Castanet

youjustcomplain wrote:

capleton wrote: Books like the Bible makes a bunch of claims, if people insist that a event took place in reality or a certain character existed then they have to show actual evidence, that is how the philosophical burden of proof works.

Yes, the bible makes claims. Millions of people believe this stuff. There is absolutely no burden of proof required though. They believe based on faith and they don't owe us atheists any reason for their belief.

They certainly don't have to show actual evidence. Lets face it, any evidence they could show would be dismissed as not being valid evidence. Right? Evidence that supports the miracles of the bible would not be founded in science and thus, would be dismissed. It's the impasse we're always at.
They believe, we don't.
They feel their reasons are justifiable, we don't.

It's unfair for us to expect people of faith to use the same standards we use that has us not believing. If they played by our rules, they wouldn't use faith and their God would stop existing to them. This isn't what they want, so we shouldn't expect them to change their ways, anymore than they should expect us to change ours. :)

My only wish is that people of faith would stop borrowing science to attempt to justify their beliefs. They should just leave it at "because I believe".

capleton wrote:Christians are the ones who are making claims and trying to convert people so of coarse they have the burden of proof. I even read in Christian magazines that they admit to having the burden of proof. If atheists were out trying to convert people then we would have the burden of proof but it's the other way around.

alanjh595 wrote:Keep in mind, that these advocates are preaching to impoverished peoples that don't have internet access or anything else for comparision.

youjustcomplain wrote:Definitely worthy of mention indeed. I'd say that education is the killer of poverty and of religion. It's a shame that in many countries, education isn't a priority which allows poverty, oppression and religion to take hold.

alanjh595 wrote:Poverty and oppression are caused by lack of education. Lack of education creates a vacuum for religion to fill the void.

Just consider the impoverished countries that are devoid of clean drinking water, where they have to walk miles every day to gather jugs of dirty water to drink. Now a couple of missionaries show up and sink a well in the middle of town that provides a plentiful supply of clean drinking water.
The locals would be happy and hope for new miracles. All the while, the missionaries are preaching their version of the words of their god.
Would you not worship that god in anticipation of receiving more miracles?

Glacier wrote:There's no evidence for this. Religions come and go with or without education or poverty. Religiosity in the west was on the rise for 100s of years up until the 1960s even though education was on the rise at the same time (and poverty in decline). Education has continued to rise and poverty continues to fall why religion has been in decline. Going forward religion is starting to grow again, especially in the Europe with all the Islamic immigration (eg. the Gen Z in the UK is the most religious and socially conservative generation since the "Greatest Generation" despite being the most educated and rich generation ever).

In eastern Europe religiosity tanked when the communists took over, but rose again when the communists left. This had nothing to do with education or poverty.

Glacier wrote:

alanjh595 wrote:Poverty and oppression are caused by lack of education. Lack of education creates a vacuum for religion to fill the void.

Just consider the impoverished countries that are devoid of clean drinking water, where they have to walk miles every day to gather jugs of dirty water to drink. Now a couple of missionaries show up and sink a well in the middle of town that provides a plentiful supply of clean drinking water.
The locals would be happy and hope for new miracles. All the while, the missionaries are preaching their version of the words of their god.
Would you not worship that god in anticipation of receiving more miracles?

There's no evidence for this. Religions come and go with or without education or poverty. Religiosity in the west was on the rise for 100s of years up until the 1960s even though education was on the rise at the same time (and poverty in decline). Education has continued to rise and poverty continues to fall while religion has been in decline. Going forward religion is starting to grow again, especially in the Europe with all the Islamic immigration (eg. the Gen Z in the UK is the most religious and socially conservative generation since the "Greatest Generation" despite being the most educated and rich generation ever).

In eastern Europe religiosity tanked when the communists took over, but rose again when the communists left. This had nothing to do with education or poverty.

capleton wrote:
Actually Christianity in Europe is declining,especially in the Nordic countries and more people in Britain believe in ghosts then in god.

Glacier wrote:

capleton wrote:
Actually Christianity in Europe is declining,especially in the Nordic countries and more people in Britain believe in ghosts then in god.

It was declining, but with more migrants coming it's reversing.