Lake Country Church: Not gay accepting?

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Sparki55
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Re: Lake Country Church: Not gay accepting?

Post by Sparki55 »

TheLiteralKingofEngland wrote: Nov 17th, 2021, 4:42 pm The churches ARE seeking out these people. That's a prominent point of the article - the churches say they're accepting of homosexuality to draw in these alleged sinners, then comes the conversion-therapy promotion.

And being gay isn't a "belief." I don't know where you're getting this from.
The church believes being gay isn't following the word of god, that's a belief. I'm not saying gay people choose to be gay.

Yes, they promote they are accepting. Did they knock on her door and feed conversion therapy pamphlets to her or did she seek out a church, join them and then was disappointed they would go against their teachings? Huge difference.
TheLiteralKingofEngland
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Re: Lake Country Church: Not gay accepting?

Post by TheLiteralKingofEngland »

Sparki55 wrote: Nov 17th, 2021, 4:48 pm The church believes being gay isn't following the word of god, that's a belief. I'm not saying gay people choose to be gay.
Which is discriminatory nonsense that has no place in society. Like I said before, it's the same as saying being black isn't following God.
Sparki55 wrote: Nov 17th, 2021, 4:48 pm Yes, they promote they are accepting. Did they knock on her door and feed conversion therapy pamphlets to her or did she seek out a church, join them and then was disappointed they would go against their teachings? Huge difference.
You really don't see a problem with deception? You yourself accept that they marketed themselves as accepting. Why are you absolving them from lying and then promoting dangerous therapies?
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Sparki55
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Re: Lake Country Church: Not gay accepting?

Post by Sparki55 »

JLives wrote: Nov 17th, 2021, 4:43 pm If an organization does not want to follow human rights codes and discriminate against LBGTQ individuals they can damn well fund it themselves. ALL of these churches, mosques, temples, synagogues etc. should be paying taxes.
Can't argue that they should pay taxes, no issues there.
Sparki55
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Re: Lake Country Church: Not gay accepting?

Post by Sparki55 »

TheLiteralKingofEngland wrote: Nov 17th, 2021, 4:54 pm You really don't see a problem with deception? You yourself accept that they marketed themselves as accepting. Why are you absolving them from lying and then promoting dangerous therapies?
They promoted that they accept members who are gay, they didn't promise not to preach what their book says.

Conversion therapy is banned, no? So if they are using it then charge them.
TheLiteralKingofEngland
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Re: Lake Country Church: Not gay accepting?

Post by TheLiteralKingofEngland »

Sparki55 wrote: Nov 17th, 2021, 5:08 pm
TheLiteralKingofEngland wrote: Nov 17th, 2021, 4:54 pm You really don't see a problem with deception? You yourself accept that they marketed themselves as accepting. Why are you absolving them from lying and then promoting dangerous therapies?
They promoted that they accept members who are gay, they didn't promise not to preach what their book says.

Conversion therapy is banned, no? So if they are using it then charge them.
lol, so it's perfectly acceptable to double-cross gay citizens. "We're accepting of gay people.......oh but you should read the fine print that stipulates we're not accepting at all and will try to convert you in a process that will probably lead to you committing suicide."
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Sparki55
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Re: Lake Country Church: Not gay accepting?

Post by Sparki55 »

TheLiteralKingofEngland wrote: Nov 17th, 2021, 5:12 pm lol, so it's perfectly acceptable to double-cross gay citizens. "We're accepting of gay people.......oh but you should read the fine print that stipulates we're not accepting at all and will try to convert you in a process that will probably lead to you committing suicide."
Conversion therapy is banned, so no risk of suicide from illegal harmful "therapy".

Why don't you dress up like a Muslim and then try and join Christianity while refusing to remove your ceremonial outfit? Then cry discrimination when the church tries to convert you to their way of teaching.

Nobody is forcing anyone to join a church. It's not an essential service.
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Re: Lake Country Church: Not gay accepting?

Post by TheLiteralKingofEngland »

^If you read the article, you’d see the conversion practices are ongoing but simply called something else.

And I don’t see how the Muslim comments relate to the point about a church lying and then double-crossing someone. You’re conflating completely separate issues.
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youjustcomplain
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Re: Lake Country Church: Not gay accepting?

Post by youjustcomplain »

Sparki55 wrote: Because something is offered a tax break it must change it's beliefs to accommodate everything, even if goes against the religions beliefs? Yeah, not buying it. How about don't join a church that doesn't accept your own beliefs.

Maybe you should try joining a mosque and reading the bible there and then whine when they send you literature on the Quran.
Noone said anything about tax break meaning change of belief. Thats not the issue.
Noone is attacking Christianity specifically. mosque's are just as much in the firing line.

Please don't think that the Christian faith is the only group in the spotlight. All monotheistic faith groups seem to be on spectrum of intolerance towards beliefs outside of their own. The issue isn't that Christians think homosexuality is a sin. The issue is that they walk a fine line between spreading hate and intolerance towards groups of people in society, while getting benefits directly from government. This means that government supports the church when it does awful things to people. That is the issue.

I have no issue with Christians believing anything. Christians can continue to believe a wide variety of awfulness form the bible. There is no reason why anyone should care about what I think when it comes to their faith. Just as I don't care what Christians think about my lack of faith. There is a truce there. :) But I don't get funded or supported by government. I don't have a government supported safe place where I can spread my hate and intolerance towards others in society.

All that said, I used harsh language. I'm under no misconceptions around the good that churches do in society. I fully recognize that churches/mosque's do have a positive affect on communities too; It's not all bad. But as long as they're taking government hand-outs, I think they need to be accountable to those who are giving the handout; tax payers. As a tax payer, I don't want to see my tax dollars supporting churches IF they are permitted to be intolerant and uninclusive.
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Re: Lake Country Church: Not gay accepting?

Post by youjustcomplain »

AtlantisKelowna post wrote: The only thing that truly needs to go is the attitudes of people who are overly concerned with someone's religious choice. It's none of your business.
Disagree. Religious beliefs are protected and for good reason. It would be thought police to treat this differently. However, this only goes so far. I can't have a child bride because it's my religious choice. I can't have slaves just because of my religious choice. The religious are free to believe in those things, and many others, (mostly good probably), but not all choices made are protected by religious freedoms. There may come a day when the intolerance and unacceptance of homosexuality will be treated as hate speech and be illegal. We're not there yet, but we slowly outgrow a lot of the awful things once supported and taught in Churches, (and in society as a whole)
AtlantisKelowna post wrote: If you do not believe that's fine if you do that's fine as well. Who are you to dictate people's religious choices or beliefs?
As long as a church is getting government support through tax breaks, all tax payers have every right to criticize what goes on in those institutions. Not with individuals beliefs, but the actual acts that take place. If churches want more impunity to public scrutiny, then they need to stop accepting tax breaks.

AtlantisKelowna post wrote: I could make a similar argument in regard to the LGBTQ community demanding you conform to their belief or be ostracized as there are many instances of this happening. Just because you choose to live a certain way does not mean others need to agree with you. Focus on your own life, worry about your own problems and use what time you have to enjoy life. Simple
Sorry, can you elaborate? what beliefs do the LGBTQ community share?
Keep in mind, the LGBTQ community consists of everyone who identifies as being LGBTQ. There is no pope. No reference text such as a bible telling them what to believe. No weekly gatherings with a leader. They aren't a flock. They don't share a common belief system.
What they do have is a common problem; Unacceptance in society as a whole, and that is typically more clear/obvious in right wing, conservative, religious regions.

Nobody is asking you to agree with anyone in the LGBTQ community. If they "choose" to live a lifestyle you don't agree with, they don't care. But what they seem to want from you is more in line with apathy, than what they get now which is contempt.
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Re: Lake Country Church: Not gay accepting?

Post by youjustcomplain »

Sparki55 wrote: The church believes being gay isn't following the word of god, that's a belief. I'm not saying gay people choose to be gay.
But how is is not gods intention if the person isn't choosing to be gay?
If we are to accept that gay people are that way irrespective of their choice, then they were made that way. Doesn't god take some responsibility for making people gay?
If god made them straight and they choose to be gay, (this is no longer widely believed thankfully), then I understand why believers would be so against homosexuality. However most believers, like you Sparki, don't seem to believe that gay people are choosing to be gay.

Did god make them the way they are or not?
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Re: Lake Country Church: Not gay accepting?

Post by barianqueen »

Sparki55 wrote: Nov 17th, 2021, 4:48 pm I'm not saying gay people choose to be gay.
I'm confused. Then why did you type this part?
Sparki55 wrote: Nov 17th, 2021, 4:39 pm If someone reaches out to join a church that has a history of not agreeing with a certain beliefs, why is it the churches fault that you try and force your beliefs on them?
If being gay isn't a choice or belief then what belief is this lady attempting to force on the church?

Is this some sort of pretzel situation where being gay isn't a choice but living a gay life is a choice or something?
Last edited by barianqueen on Nov 18th, 2021, 9:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
Sparki55
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Re: Lake Country Church: Not gay accepting?

Post by Sparki55 »

youjustcomplain wrote: Nov 18th, 2021, 9:09 am But how is is not gods intention if the person isn't choosing to be gay?
If we are to accept that gay people are that way irrespective of their choice, then they were made that way. Doesn't god take some responsibility for making people gay?
If god made them straight and they choose to be gay, (this is no longer widely believed thankfully), then I understand why believers would be so against homosexuality. However most believers, like you Sparki, don't seem to believe that gay people are choosing to be gay.

Did god make them the way they are or not?
I'm not religious, I have no idea. Just baffles me that someone would want to join a group that doesn't support their lifestyle.
Sparki55
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Re: Lake Country Church: Not gay accepting?

Post by Sparki55 »

barianqueen wrote: Nov 18th, 2021, 9:42 am If being gay isn't a choice or belief then what belief is this lady attempting to force on the church?

Is this some sort of pretzel situation where being gay isn't a choice but living a gay life is a choice or something?
Being gay isn't a choice, that's been agreed upon in our society.

The church's belief is that nobody should act out their gay behavior as it is somehow a sin.

Anyone is free to believe anything they want. What they aren't allowed to do is seek out and harass people.
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Re: Lake Country Church: Not gay accepting?

Post by TheLiteralKingofEngland »

Sparki55 wrote: Nov 18th, 2021, 11:30 am
youjustcomplain wrote: Nov 18th, 2021, 9:09 am But how is is not gods intention if the person isn't choosing to be gay?
If we are to accept that gay people are that way irrespective of their choice, then they were made that way. Doesn't god take some responsibility for making people gay?
If god made them straight and they choose to be gay, (this is no longer widely believed thankfully), then I understand why believers would be so against homosexuality. However most believers, like you Sparki, don't seem to believe that gay people are choosing to be gay.

Did god make them the way they are or not?
I'm not religious, I have no idea. Just baffles me that someone would want to join a group that doesn't support their lifestyle.
Being gay isn’t a lifestyle and as noted numerous times, the woman specifically asked the church if it was accepting of homosexuality. So in fact, she did not want to join a group disapproving of her right to exist as a gay person. She never sought to enforce her belief systems on a church either. I don’t know why these facts are being ignored in favour of suggesting it’s acceptable for a church to flat-out lie.
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Sparki55
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Re: Lake Country Church: Not gay accepting?

Post by Sparki55 »

TheLiteralKingofEngland wrote: Nov 18th, 2021, 11:51 am Being gay isn’t a lifestyle and as noted numerous times, the woman specifically asked the church if it was accepting of homosexuality. So in fact, she did not want to join a group disapproving of her right to exist as a gay person. She never sought to enforce her belief systems on a church either. I don’t know why these facts are being ignored in favour of suggesting it’s acceptable for a church to flat-out lie.
Why don't you apply for a role in a movie that is requesting race "y" and you are race "x". No matter what you do you will not get the role. That's not discriminatory and completely legal. So why join a church that doesn't want gay people? Clearly their mission is to follow the bible.

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