Do Christians

[daria]

Pretty sure that most devout Hebrews wouldn't be adding to the Torah (Deuteronomy 4:2) by saying that Moshe did something he didn't.

[averagejoe]

Beit-El is Bethel in Hebrew. It still isn't on the other side of the Red Sea.

Yes the other side of the Red Sea 11 miles north of Jerusalem.

[daria]

Yes the other side of the Red Sea 11 miles north of Jerusalem.

So, once again, please explain to me how Jacob's stone at Beit-El was at the other side of the Red Sea for Moses to supposedly strike. You have also suggested that this stone is part of the Ark of the Covenant, but I see no instructions in Exodus 25 regarding the inclusion of a stone in the creation of the Ark.

I am in awe at how people will cherry pick what they want from their faith's scriptures and twist things to fit their preconceived notions.

[averagejoe]

Yes the other side of the Red Sea 11 miles north of Jerusalem.

So, once again, please explain to me how Jacob's stone at Beit-El was at the other side of the Red Sea for Moses to supposedly strike. You have also suggested that this stone is part of the Ark of the Covenant, but I see no instructions in Exodus 25 regarding the inclusion of a stone in the creation of the Ark.

I am in awe at how people will cherry pick what they want from their faith's scriptures and twist things to fit their preconceived notions.

LOL....I see your game!

[daria]

Anyone who is able to point out the glaring mistakes in your arguments is playing a game?

[Jflem1983]

Anyone who is able to point out the glaring mistakes in your arguments is playing a game?

It was a compliment . He was saying u r well versed in this stuff. U are. Or sure seem to be. Quite impressed myself. Must take some time to be able to remember all those chapters and verses

[daria]

I guess I just have a good memory.

[youjustcomplain]

I see hardline Christian "believers", actually "believers" of just about any faith that has a conscious deity in its resume, in the same light as atheists. Both are close-minded to alternatives to their own beliefs. The idea that you don't have to justify a negative position is just a cop out.

To take it a point further, I often wonder just what God it is that athiests don't believe in. The cutting edge of quantum physics gets closer to something god-like on a daily basis.

Choose to see people in any light you wish. But, I'm not convinced that all theists or atheists are closed minded as you suggest.
There are the religious zealots such as AverageJoe who refuse any challenge to his/her faith. And there are plenty of Christians who are open to fact and change. (I pick Christians because of their local abundance). At the same time, yes, we've all run into atheists who seem very closed minded and attempt to invoke some mythical proof of gods non existence. I'd hope that most atheists would be much more in search of the truth of the matter than that. I consider myself a rather average atheist in that I only believe in what I know to be true, but I also do take a leap of faith when it comes to science. Which is to say, I believe the scientific community when they make a discovery that could be proven to be false, but hasn't been.

Onto your second comment. The idea that you don't have to justify a negative position is not a cop out. It's a default position that everyone takes about almost everything in their life. Do you believe there are teapots in orbit around Saturn? Do you believe that the color black always tastes like lemon pie? Do you believe that the unicorns horn is made of lettuce? No, of course not. You don't need to prove why you don't believe these things. When a claim is made about these things, you must decide your position on the matter. I always go with the same one; I don't know, so I choose not to believe the claim. It doesn't mean I actively disbelieve the claim, but I suspect we all would require some level of evidence to believe any of the examples above.

Which god do atheists not believe in? I think I'm confused about your statement. I guess I don't understand what point you're trying to make. I've read your comments in the past and they are generally well written and worth reading. Atheism is the lack of believe in a god(s). So which god do atheists not believe in ? All gods. I'd be satisfied with a god "belief" if quantum physics comes up with evidence that supports the god hypothesis, but then, it wouldn't really be believe or faith that gets me there.

[capleton]

Dizzy's post just confirmed that you people don't have any logic whatsoever.

Actually, anyone who has taken a philosophy class and actually studied logical argument will remember the argument of whether or not God exists is impossible to prove or disprove logically. I do find it interesting to ponder what vested interest is at work in people who are bent on attacking the concept of God or Christianity (p.s. I am not Christian). I’ll go with Bsuds in saying “You can call someone stupid for believing and you can call them stupid for not believing but I say it's really stupid to argue about it and try to change anyone's beliefs.” A person’s spiritual and/or religious beliefs are more a part of them than even partisan politics, and there are still people who believe in Trump despite all the best evidence he is little more than an incompetent wannabe. Why is it so important to convince yourself that you are right in this unprovable argument and everyone who believes there is a God (or something, as there as many possibilities as there are people on Earth) is wrong?

What are you afraid of?

It is pretty basic logic that one does not have to prove a negative, I can't prove that Tinkerbell does not exist either but then again there is no reason to believe that she does because there lacks evidence. If you make a claim like "Jesus is god" and that a god exists, it is up to that person who claiming it to prove that claim, so far Christians fail in this regard.

[fluffy]

Endless argument over something to which no definitive proof one way or the other exists is an exercise in frustration. One of the points I keep trying to make is that as soon as you temper atheistic beliefs with any degree of openness to other possibilities then you are venturing into agnostic territory.

It occurs to me that many who fit the definition of agnostic prefer to adopt the title of atheist more as a protest against religion than as an accurate description of the beliefs they hold (or do not hold). Not so much a statement of “who I am” as a statement of “who I am not”.

[fluffy]

We just don't "believe" in anything. We accept conclusions based on evidence and there is currently none supporting the existence of a diety.

We have yet to discover life on another planet. Do you conclude therefore, that it does not exist?

Should solid evidence come up supporting a diety atheists would be the first to accept it.

So you are open to other possibilities? Careful now, that would make you an agnostic.

[JLives]

Why does Christianity get a special pass when it comes to burden of proof? No, I don't see any reason to believe we will EVER see evidence of a diety. It's made up nonsense. Do I believe we are all connected by energy and are part of something greater than ourselves? No. I know we are. We have evidence that we are. Of course life exists on other planets due to the fact that there is life on ours. We have evidence that it happens. Again, religion is given a different standard of proof.

[fluffy]

Why does Christianity get a special pass when it comes to burden of proof? No, I don't see any reason to believe we will EVER see evidence of a diety. It's made up nonsense. Do I believe we are all connected by energy and are part of something greater than ourselves? No. I know we are. We have evidence that we are. Of course life exists on other planets due to the fact that there is life on ours. We have evidence that it happens. Again, religion is given a different standard of proof.

I think it is you that is holding traditional religions to a different standard. By many standards "connected by energy" qualifies as a higher power, "god" if you will. If you choose not to believe in the traditional concept of a controlling consciousness then I'm right there with you, but that belief system is fast giving way to a more metaphorical god, one closer to the energy system of which you speak. Just as some religions are stuck in the past, so are many atheists.

[JLives]

I never said it was a higher power nor controlling. We are connected by energy, that is what is greater than ourselves. It is constantly transforming. We are literally made of stars. We are the greater power together. Us being connected to each other and to our universe in no way infers the existance of a god.

[fluffy]

Yet there are those who would call the very force you speak of “God”. Does that name negate its existence?