Why do you believe?

Is there a god? What is the meaning of life?
jonnygrizzay
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Re: Why do you believe?

Post by jonnygrizzay »

"People almost invariably arrive at their beliefs not on the basis of PROOF, but on the basis of what they find ATTRACTIVE"
- Blaise Pascal

"Most people are not on a TRUTH quest, theyre on a HAPPINESS quest. Whatever is going to make them HAPPY theyre going to believe"
- Dr. Frank Turek

If Christianity were TRUE, would you become a Christian? Most of you would probably answer NO. No amount of proof or information would convince you otherwise because you don't want it to be true. Its a moral issue, not an intellectual issue. If it were true, you would have to be held accountable for your actions, thoughts and deeds.

God gave us free will. Like any real loving relationship, you cant force the other person to love you. God cannot force us to love Him. You either love God or you dont love God. God will not force you into His presence for eternity. A lot of people view it as this..... Heaven or Hell.... but its more like this.... Eternity with God, or eternity without God.

Yes the Christian church is messed up, yes christians are hypocrites and liars. Christians are sinners just like atheists, just like Buddhists, just like muslims, just like everyone. The world is broken, and everyone in it is broken (a sinner). You know how you determine a real christian from a fake one? Ask that person if they think they are a "good" person. Most will say yes, or they try to be. Sorry, no one is good, not one.

Have you ever told a lie before? Well that would make you a liar. Have you ever stolen anything (irrespective of its value)? THat would make you a thief. Have you ever said the Lords name in vain (used His name as a cuss word to express disgust or excitment). That would make you a blasphemer. Have you ever hated anyone? That would make you a murderer in your heart. Jesus said that if you look at another person with lust, that makes you an adulterer. Have you ever done that?
This is only 5 of the 10 commandments.

I have broken all of the 10 commandments too many times to count. We all have. "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" - Romans 3:23

But there is hope in Jesus Christ. We have all broken Gods law, and Jesus paid the fine. Right before Jesus died He said "It is finished".... meaning the debt has been paid. When youre in court and someone pays your fine, the Judge can legally let you go. All we have to do is have true and sincere repentance (turn away from sin and towards Christ and ask for forgiveness) and trust in Jesus alone and what He did on the cross.

Jesus loves you. Yes you. He died for you so that you can have life beyond the grave. He offers salvation from sin and death. He doesnt promise you a "happy, healthy and wealthy" life..... no He promises so much more.... a joy and a peace that goes beyond circumstance. This life is a blink of an eye compared to whats coming. Can you imagine a world without pain, without suffering, without anger, without jealousy, without hatred, without sin? I can..... and I trust Jesus because thats what He promises.

You are a sinner. Jesus still loves you. "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us"

150,000+ people die everyday. Now is the time to get right with God. None of us know when our time is up. Jesus loves you more than you can imagine and died for you so that you may live.

Sorry for the long post.

Check out these youtube channels if youre interested in Truth, Love, Jesus, Salvation, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWyWFV ... iTttfnDpXQ

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzjPwF ... 1dq7cAkb3g

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCedYGs ... et0u7qlSyQ

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmrVJG ... sm_BFS_1YA

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDMOEj ... rp-r8KqXIQ
cadillacs & impalas make real lowriders
Sparki55
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Re: Why do you believe?

Post by Sparki55 »

jonnygrizzay wrote:If Christianity were TRUE, would you become a Christian? Most of you would probably answer NO. No amount of proof or information would convince you otherwise because you don't want it to be true. Its a moral issue, not an intellectual issue. If it were true, you would have to be held accountable for your actions, thoughts and deeds.


Yes, I would be a Christian if it was true. Science can't prove it exists, so it's simply faith.
capleton
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Re: Why do you believe?

Post by capleton »

jonnygrizzay wrote:"People almost invariably arrive at their beliefs not on the basis of PROOF, but on the basis of what they find ATTRACTIVE"
- Blaise Pascal

"Most people are not on a TRUTH quest, theyre on a HAPPINESS quest. Whatever is going to make them HAPPY theyre going to believe"
- Dr. Frank Turek

If Christianity were TRUE, would you become a Christian? Most of you would probably answer NO. No amount of proof or information would convince you otherwise because you don't want it to be true. Its a moral issue, not an intellectual issue. If it were true, you would have to be held accountable for your actions, thoughts and deeds.

God gave us free will. Like any real loving relationship, you cant force the other person to love you. God cannot force us to love Him. You either love God or you dont love God. God will not force you into His presence for eternity. A lot of people view it as this..... Heaven or Hell.... but its more like this.... Eternity with God, or eternity without God.

Yes the Christian church is messed up, yes christians are hypocrites and liars. Christians are sinners just like atheists, just like Buddhists, just like muslims, just like everyone. The world is broken, and everyone in it is broken (a sinner). You know how you determine a real christian from a fake one? Ask that person if they think they are a "good" person. Most will say yes, or they try to be. Sorry, no one is good, not one.

Have you ever told a lie before? Well that would make you a liar. Have you ever stolen anything (irrespective of its value)? THat would make you a thief. Have you ever said the Lords name in vain (used His name as a cuss word to express disgust or excitment). That would make you a blasphemer. Have you ever hated anyone? That would make you a murderer in your heart. Jesus said that if you look at another person with lust, that makes you an adulterer. Have you ever done that?
This is only 5 of the 10 commandments.

I have broken all of the 10 commandments too many times to count. We all have. "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" - Romans 3:23

But there is hope in Jesus Christ. We have all broken Gods law, and Jesus paid the fine. Right before Jesus died He said "It is finished".... meaning the debt has been paid. When youre in court and someone pays your fine, the Judge can legally let you go. All we have to do is have true and sincere repentance (turn away from sin and towards Christ and ask for forgiveness) and trust in Jesus alone and what He did on the cross.

Jesus loves you. Yes you. He died for you so that you can have life beyond the grave. He offers salvation from sin and death. He doesnt promise you a "happy, healthy and wealthy" life..... no He promises so much more.... a joy and a peace that goes beyond circumstance. This life is a blink of an eye compared to whats coming. Can you imagine a world without pain, without suffering, without anger, without jealousy, without hatred, without sin? I can..... and I trust Jesus because thats what He promises.

You are a sinner. Jesus still loves you. "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us"

150,000+ people die everyday. Now is the time to get right with God. None of us know when our time is up. Jesus loves you more than you can imagine and died for you so that you may live.

Sorry for the long post.

Check out these youtube channels if youre interested in Truth, Love, Jesus, Salvation, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWyWFV ... iTttfnDpXQ

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzjPwF ... 1dq7cAkb3g

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCedYGs ... et0u7qlSyQ

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmrVJG ... sm_BFS_1YA

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDMOEj ... rp-r8KqXIQ


If Christianity were true I still wouldn't worship Yahweh/Jesus, he's a genocidal psychopath.
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Omnitheo
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Re: Why do you believe?

Post by Omnitheo »

jonnygrizzay wrote:If Christianity were TRUE, would you become a Christian? Most of you would probably answer NO. No amount of proof or information would convince you otherwise because you don't want it to be true. Its a moral issue, not an intellectual issue. If it were true, you would have to be held accountable for your actions, thoughts and deeds.


Facts don't rely on "wants".

Morality, and accountability for actions has existed long before Christianity came along.
"Dishwashers, the dishwasher, right? You press it. Remember the dishwasher, you press it, there'd be like an explosion. Five minutes later you open it up the steam pours out, the dishes -- now you press it 12 times, women tell me again." - Trump
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alanjh595
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Re: Why do you believe?

Post by alanjh595 »

Omnitheo wrote:Facts don't rely on "wants".
Morality, and accountability for actions has existed long before Christianity came along.


This sounds like the philosophy of Existentialism. I became intrigued by this philosophy when I started reading " Albert Camus".

For those that want to read some of what I have on the topic.
https://www.philosophybasics.com/branch ... alism.html
Bring back the LIKE button.
capleton
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Re: Why do you believe?

Post by capleton »

Reasons for believing

-Indoctrinated from childhood from parents and pastors,priests which generates faith.
-Doesn't understand science so makes god of the gaps fallacies to things they do not understand about the natural world.
-Because the Bible says so even though that is not a logical reason, the writers of Bible did not know where the sun went at night.
-Fear of death so they make up nonsense about heaven and hell.
-Over active imaginations and think it is reality when it is clearly not, There are many Jesus's and gods in psych wards apparently.
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Hmmm
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Re: Why do you believe?

Post by Hmmm »

capleton wrote:Reasons for believing

-Indoctrinated from childhood from parents and pastors,priests which generates faith.
-Doesn't understand science so makes god of the gaps fallacies to things they do not understand about the natural world.
-Because the Bible says so even though that is not a logical reason, the writers of Bible did not know where the sun went at night.
-Fear of death so they make up nonsense about heaven and hell.
-Over active imaginations and think it is reality when it is clearly not, There are many Jesus's and gods in psych wards apparently.

Nobody asked why you don't believe? Why do you insist on trolling this thread? you dont have faith and have no hope for the future past your own short lifespan..We get this. Move along and stop trying to validate your lack of faith by answering a question that was not asked of you. I stand by my earlier statement that I think you wished you had hope (faith) and are crying for help.Start a thread with a question of why you don't believe? Theres one for you. I wont answer in there and put you down for your hopeless outlook..I promise.
I thought you said your dog doesn't bite....That's not my dog.
capleton
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Re: Why do you believe?

Post by capleton »

Hmmm wrote:
capleton wrote:Reasons for believing

-Indoctrinated from childhood from parents and pastors,priests which generates faith.
-Doesn't understand science so makes god of the gaps fallacies to things they do not understand about the natural world.
-Because the Bible says so even though that is not a logical reason, the writers of Bible did not know where the sun went at night.
-Fear of death so they make up nonsense about heaven and hell.
-Over active imaginations and think it is reality when it is clearly not, There are many Jesus's and gods in psych wards apparently.

Nobody asked why you don't believe? Why do you insist on trolling this thread? you dont have faith and have no hope for the future past your own short lifespan..We get this. Move along and stop trying to validate your lack of faith by answering a question that was not asked of you. I stand by my earlier statement that I think you wished you had hope (faith) and are crying for help.Start a thread with a question of why you don't believe? Theres one for you. I wont answer in there and put you down for your hopeless outlook..I promise.


Nope, those are reasons why people believe so how the hell can it be trolling, good try though. I do not wish I had faith because it is illogical and a poor way of understanding the world, I must've struck a nerve because now all you can do is make baseless assertions.
Last edited by capleton on Jul 10th, 2020, 10:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Omnitheo
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Re: Why do you believe?

Post by Omnitheo »

Hmmm wrote:
capleton wrote:Reasons for believing

-Indoctrinated from childhood from parents and pastors,priests which generates faith.
-Doesn't understand science so makes god of the gaps fallacies to things they do not understand about the natural world.
-Because the Bible says so even though that is not a logical reason, the writers of Bible did not know where the sun went at night.
-Fear of death so they make up nonsense about heaven and hell.
-Over active imaginations and think it is reality when it is clearly not, There are many Jesus's and gods in psych wards apparently.

Nobody asked why you don't believe? Why do you insist on trolling this thread? you dont have faith and have no hope for the future past your own short lifespan..We get this. Move along and stop trying to validate your lack of faith by answering a question that was not asked of you. I stand by my earlier statement that I think you wished you had hope (faith) and are crying for help.Start a thread with a question of why you don't believe? Theres one for you. I wont answer in there and put you down for your hopeless outlook..I promise.


Hate to break it to you, but beyond your own short lifespan lies nothing but your legacy and memory. Hopefully you use your life to leave a lasting impression upon the world, because afterwards, that's it. You're done and no amount of churchgoing, praying, proselytizing will change that.

People like Capleton believe in facts and evidence, and spending ones short life in reality as opposed to squandering this life in the vain pursuit of an imaginary next one. It is the latter approach which can most certainly be defined as hopelessness.
"Dishwashers, the dishwasher, right? You press it. Remember the dishwasher, you press it, there'd be like an explosion. Five minutes later you open it up the steam pours out, the dishes -- now you press it 12 times, women tell me again." - Trump
youjustcomplain
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Re: Why do you believe?

Post by youjustcomplain »

Omnitheo wrote:Hate to break it to you, but beyond your own short lifespan lies nothing but your legacy and memory. Hopefully you use your life to leave a lasting impression upon the world, because afterwards, that's it. You're done and no amount of churchgoing, praying, proselytizing will change that.

People like Capleton believe in facts and evidence, and spending ones short life in reality as opposed to squandering this life in the vain pursuit of an imaginary next one. It is the latter approach which can most certainly be defined as hopelessness.


Just keep in mind that although I don't believe in the same things you don't believe in, it doesn't mean that either of us are right.
Just like Capleton, you and myself, we evaluate evidence to form our understanding of the world. However, that doesn't mean there isn't some sky god pulling the strings; only that there is no evidence for it that we would support.

To be clear, I am an atheist. I'm just not an antitheist. If good evidence was brought forward that supported a god that was falsifiable, I'd certainly change my position.
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bb49
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Re: Why do you believe?

Post by bb49 »

jonnygrizzay wrote:"People almost invariably arrive at their beliefs not on the basis of PROOF, but on the basis of what they find ATTRACTIVE"
- Blaise Pascal

If Christianity were BELIEVABLE, would you become a Christian? Most of you would probably answer NO. No amount of proof or information would convince you otherwise because you don't want it to be true. Its a moral issue, not an intellectual issue. If it were true, you would have to be held accountable for your actions, thoughts and deeds.


There, I made one appropriate change for you.

If it were believable, yes, I probably would. But there is nothing in Christianity, or any religion that makes them believable.

I see the leaders of these religions no different then politicians, trying to accumulate as many followers, and ultimately as much power as possible.
The lines they string are no different then the lines and lies strung by most politicians.

They allow beliefs to be used as a crutch, as a comforting tool. Their followers believe, they feel comforted, and the money rolls in.

Again I say, IF it were believable. But they are not.
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bb49
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Re: Why do you believe?

Post by bb49 »

Hmmm wrote:
capleton wrote:Reasons for believing

-Indoctrinated from childhood from parents and pastors,priests which generates faith.
-Doesn't understand science so makes god of the gaps fallacies to things they do not understand about the natural world.
-Because the Bible says so even though that is not a logical reason, the writers of Bible did not know where the sun went at night.
-Fear of death so they make up nonsense about heaven and hell.
-Over active imaginations and think it is reality when it is clearly not, There are many Jesus's and gods in psych wards apparently.

Nobody asked why you don't believe? Why do you insist on trolling this thread? you dont have faith and have no hope for the future past your own short lifespan..We get this. Move along and stop trying to validate your lack of faith by answering a question that was not asked of you. I stand by my earlier statement that I think you wished you had hope (faith) and are crying for help.Start a thread with a question of why you don't believe? Theres one for you. I wont answer in there and put you down for your hopeless outlook..I promise.


Wow, that's quite the assumption make.
Are you a believer? You could be since you were triggered by his statement.
If you are a believer why are you so offensive? Why aren't you more forgiving?
I_am_a_Canadian (with unacceptable views)

"I reject a society where every desire becomes a right. Where I have no responsibilities, I have only rights."
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Hmmm
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Re: Why do you believe?

Post by Hmmm »

Some of you people act like a mob. You troll a thread about believing in God hoping to find someone who does, just so you can ridicule the person. This thread is; Why do you believe? its not why you don't believe? But it seems that the mob thinks that this would be a great place to find ones to ridicule or even defend why you don't believe, along with trying to make some feel stupid for doing so. (nobody asked here why you don't believe?)

So I'm simply pointing this out and trying to understand why some of you mob participants are posting in this topic if you in fact don't believe. Like I have pointed out before, there are countless subjects I have no interest in and guess what? I don't go to those threads and certainly wouldn't go there just to ridicule ones who are interested in it. Not like you. You should move along and learn to be kind and decent fellow humans. Putting people down for having a belief in God makes you not those things.
I thought you said your dog doesn't bite....That's not my dog.
Sparki55
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Re: Why do you believe?

Post by Sparki55 »

Hmmm wrote:Some of you people act like a mob. You troll a thread about believing in God hoping to find someone who does, just so you can ridicule the person. This thread is; Why do you believe? its not why you don't believe? But it seems that the mob thinks that this would be a great place to find ones to ridicule or even defend why you don't believe, along with trying to make some feel stupid for doing so. (nobody asked here why you don't believe?)

So I'm simply pointing this out and trying to understand why some of you mob participants are posting in this topic if you in fact don't believe. Like I have pointed out before, there are countless subjects I have no interest in and guess what? I don't go to those threads and certainly wouldn't go there just to ridicule ones who are interested in it. Not like you. You should move along and learn to be kind and decent fellow humans. Putting people down for having a belief in God makes you not those things.



Now, 30 years later, I still wonder why people hang on to these feelings that there is something else out there, some divine creator, or puppet master. Some all powerful being that loves us, unconditionally, but will send us somewhere very hot and painful for eternity if we don't follow his rules. What makes humans so special to deserve all this attention?


That's a snippet from the OP of this thread. It started out with a non believer poking fun at religion. Then asking why the heck anyone would believe this nonsense.

So whine as you will...
capleton
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Re: Why do you believe?

Post by capleton »

Christians have never been able to take criticism well, they used to burn to the stake anyone who opposed them. I'm sure hmm would like the blasphemy laws to be brought back.

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