Should Christian Churches bash 'gays' ?

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Should Christian Churches bash 'gays' ?

Postby Davidjayjordan » Jun 16th, 2019, 3:43 pm

As I always make it a personal rule to answer sincere questions to me, allow me to answer one asked to me from a responder..

The query comes from the thread Bible questions answered HERE.. and its from Robert.

[color=#FF0000]There are tons of reasons people reject the religion like all the gay bashing plus the fact there's no evidence of anything in the Bible. Saying something ambiguous like, "Ask Jesus and he will answer you" doesn't make any sense. How am I supposed to ask an invisible and fictional person something? Hearing voices in one's head is often a symptom of Schizophrenia, David.
[/color]
So lets debate it sincerely because Roberts first question concerns GAY BASHING, as I assume he is asking about why religion or churches are so into gay bashing.

I mean, Kelowna celebrates a pride day every year, and they are citizens, and even the mayor I believe gets into marching with them

So is she or he or an elected city official in Kelowna, or Vernon or Penticton, representing tolerance values or accepting gays as our equals. Or should we, as religious or spiritual people continue GAY BASHING, and WHY.

Lets discuss this important issue, and where the bashing might stem from in some peoples scriptures, and see if we can bring our communities together rather than their being strife and division, as it seems Robert is mentioning. Or let him, further expand on his comments on GAY BASHING by the church people or church preachers.

Honest sincere question, Robert, so lets all, discuss it, in this thread.

IHS

David

The latter queries from Robert, someone else can start on a NEW THREAD, and then I might enter in, as well.
Equality and Love is the Lords Basic, NOT self righteousness and pride.
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Re: Should Christian Churches bash 'gays' ?

Postby Robert7461 » Jun 16th, 2019, 3:59 pm

Davidjayjordan wrote:So lets debate it sincerely because Roberts first question concerns GAY BASHING, as I assume he is asking about why religion or churches are so into gay bashing.


The homosexual part of my post was a statement, not a question. I know exactly why churchies are so into gay bashing; under-educated people who won't read any kind of research or science that might be contrary to their stone-age views.

How many topics do you have to make before it sinks in that no is buying your tripe?

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Re: Should Christian Churches bash 'gays' ?

Postby Davidjayjordan » Jun 16th, 2019, 4:07 pm

OK lets objectively confirm some of Roberts latest comments..

[Robert states color=#FF0000]The homosexual part of my post was a statement, not a question. I know exactly why churchies are so into gay bashing; under-educated people who won't read any kind of research or science that might be contrary to their stone-age views.
[/color]

So Robert through research knows, or makes the correct statement that gay bashing by church people comes from under-educated people. Totally totally agree. Robert may not like it, but I totally agree with him on this subject.

History shows that gayness has always been around, its historical, and historically speaking in Bible Times, in Mid Eastern culture at least, Sodom the main historical story that church people use to justify their gay bashing, deals not with gays committing sex against men, but the rather vile practice of punishing strangers and conguered armies via anal penetration to totally humiliate them. This they even did to Gadaffhi, when his opposition captured him, on the way to his prison cell. It was about pride, domination and punishment not for gay sexual pleasure. The vile ones torture others by any means possible, gay penetration was one of their methods, as Sodom killed strangers...

This was their sin according to Ezekiel and according to history and research.

Therefore though the Genesis account is true, its reason according to Ezekiel the prophet was that it was their pride, abundance of time, and **********...... Hence, there seems to be no reason to bash gays by church people, when they didn't read the text right or READ what the exact prophetic words from the Lord, in Ezekiel, the prophets words....

Research and education, therefore can deliver church people from their stone age unresearched bashing of gays.

And its not just the verse in Ezekiel, as many other places and Jesus words declare we should not call anyone RACCA. Hence bringing our society together rather than church people separating us via bashing of one segment of it.
Equality and Love is the Lords Basic, NOT self righteousness and pride.
Creation and Design is the Lords PLAN, NOT chaos and luck

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Re: Should Christian Churches bash 'gays' ?

Postby Davidjayjordan » Jun 17th, 2019, 9:17 am

So because many people don't search out truths or the Bible history, allow me to help with the search from
a bible mentioned BOOK, Jasher

http://earth-history.com/Pseudepigrapha ... her-19.htm

25 And a poor man came into the city (of Sodom) to seek maintenance, and he remained in the city some days, and all the
people of Sodom caused a proclamation of their custom not to give this man a morsel of bread to eat, until he dropped dead
upon the earth, and they did so 26 And Paltith the daughter of Lot saw this man lying in the streets starved with hunger,
and no one would give him any thing to keep him alive, and he was just upon the point of death.27 And her soul was filled
with pity on account of the man, and she fed him secretly with bread for many days, and the soul of this man was revived.

28 For when she went forth to fetch water she would put the bread in the water pitcher, and when she came to the place
where the poor man was, she took the bread from the pitcher and gave it him to eat; so she did many days. 29 And all the
people of Sodom and Gomorrah wondered how this man could bear starvation for so many days. 30 And they said to each
other, This can only be that he eats and drinks, for no man can bear starvation for so many days or live as this man has,
without even his countenance changing; and three men concealed themselves in a place where the poor man was
stationed, to know who it was that brought him bread to eat.

31 And Paltith daughter of Lot went forth that day to fetch water, and she put bread into her pitcher of water, and she went
to draw water by the poor man's place, and she took out the bread from the pitcher and gave it to the poor man and he ate
it. 32 And the three men saw what Paltith did to the poor man, and they said to her, It is thou then who hast supported
him, and therefore has he not starved, nor changed in appearance nor died like the rest.

33 And the three men went out of the place in which they were concealed, and they seized Paltith and the bread which was
in the poor man's hand. 34 And they took Paltith and brought her before their judges, and they said to them, Thus did she
do, and it is she who supplied the poor man with bread, therefore did he not die all this time; now therefore declare to us
the punishment due to this woman for having transgressed our law. 35 And the people of Sodom and Gomorrah
assembled and kindled a fire in the street of the city, and they took the woman and cast her into the fire and she was
burned to ashes.

36 And in the city of Admah there was a woman to whom they did the like. 37 For a traveler came into the city of Admah to
abide there all night, with the intention of going home in the morning, and he sat opposite the door of the house of the
young woman's father, to remain there, as the sun had set when be had reached that place; and the young woman saw him
sitting by the door of the house. 38 And he asked her for a drink of water and she said to him, Who art thou? and he said to
her, I was this day going on the road, and reached here when the sun set, so I will abide here all night, and in the morning
I will arise early and continue my journey.

39 And the young woman went into the house and fetched the man bread and water to eat and drink. 40 And this affair
became known to the people of Admah, and they assembled and brought the young woman before the judges, that they
should judge her for this act.

41 And the judge said, The judgment of death must pass upon this woman because she transgressed our law, and this
therefore is the decision concerning her. 42 And the people of those cities assembled and brought out the young woman,
and anointed her with honey from head to foot, as the judge had decreed, and they placed her before a swarm of bees
which were then in their hives, and the bees flew upon her and stung her that her whole body was swelled. 43 And the
young woman cried out on account of the bees, but no one took notice of her or pitied her, and her cries ascended to
heaven 44 And the Lord was provoked at this and at all the works of the cities of Sodom, for they had abundance of food,
and had tranquility amongst them, and still would not sustain the poor and the needy, and in those days their evil doings
and sins became great before the Lord.

45 And the Lord sent for two of the angels that had come to Abraham's house, to destroy Sodom and its cities. 46 And the
angels rose up from the door of Abraham's tent, after they had eaten and drunk, and they reached Sodom in the evening,
and Lot was then sitting in the gate of Sodom, and when he saw them he rose to meet them, and he bowed down to the
ground. 47 And he pressed them greatly and brought them into his house, and he gave them victuals which they ate, and
they abode all night in his house.

48 And the angels said to Lot, Arise, go forth from this place, thou and all belonging to thee, lest thou be consumed in the
iniquity of this city, for the Lord will destroy this place. 49 And the angels laid hold upon the hand of Lot and upon the
hand of his wife, and upon the hands of his children, and all belonging to him, and they brought him forth and set him
without the cities. 50 And they said to Lot, Escape for thy life, and he fled and all belonging to him.

51 Then the Lord rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah and upon all these cities brimstone and fire from the Lord out
of heaven. 52 And he overthrew these cities, all the plain and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon
the ground; and Ado the wife of Lot looked back to see the destruction of the cities, for her compassion was moved on
account of her daughters who remained in Sodom, for they did not go with her. 53 And when she looked back she became a
pillar of salt, and it is yet in that. (End of quote, from the quoted BOOK of Jasher, in the Protestant Bible)

So even though sexual humiliation through anal sex might have been part of the mistreatment of strangers, the true judgment against the people of Sodom and their neighboring cities was in my opinion and Jasher .... their pride, wealth, selfishness and hatred for strangers. What's your opinion and what's your atitude towards strangers and the poor ? A lot depends on our answers !!
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Re: Should Christian Churches bash 'gays' ?

Postby Davidjayjordan » Jun 17th, 2019, 9:22 am

AS for the book of Jasher, it was mentioned in the Old and New Testament. If it was an ungodly BOOK.... it would not have been mentioned or quoted or studied...

Ancient Book Of Jasher: Referenced In Joshua 10:13; 2 Samuel 1:18; And 2 Timothy 3:8
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Re: Should Christian Churches bash 'gays' ?

Postby youjustcomplain » Jun 17th, 2019, 10:39 am

Taking the Bible out of it because it's just not relevant, I think that nobody should be bashing gays.

Chrisitian Churches are made up of Christians
Christians are people
Gays are people
People should never be attacking other people based on their sex/gender.

I'm unclear why the bibles teachings should ever come into play on a human rights issue.

Edit: But if a single word of the Christian bible supports homophobia, then I would be happy to say that it's just more evidence that the Christian bible is immoral.

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Re: Should Christian Churches bash 'gays' ?

Postby Glacier » Jun 17th, 2019, 12:34 pm

youjustcomplain wrote:Edit: But if a single word of the Christian bible supports homophobia, then I would be happy to say that it's just more evidence that the Christian bible is immoral.

Immoral by whose standard?

What I mean is that morality is subjective. Homosexuality as a moral act is largely a western standard. Go to Russia or China or Saudi Arabia or Sudan and you'll find a different moral standard on homosexuality. Heck, even just take a bus at night in London and you'll find that the younger generation Z (the generation of tomorrow) is more homophobic than Gen Y. More homophobic than Gen X. More homophobic than Generation Baby Boom.

P.S. To the OP: Christian churches often put up pride flags only to have them defaced either by people who hate Christians or who hate gays or both.

The only universal ethic we should all agree on is that violence and vandalism should never be the way to settle political disagreements. It's permissible to not like gays or Christians or anyone else, but make sure your bashing is with the tongue not the sword. Make sure you respect those who put up flags representing things you don't agree with. It's only through the free exchange of ideas, even harmful ones that we evolve into a more peaceful and tolerant society.

This is why it's wrong for Trump to claim that it should be illegal to burn the American flag. It's not a very good respectful way to protest in my opinion, but free expression doesn't give a damn what I or Donald Trump thinks.

Peace.
“Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die”

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Re: Should Christian Churches bash 'gays' ?

Postby youjustcomplain » Jun 17th, 2019, 2:44 pm

Glacier wrote:What I mean is that morality is subjective.


I think it's a fair question.

I guess I suggest that attacking others for who they are is immoral.

Look no further than the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
https://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/
And I don't think that human rights abuses in other countries make for good examples of morality.

I know you're not suggesting that gay bashing is totally ok because it happens in other places around the world. I'm not trying to suggest that you support it. :)
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Re: Should Christian Churches bash 'gays' ?

Postby Fancy » Jun 17th, 2019, 2:52 pm

I'm wondering why the question is asked in the first place.
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Re: Should Christian Churches bash 'gays' ?

Postby Davidjayjordan » Jun 17th, 2019, 5:40 pm

You just, allow me to post in RED after your good comments. Its refreshing to hear a sincere post, with sincere thoughts and opinions.. Thanks

youjustcomplain wrote:Taking the Bible out of it because it's just not relevant. Agreed but this is the Religion and Spiritual SYB-board and one of the greatest anti-gayu sources comes from the churches groups who deem homosexuality as the worst of all sins..., I think that nobody should be bashing gays.(Agreed, but the reality is that almost all church people do bash gays, and lesbians and bi's

Chrisitian Churches are made up of Christians..... (No, it should be but for the majority its just a social group, a networking group, rather than a religious group...for few witjhin follow Jesus, but as I am writing follow Paul who changed Jesus words and love to suit a law and self righteous religious group
Christians are people (loving people who follow a loving Jesus)
Gays are people Amen
People should never be attacking other people based on their sex/gender. (you got it,hetrosexuals should not be condemning gays and gays should not be mocking heterosexuals.. Its a private affair, not a public excuse to classify and demonize)

I'm unclear why the bibles teachings should ever come into play on a human rights issue. (The bible or what Jesus said, has everything to do with human rights... Jesus example is very important, not just words to live by but actions to live by as well. Jesus was not anti-gay


Edit: But if a single word of the Christian bible supports homophobia, then I would be happy to say that it's just more evidence that the Christian bible is immoral.
)it doesn't support homophobi, and is moral, but Pauk whos words were accepted by the false church system does try to make gayness immoral. Thereby making this thread important for church people to read and understand to bring together our divisions with the gays, and gays to straights.
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Re: Should Christian Churches bash 'gays' ?

Postby Davidjayjordan » Jun 17th, 2019, 5:55 pm

My comments in RED

Glacier wrote:[What I mean is that morality is subjective. Homosexuality as a moral act is largely a western standard. Go to Russia or China or Saudi Arabia or Sudan and you'll find a different moral standard on homosexuality. Heck, even just take a bus at night in London and you'll find that the younger generation Z (the generation of tomorrow) is more homophobic than Gen Y. More homophobic than Gen X. More homophobic than Generation Baby Boom. Id say morality is objective, and based on circumstances and conditions and certain laws of love. But I think you mean, the morality changes according to the nation or state or religion of a nation or state, according to their laws.

P.S. To the OP: Christian churches often put up pride flags only to have them defaced either by people who hate Christians or who hate gays or both. (Some Christian churches are loving and accepting... discern wisely... and unloving church people will attack any true Christian church that accepts gays, because sex is the greatest sin for church people and that's basically how they stay saved according to their weird doctrine based on sexual activity. or lack thereof)


The only universal ethic we should all agree on is that violence and vandalism should never be the way to settle political disagreements. (But bullying, war, intimidation is what business and politics and even discussion boards are all about..)It's permissible to not like gays or Christians or anyone else, but make sure your bashing is with the tongue not the sword. (yea, hopefully bullying istops at mere words, but that is not the case in real life... Words and mobs enrage mob members to go further and further, as those negative thoughts fester in weak minds and have to come out one way or another. Words and concepts are real things and get expressed in real actions. This is why discussion boards and real education, are so IMPORTANT) Make sure you respect those who put up flags representing things you don't agree with. (And make sure their flags do not intimdate or force their opinions on you and your non violent flags) It's only through the free exchange of ideas, even harmful ones that we evolve into a more peaceful and tolerant society. (true, in this case, there can be evolution because it is not random change but thoughtful decision making for the whole, allowing free discussion among all...well said)

Peace.
And peace to you...and to all men, women and all of good will

Good thoughtful posting Glacier
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Re: Should Christian Churches bash 'gays' ?

Postby Davidjayjordan » Jun 17th, 2019, 6:04 pm

Glacier and You just complain, talked about.. Go to Russia or China or Saudi Arabia or Sudan and you'll find a different moral standard on homosexuality

And you want to see persecution, go to these places for they are under extreme holiness laws, that if you get caught violating them you will be tortured, or killed for doing so.

They are religious states.. Do remember Russia is now a church state and is not atheistic Communistic, but contains the second biggest ultra conservative church in the world... and they will be taking over according to prophecy...as well as linking with China and S.A and Muslim states.

The Muslim nations will cut off genitals etc if their laws are violated, even though when abroad outside of their Muslim countries they are notoriously the most drunken and sex addicted of all, and the most disrespectful.
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Re: Should Christian Churches bash 'gays' ?

Postby Fancy » Jun 17th, 2019, 7:03 pm

So far not a single relevant post as to why the question.
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Re: Should Christian Churches bash 'gays' ?

Postby Davidjayjordan » Jun 18th, 2019, 6:46 am

So far, not a single person has given a reason why Church people should be 'bashing gays.

Even though they have a verse from Paul they also use to justify their bashing. Yet again this would confirm what I said about Paul, flipping from Grace to Law and self righteousness

And would again confirm that Pauls writings to his church system were rather confusing, and are NOT the LORD's WORD These are the main excuses that unbelievers give in rejecting the Lord.

Some of these unbelievers are honestly searching for answers, even though the majority of unbelievers do not want personal answers themselves nor answers given out to others. Non belief is the RELIGION of most of the unbelievers, and they persue it with a vengaence, just as with the religionists. As both camps use their belief system to prop up their self esteem and promote their own self righteousness.
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Re: Should Christian Churches bash 'gays' ?

Postby Fancy » Jun 18th, 2019, 6:54 am

That didn't address my question nor my statement.
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