and Muslims who go berserk when you tell them you don't believe. I've spoken to probably hundreds of people in my life about my lack of faith relative to theirs. Both sides are equally interested in the others opinion. I've never had anyone go berserk on me about it. Maybe it's your approach that rubs people the wrong way? That or it was a fictitious anecdote.
capleton
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Re: Why do you believe?

Post by capleton »

youjustcomplain wrote:
capleton wrote:Tinkerbell is exactly like god, the fact that both were created by the imaginations of man is pretty clear. So no I can not tell the difference the 3. People imagine all sorts of nonsensical things and declare them to be true, look at Psychiatric Wards, there are plenty of Jesus's and Messiahs there.
I could probably create a religion about Tinkerbell and at least gain a few converts if I was charismatic enough. Heck I bet if I buried a Harry Potter book somewhere and say in 400 years someone dug it up, they could probably make a religion about it because people are so naive, they'll believe in old thing that is written down. I don't have to provide evidence because I'm not making any claim, but religonists assert that a magic sky wizard exists so the the burden of proof is on them which they never provide. The Philosophical Burden of proof is pretty basic 101 logic.
I know from basic observation and history that people make up *bleep* stories all the time and I don't need to prove them wrong, they have to prove that they are right.You seem to blame atheists for everything, you just don't like I have strong opinions and am willing to challenge to believers who have been bullying and killing heathens for nearly 2000 years, so why wouldn't atheists not insult the religious? I don't even talk to the religious much, only when they approach me and try to sell to me their snake oil do I challenge them. They can never prove their claims and I think its absolutely hilarious, so yup the Burden of Proof is completely on the Theist.
I've met several intelligent Jewish and Pagans who didn't try to convert me or try to insist their religion is reality but every time I time talk to a Christian or Muslim and say I don't believe, they go absolutely berserk, so yes I will keep insulting the religious and I will definitely keep blaspheming.


You don't have to provide evidence IF you're not making any claims. But you are making claims. Lots of them. See a few I bolded above.
If a theist comes to you and tells you god exists, it's on them to provide supporting evidence. I fully agree. As soon as you declare that god is made up by man, you are making a counter claim, and I'm sorry to say, you need evidence to support your hypothesis too !

You think I blame everything on atheists? Really? Where have I blamed atheists ? I am an atheist. I have strong opinions too. But the opinions I have, that might cause anguish to others, are kept to my self. What do I have to gain from offending someone or hurting someones feelings?

Lets say you go to a funeral and someone says that "god is looking over his soul". Do you jump up and demand they retract their comment? Do you tell them they need to prove their god first? Of course not. You have tact. You realize that would do nothing to help anyone. So, you too, can hold back insulting comments towards the religious. Strong opinions or otherwise. Yet you're here stating that there is no difference between Tinkerbell and "God", then go on to compare believers to people in mental institutions.

I'm curious where you find these Christians and Muslims who go berserk when you tell them you don't believe. I've spoken to probably hundreds of people in my life about my lack of faith relative to theirs. Both sides are equally interested in the others opinion. I've never had anyone go berserk on me about it. Maybe it's your approach that rubs people the wrong way? That or it was a fictitious anecdote.


Are you saying that everything that someone declares should be true should be taken seriously? that is hilarious. I fully disagree. The claims of humans should only be taken seriously when it has actual evidence like science and religious mania is a serious psychiatric order by the way. Haven't you heard of those news stories where moms kill their kids because "god" told the to. There are many examples of that. Want some? Yeah people do believe whatever is written down, people blindly believe what their pastors and imams say because it is written in the scriptures, hell you got Scientologists believing what the con artist Hubbard because it is written down.
I don't see you refuting my claims. So which of the 4000 gods that people have named should be taken seriously?. Humans have imagined ghosts, demons, centaurs, fairies, giants and numerous other imaginary beings and creatures. So how exactly are the gods different? The Bible, Quran and other religious scripture are nothing but bold empty claims that should be definitely be doubted.
I just see you blaming atheists for being "insulting" while ignoring the numerous atrocities that Christians and Muslims have done in the past and are still doing and ignoring things that I have said like certain members here have defended slavery and genocide because the Bible says it is alright.
I wouldn't kill anyone who believed in God in the name of atheism but many of the fanatical monotheistic that I have met would certainly would if the voices in their head or their pastor/Iman told them to and I seriously doubt that you talked to hundreds. Maybe they go berserk because I ask them for evidence for god which they can never provide besides "the Bible says so" which isn't evidence at all and I just don't believe a word that they say.
youjustcomplain
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Re: Why do you believe?

Post by youjustcomplain »

capleton wrote:Are you saying that everything that someone declares should be true should be taken seriously? that is hilarious. I fully disagree.

Strawman. This is why I said that I didn't think you were interested in an honest conversation. Here you are, again, making things up just to defeat it.

capleton wrote:Haven't you heard of those news stories where moms kill their kids because "god" told the to. There are many examples of that.

Sure. I've heard all sorts of awful things that people do. Look, you don't believe in god; nor do I. So we can both agree that if the woman killed her kids because God told her to, that she is deranged. That has nothing to do with god though. God doesn't exist to us, so we can't blame her god for her actions. She had a mental disorder before she did what she did and she likely still does.

Flip that anecdotal story around though. Lets say she kills her kids because the rock in her garden talks to her. No faith mentioned. Are rocks evil? What if she was so upset that no god would talk to her so she killed her kids, do we then blame the lack of god? The problem is with the person, not the god we don't believe in.

capleton wrote:I don't see you refuting my claims. So which of the 4000 gods that people have named should be taken seriously?.

Why would I bother? Why would I even try? I also don't believe in the same gods you don't believe in. But which should be taken seriously? Anything with the ability to influence peoples behaviors should be taken seriously. Doesn't mean you have to believe those things are infinite and worthy or worship and it doesn't even mean they exist, but if they have the power to influence people the way the "gods" have, then that does need to be taken seriously.

capleton wrote:I just see you blaming atheists for being "insulting" while ignoring the numerous atrocities that Christians and Muslims have done in the past and are still doing and ignoring things that I have said like certain members here have defended slavery and genocide because the Bible says it is alright.

I don't blame anybody. My god, get over it. I do call out atheists for making claims they can't support with the evidence they demand of the theists.
Also, where have I ignored atrocities committed by theists? Show me where I've ignored it. You can't. It's not something you can demonstrate. Are you, again, making a claim without evidence?

capleton wrote:I wouldn't kill anyone who believed in God in the name of atheism but many of the fanatical monotheistic that I have met would certainly would if the voices in their head or their pastor/Iman told them to...

You've met "many" fanatical monotheistic believers who would kill you if they heard a voice telling them to?
Great anecdote. Where do you go to meet these people and, I'm mostly curious how this comes up in conversation. Like, do you just ask if they're a monotheistic fanatic and if so, follow up your question by asking if they'll kill you? And many do?

capleton wrote:... and I seriously doubt that you talked to hundreds

Ok. Cool.

capleton wrote:Maybe they go berserk because I ask them for evidence for god which they can never provide besides "the Bible says so" which isn't evidence at all and I just don't believe a word that they say.

It's your approach then. I have had conversations with a lot of believers about this... oh wait... not, I haven't. you don't believe I talked to believers. Right. Well, I'm not going to attempt to find scientific evidence that I talked to people over the past 40 years of my life. I guess since I don't have that evidence, that it couldn't have happened. Maybe since you don't believe the number of people I've spoken to, that I will just go beserk?


Ask yourself this. How many threads in this forum about religion have you read and NOT hijacked? You're trying harder than anyone else on these forums to force your opinion. I don't see the religious being nearly as aggressive as you. Yet you feel you are taking the high ground of reason.
capleton
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Re: Why do you believe?

Post by capleton »

We aren't going to agree on much. I'm done with this conversation sorry for hijacking the thread, continue with the ridiculous reasons you believe people.
occasional thoughts
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Re: Why do you believe?

Post by occasional thoughts »

I don't. I did once upon a time, but I was hounded and coerced into it by well-meaning but ultimately vile parents who abused the vulnerability of children and young teens. Christians, Moslems, they're all charlatans. They have manufactured "god" in their own images. I hate them to the extent of my intellect (in other words, I don't plan or wish violence on their lies.) Religion is dying a slow death; too slow, but it is dying. It will never be eradicated because some people within themselves want to believe in something. Poor benighted souls. One of my proudest accomplishments as a parent was successfully steering my 3 children away from any religious entanglements.
youjustcomplain
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Re: Why do you believe?

Post by youjustcomplain »

occasional thoughts wrote:I don't. I did once upon a time, but I was hounded and coerced into it by well-meaning but ultimately vile parents who abused the vulnerability of children and young teens. Christians, Moslems, they're all charlatans. They have manufactured "god" in their own images. I hate them to the extent of my intellect (in other words, I don't plan or wish violence on their lies.) Religion is dying a slow death; too slow, but it is dying. It will never be eradicated because some people within themselves want to believe in something. Poor benighted souls. One of my proudest accomplishments as a parent was successfully steering my 3 children away from any religious entanglements.
I'm curious about the last sentence.
Why would you steer them away from religion?

We know that to millions of people out there, religion, and faith in a god provide a strong purpose to their lives and gives them happiness. Knowing this, I wonder why someone would steer anyone away from it?

Like you, I don't believe in god. I have kids and I teach them to have an open mind and won't lead them one way or another, intentionally, however I won't be taking them to church, so one could fairly say that I'm not giving them a fair deal either. :)
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Re: Why do you believe?

Post by occasional thoughts »

Religion is divisive. It divides families. Ask me, I grew up in one, My mother was one of 6 siblings; the other 5 were "normal" she was a fundamentalist fanatic. It divided us from my grandparents, aunts, uncles, made me a pariah with my cousins. I bought in as a religiously traumatized young teenager but I've grown to hate it. My feelings extend to non-religious "spirituality:. It is one of the most destructive forces against the human spirit there is. I equate it with early conspiracy theorizing; it is the ancient form of Q-Anon.

Religion taught me that sports were wrong, that t.v. was wrong, that women cutting their hair was wrong, that rock'n'roll was wrong. Religion tried to get its hooks into my kids, through Sunday School, Young People's, social opportunities, etc. and etc. They were tempted at times. My No. 1 son even got "saved". But they fall threw it off. I am so thank ful.

I repeat, mankind has created god in mankind's own image. It is garbage. We don't need religion and false gods to establish values in children and people.
1nick
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Re: Why do you believe?

Post by 1nick »

I’m sorry you went through that. I’ve seen fundamentalism in action myself. Pretty scary stuff.
Adding “schmuck” to your post lends you no credibility.
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Re: Why do you believe?

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occasional thoughts wrote:Religion is divisive. It divides families. Ask me, I grew up in one, My mother was one of 6 siblings; the other 5 were "normal" she was a fundamentalist fanatic. It divided us from my grandparents, aunts, uncles, made me a pariah with my cousins. I bought in as a religiously traumatized young teenager but I've grown to hate it. My feelings extend to non-religious "spirituality:. It is one of the most destructive forces against the human spirit there is. I equate it with early conspiracy theorizing; it is the ancient form of Q-Anon.

Religion taught me that sports were wrong, that t.v. was wrong, that women cutting their hair was wrong, that rock'n'roll was wrong. Religion tried to get its hooks into my kids, through Sunday School, Young People's, social opportunities, etc. and etc. They were tempted at times. My No. 1 son even got "saved". But they fall threw it off. I am so thank ful.

I repeat, mankind has created god in mankind's own image. It is garbage. We don't need religion and false gods to establish values in children and people.
Many have similar theories. Perhaps we should make a thread about how religion has personally hurt us or people we know, or what firmly turned us away from it
"Dishwashers, the dishwasher, right? You press it. Remember the dishwasher, you press it, there'd be like an explosion. Five minutes later you open it up the steam pours out, the dishes -- now you press it 12 times, women tell me again." - Trump
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Thinktank
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Re: Why do you believe?

Post by Thinktank »

youjustcomplain wrote: We know that to millions of people out there, religion, and faith in a god provide a strong purpose to their lives and gives them happiness.
occasional thoughts wrote:Religion is divisive. It divided us from my grandparents, aunts, uncles, made me a pariah with my cousins. It is garbage. We don't need religion and false gods to establish values in children and people.
God - Always
Bible - Sometimes
Church - Never

Image
God speaks to certain people more than others ^ I was taught.

Image
^ Everyone is pretty much the same.


..
I especially want to thank everyone who has protected themselves from COVID-19 by getting vaccinated,” said Susan Brown, Interior Health president and CEO..... while nearly every VAXXED NHL and NBA player got covid.
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Re: Why do you believe?

Post by Glacier »

Which one are you, thinktank?
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1nick
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Re: Why do you believe?

Post by 1nick »

He’s the guy buying the schnapps.
Adding “schmuck” to your post lends you no credibility.
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Thinktank
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Re: Why do you believe?

Post by Thinktank »

Glacier wrote:Which one are you, thinktank?
I'm a TV evangelist. This is me right here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSIrQBGfUtw&t=39s

@ :25 I am seen here demanding a Covid vaccination, from God.





..
I especially want to thank everyone who has protected themselves from COVID-19 by getting vaccinated,” said Susan Brown, Interior Health president and CEO..... while nearly every VAXXED NHL and NBA player got covid.
occasional thoughts
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Re: Why do you believe?

Post by occasional thoughts »

Well that's one type of ambassador for Jesus for sure. It would frighten me as a preteen or teenager, and I don't mean frighten me into believing anything.

Don't you live in Dallas or somewhere in Texas. What the (pardon me) hell are you doing on Castanet serving B.C.'s little Okanagan Valley and Thompson Rivers backwaters?
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GordonH
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Re: Why do you believe?

Post by GordonH »

occasional thoughts wrote: Well that's one type of ambassador for Jesus for sure. It would frighten me as a preteen or teenager, and I don't mean frighten me into believing anything.

Don't you live in Dallas or somewhere in Texas. What the (pardon me) hell are you doing on Castanet serving B.C.'s little Okanagan Valley and Thompson Rivers backwaters?
TV evangelist are nothing more then 20 & 21 century Snake Oil salespeople. Unfortunately they prey on gullible individuals.

btw I have nothing against people having some type of beliefs, find one do an intense study. Then make up your own mind if this something for yourself, if not move on.
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