So any evidence of Noah's Flood?

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So any evidence of Noah's Flood?

Postby capleton » Jul 17th, 2019, 7:20 pm

Despite constantly asking this question, creationists have not been able to give a coherent answer. A coherent answer is not "well other cultures have Flood Myths" or just asserting that it is true because the Bible says so.

So any evidence of Noah's Flood, geological or otherwise?
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Re: So any evidence of Noah's Flood?

Postby Btfsplck » Jul 18th, 2019, 12:28 pm

I saw a seashell fossil up on a mountain. Does that count? [icon_lol2.gif]

Good luck capleton, there is no evidence, never has been, never will be.

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Re: So any evidence of Noah's Flood?

Postby alanjh595 » Jul 18th, 2019, 12:47 pm

Btfsplck wrote:I saw a seashell fossil up on a mountain. Does that count? [icon_lol2.gif]

Good luck capleton, there is no evidence, never has been, never will be.


I concur. It's all just another story of myth and fiction.
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Re: So any evidence of Noah's Flood?

Postby Merry » Jul 18th, 2019, 12:57 pm

The Smithsonian suggests the following
The scientific version of Noah's flood actually starts long before that, back during the last great glaciation some 20,000 years ago.

This was a time when the earth looked very different from what we are used to today. Thick ice sheets extended down from the North Pole as far as Chicago and New York City. All that water had to come from somewhere, so ocean levels were about 400 feet lower than they are today. In essence, water that evaporated from the oceans fell as snow (which was compacted into glacial ice) rather than rain (which would flow back and replenish the oceans as it does now). The East Coast of the United States was 75 to 150 miles farther out than it is today, and places like Manhattan and Baltimore would have been inland cities. During this period, meltwater from the European glaciers flowed down to the Black Sea basin, then out through a river channel into the Mediterranean. Because the Mediterranean is connected to the world ocean at Gibraltar, it was also 400 feet lower than it is today, so this flow of fresh water through the Black Sea was downhill.

Two geologists at Columbia University's Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory have offered a new theory of what happened next. William Ryan and Walter Pitman, in Noah's Flood (Simon & Schuster), postulate that as time went on, the world warmed, the glaciers retreated and meltwater from the European glaciers began to flow north into the North Sea, depriving the Black Sea of its main source of replenishment. The level of the Black Sea began to drop, and most of the area around its northern boundary — the area adjacent to present-day Crimea and the Sea of Azov — became dry land. At this point, the level of the Black Sea was several hundred feet below that of the Mediterranean, and the two were separated by the barrier of the Bosporus, then dry land. This situation, with the world ocean rising while the Black Sea was falling, could not last forever. Eventually, like a bathtub overflowing, the Mediterranean had to pour through into the Black Sea basin.

The idea that ocean basins can flood catastrophically during periods of rising sea levels is nothing new in geology. Five million years ago, long before there were any humans around, just such an event occurred. The level of the Atlantic Ocean had dropped, or some tectonic event had occurred, with the result that water could no longer get through, and the Mediterranean gradually shrank down to a desert spotted with a few salty bits of ocean. Subsequently, when either the Atlantic rose again or another geological change took place, ocean water began pouring back into the former sea. The basin filled, and the present-day Mediterranean was created.

We know such things because sediments reveal history. Ryan and Pitman began taking cores of the present-day Black Sea. The cores seemed to be telling a strange story indeed, particularly in the northern areas. At the very bottom of the cores, dozens of feet below the present seafloor, they found layered mud typical of river deltas.

Carbon-dating of shells in this mud indicates that it was laid down between 18,000 and 8,600 years ago. This data showed that an area of the Black Sea about the size of Florida might have been much like the lower Mississippi Delta today — rich farmland with an abundant supply of fresh water.

Directly above the layers of mud is a layer of what Pitman calls "shell hash" — an inch-thick layer of broken shells — overlain by several feet of fine sediment of the type being brought into the Black Sea by rivers today. The shells in the "hash" are typical of what was in the Black Sea when it was a body of fresh water. The fine sediments contain evidence of saltwater species previously unknown in the Black Sea. It is the interpretation of these layers that tells us what happened on that inevitable day when rising sea levels in the Mediterranean reached the base of the sediments at the bottom of the Bosporus — and all hell broke loose.

When the Mediterranean began to flow northward, it "popped the plug" and pushed those sediments into a "tongue" of loose sediment on the bottom of what would become the present-day Black Sea (this tongue can still be seen in cores taken from the ocean bottom in that area). As the flow of water increased, it began to cut into the bedrock itself. The rock in this area is broken — Pitman calls it "trashy" — and even today rockslides are a major engineering problem for roads cut into the cliffs alongside the Bosporus. The incoming water eventually dug a channel more than 300 feet deep as it poured into the Black Sea basin, changing it from a freshwater lake to a saltwater ocean. In this scenario, the mud beneath the shell hash represents sediments from the rivers that fed the freshwater lake, the shell hash the remains of the animals that lived in that lake, and the layers above it the result of the saltwater incursion.

It was this event that Pitman and Ryan believe could be the flood recorded in the Book of Genesis. The salt water poured through the deepening channel, creating a waterfall 200 times the volume of Niagara Falls (anyone who has ever traveled to the base of the falls on the Maid of the Mist will have a sense of the power involved). In a single day enough water came through the channel to cover Manhattan to a depth at least two times the height of the World Trade Center, and the roar of the cascading water would have been audible at least 100 miles away. Anyone living in the fertile farmlands on the northern rim of the sea would have had the harrowing experience of seeing the boundary of the ocean move inland at the rate of a mile a day.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science- ... 102813115/
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Re: So any evidence of Noah's Flood?

Postby oldtrucker » Jul 18th, 2019, 1:06 pm

capleton wrote:So any evidence of Noah's Flood, geological or otherwise?


Yes. Every time that Glacial Lake Agassiz let loose and caused seal levels to rise. Lots of under water archeological sites around the world.
Noah's flood never happened of course, but to the people that saw the tide come in one day, and not stop coming in until the lands/ villages they lived in were under water...it would have seemed like the end of the world.
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Re: So any evidence of Noah's Flood?

Postby youjustcomplain » Jul 18th, 2019, 2:16 pm

oldtrucker wrote:Noah's flood never happened of course...


I don't see evidence to support a global flood. I don't take the stories of the bible at face value. I'm an atheist.
Most Christians likely don't believe in a global flood as some have interpretted from the bible. But I'm willing to bet that there are a LOT of Christians who believe that some very large scale world wide flood did occur whether science can support it or not.
Then there are the remaining believers who seem to feel that it's true if it's in the bible.

For you, "of course" it didn't happen. I agree. It didn't, and no matter how much people of the time may have thought it was a world wide flood, how could they begin to know?

Someone had a flood a few thousand years ago in Asia, Europe or Africa. How would they even begin to know if North America was underwater? They had no way of communicating to North America. Hell, how would they begin to know if people 1,000 miles away experienced the same flood? They wouldn't know because they couldn't.


capleton wrote:So any evidence of Noah's Flood, geological or otherwise?

Do you feel a little dirty asking this question? You know the evidence to support the flood told in the bible doesn't exist. Do you ever feel like maybe you're accomplishing nothing and that you're just baiting people to share their beliefs? There is a reason why people of faith often can't stand atheists. Just remember, they believe what they believe based on faith, not based on science. Why do you/we attempt to have them prove their faith by our measurement of truth?
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Re: So any evidence of Noah's Flood?

Postby capleton » Jul 18th, 2019, 3:16 pm

youjustcomplain wrote:
oldtrucker wrote:Noah's flood never happened of course...


I don't see evidence to support a global flood. I don't take the stories of the bible at face value. I'm an atheist.
Most Christians likely don't believe in a global flood as some have interpretted from the bible. But I'm willing to bet that there are a LOT of Christians who believe that some very large scale world wide flood did occur whether science can support it or not.
Then there are the remaining believers who seem to feel that it's true if it's in the bible.

For you, "of course" it didn't happen. I agree. It didn't, and no matter how much people of the time may have thought it was a world wide flood, how could they begin to know?

Someone had a flood a few thousand years ago in Asia, Europe or Africa. How would they even begin to know if North America was underwater? They had no way of communicating to North America. Hell, how would they begin to know if people 1,000 miles away experienced the same flood? They wouldn't know because they couldn't.


capleton wrote:So any evidence of Noah's Flood, geological or otherwise?

Do you feel a little dirty asking this question? You know the evidence to support the flood told in the bible doesn't exist. Do you ever feel like maybe you're accomplishing nothing and that you're just baiting people to share their beliefs? There is a reason why people of faith often can't stand atheists. Just remember, they believe what they believe based on faith, not based on science. Why do you/we attempt to have them prove their faith by our measurement of truth?


Hey they are the ones who are insisting the story is true. If I never asked questions then I would still be a church goer swallowing the bs the pastors and Bible say.
Last edited by capleton on Jul 18th, 2019, 3:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: So any evidence of Noah's Flood?

Postby capleton » Jul 18th, 2019, 3:19 pm

Merry wrote:The Smithsonian suggests the following
The scientific version of Noah's flood actually starts long before that, back during the last great glaciation some 20,000 years ago.

This was a time when the earth looked very different from what we are used to today. Thick ice sheets extended down from the North Pole as far as Chicago and New York City. All that water had to come from somewhere, so ocean levels were about 400 feet lower than they are today. In essence, water that evaporated from the oceans fell as snow (which was compacted into glacial ice) rather than rain (which would flow back and replenish the oceans as it does now). The East Coast of the United States was 75 to 150 miles farther out than it is today, and places like Manhattan and Baltimore would have been inland cities. During this period, meltwater from the European glaciers flowed down to the Black Sea basin, then out through a river channel into the Mediterranean. Because the Mediterranean is connected to the world ocean at Gibraltar, it was also 400 feet lower than it is today, so this flow of fresh water through the Black Sea was downhill.

Two geologists at Columbia University's Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory have offered a new theory of what happened next. William Ryan and Walter Pitman, in Noah's Flood (Simon & Schuster), postulate that as time went on, the world warmed, the glaciers retreated and meltwater from the European glaciers began to flow north into the North Sea, depriving the Black Sea of its main source of replenishment. The level of the Black Sea began to drop, and most of the area around its northern boundary — the area adjacent to present-day Crimea and the Sea of Azov — became dry land. At this point, the level of the Black Sea was several hundred feet below that of the Mediterranean, and the two were separated by the barrier of the Bosporus, then dry land. This situation, with the world ocean rising while the Black Sea was falling, could not last forever. Eventually, like a bathtub overflowing, the Mediterranean had to pour through into the Black Sea basin.

The idea that ocean basins can flood catastrophically during periods of rising sea levels is nothing new in geology. Five million years ago, long before there were any humans around, just such an event occurred. The level of the Atlantic Ocean had dropped, or some tectonic event had occurred, with the result that water could no longer get through, and the Mediterranean gradually shrank down to a desert spotted with a few salty bits of ocean. Subsequently, when either the Atlantic rose again or another geological change took place, ocean water began pouring back into the former sea. The basin filled, and the present-day Mediterranean was created.

We know such things because sediments reveal history. Ryan and Pitman began taking cores of the present-day Black Sea. The cores seemed to be telling a strange story indeed, particularly in the northern areas. At the very bottom of the cores, dozens of feet below the present seafloor, they found layered mud typical of river deltas.

Carbon-dating of shells in this mud indicates that it was laid down between 18,000 and 8,600 years ago. This data showed that an area of the Black Sea about the size of Florida might have been much like the lower Mississippi Delta today — rich farmland with an abundant supply of fresh water.

Directly above the layers of mud is a layer of what Pitman calls "shell hash" — an inch-thick layer of broken shells — overlain by several feet of fine sediment of the type being brought into the Black Sea by rivers today. The shells in the "hash" are typical of what was in the Black Sea when it was a body of fresh water. The fine sediments contain evidence of saltwater species previously unknown in the Black Sea. It is the interpretation of these layers that tells us what happened on that inevitable day when rising sea levels in the Mediterranean reached the base of the sediments at the bottom of the Bosporus — and all hell broke loose.

When the Mediterranean began to flow northward, it "popped the plug" and pushed those sediments into a "tongue" of loose sediment on the bottom of what would become the present-day Black Sea (this tongue can still be seen in cores taken from the ocean bottom in that area). As the flow of water increased, it began to cut into the bedrock itself. The rock in this area is broken — Pitman calls it "trashy" — and even today rockslides are a major engineering problem for roads cut into the cliffs alongside the Bosporus. The incoming water eventually dug a channel more than 300 feet deep as it poured into the Black Sea basin, changing it from a freshwater lake to a saltwater ocean. In this scenario, the mud beneath the shell hash represents sediments from the rivers that fed the freshwater lake, the shell hash the remains of the animals that lived in that lake, and the layers above it the result of the saltwater incursion.

It was this event that Pitman and Ryan believe could be the flood recorded in the Book of Genesis. The salt water poured through the deepening channel, creating a waterfall 200 times the volume of Niagara Falls (anyone who has ever traveled to the base of the falls on the Maid of the Mist will have a sense of the power involved). In a single day enough water came through the channel to cover Manhattan to a depth at least two times the height of the World Trade Center, and the roar of the cascading water would have been audible at least 100 miles away. Anyone living in the fertile farmlands on the northern rim of the sea would have had the harrowing experience of seeing the boundary of the ocean move inland at the rate of a mile a day.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science- ... 102813115/


The "scientific" version of Noah's Flood? That is laughable, there is no such term. 20000 years ago is to far for the Noah story, so the dates don't make sense and this article does not explain how Noah acquired each "kind" on a magical boat.
Last edited by capleton on Jul 18th, 2019, 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: So any evidence of Noah's Flood?

Postby capleton » Jul 18th, 2019, 3:20 pm

oldtrucker wrote:
capleton wrote:So any evidence of Noah's Flood, geological or otherwise?


Yes. Every time that Glacial Lake Agassiz let loose and caused seal levels to rise. Lots of under water archeological sites around the world.
Noah's flood never happened of course, but to the people that saw the tide come in one day, and not stop coming in until the lands/ villages they lived in were under water...it would have seemed like the end of the world.


So you admit it never happened, I guess this thread is pretty much done now.
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Re: So any evidence of Noah's Flood?

Postby Ka-El » Jul 18th, 2019, 4:19 pm

Damn autocorrect; I'm sick and tired of your shirt.
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Re: So any evidence of Noah's Flood?

Postby capleton » Jul 18th, 2019, 5:21 pm

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Re: So any evidence of Noah's Flood?

Postby Bsuds » Jul 18th, 2019, 6:25 pm

I have puddles in front of my house. Obviously leftover from the great flood. :biggrin:
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Re: So any evidence of Noah's Flood?

Postby Ka-El » Jul 19th, 2019, 7:54 am

capleton wrote: All of those are obviously quack websites.

Yes, ABC News. Obviously a quack website. :smt045

https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/evide ... d=17884533
Damn autocorrect; I'm sick and tired of your shirt.

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Re: So any evidence of Noah's Flood?

Postby capleton » Jul 19th, 2019, 5:27 pm

None of that is evidence that a 900 year old guy took 2 of each kind in a magic boat, sorry
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Re: So any evidence of Noah's Flood?

Postby DetectivePikachu » Jul 19th, 2019, 8:18 pm

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