Kelowna and Religion

Is there a god? What is the meaning of life?
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CrystalCity
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Re: Kelowna and Religion

Post by CrystalCity »

youjustcomplain wrote: Oct 27th, 2022, 12:23 pm Atheism is the lack of belief in god or gods.
Tell me please. How did someones lack of belief in a god make them do evil?

Everyone can do bad things. everyone which includes the religious and non religious. Atheists are not exempt from doing awful things. But, I don't understand how someone could do awful things because of their atheism. Please explain this.

Take something like rape. Everyone knows it's an awful thing to do to someone else. Depending on the passage from the bible, you can find lines that seem to condone it. As such, a Christian *could* argue that the bible supports it or that Jesus wants me to do it. There is no equal in atheism. An atheist can still commit the rape, but it couldn't be done because of their atheism. That just doesn't make sense.
I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm simply saying that evil was done under Stalin's attempts to stamp out religion in the USSR. Anyone can abuse power in the name of whatever ideological belief or disbelief they choose. It concerns me when opinions become polarized, and I am guilty of writing my previous post in such a manner, so my apologies. As a spiritual person I feel that drop in Christianity is knock on the head to those leaders that they aren't practicing what they preach, and in fact the vast majority of Atheists do a better job of practicing the compassion that Christians profess. If anything, a Christian saying the "God is going to [fill in the blank]" is much more a "use in vain", than swearing, because it is a cop out for meeting their own responsibilities.
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youjustcomplain
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Re: Kelowna and Religion

Post by youjustcomplain »

CrystalCity wrote: Oct 27th, 2022, 12:53 pm If anything, a Christian saying the "God is going to [fill in the blank]" is much more a "use in vain", than swearing, because it is a cop out for meeting their own responsibilities.
Music to my ears. How I've always felt.

For Stalin. He may very well have done his very best to stamp out religious thought and belief. It's an impossible task and there is no benefit. Doing so because he doesn't believe just isn't the case. You seem to understand that, but this comes up often, mostly by the religious trying to argue that Atheism is bad for the world. Just as someone doesn't massacre people because they believe in god, atheists don't massacre people because they don't. People massacre people because of an ideology. Extremists exist everywhere and will justify their view and actions on whatever sources they choose. Atheism is one that has no source. There is no book, no weekly gatherings, no common set of beliefs to base an extremist point of view on.

Anti-theists though seem to be very different, and they give all atheists a bad name.
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Re: Kelowna and Religion

Post by ekir8 »

youjustcomplain wrote: Oct 27th, 2022, 12:23 pm
CrystalCity wrote: Oct 27th, 2022, 9:17 am I'm surprised given the Conservative mindset that still seems to dominate Kelowna. There's been evil done in the name of Atheism too...look at the USSR under Stalin.
Atheism is the lack of belief in god or gods.
Tell me please. How did someones lack of belief in a god make them do evil?

Everyone can do bad things. everyone which includes the religious and non religious. Atheists are not exempt from doing awful things. But, I don't understand how someone could do awful things because of their atheism. Please explain this.
To play the devils advocate (is that a pun? idk), just look to the words of Jeffry Dahmer. Here's a couple quotes:

"If it all happens naturalistically, what's the need for a God? Can't I set my own rules? Who owns me? I own myself."

"If a person doesn't think there is a God to be accountable to, then what's the point of trying to modify your behavior to keep it within acceptable ranges? That's how I thought anyway. I always believed the theory of evolution as truth, that we all just came from the slime. When we, when we died, you know, that was it, there is nothing."


Or the chilling quote from Carl Panzram:

"I don't believe in man, God nor Devil. I hate the whole damned human race, including myself… I preyed upon the weak, the harmless and the unsuspecting. This lesson I was taught by others: Might makes right. "

The previous poster noted what took place in the USSR. Stalin, Trotsky, Lenin, Kaganovich, Yagoda, Blokhin and so on. Prolific murderers and staunch atheists. Other notable monsters of history who were atheists are: Hitler, Ho Chi Minh, Mao Zedung, Pol Pot, Mussolini...the list goes on and on and on. I wonder if their ease at eradicating human life was spawned by the belief that there is absolutely no reckoning, nothing will ever need to be atoned to in the end.

Everyone remembers the Columbine massacre. Both of the boys were steadfast atheists, with stories of them asking kids if they believed in God. If they said yes, they were murdered. Eric Harris wore a shirt that said, "Natural Selection" on the day of the shootings.

Point being, if there is a prevalent mindset that we are here by random chance and our lives are fleeting and ultimately meaningless, what is to stop someone from acting out their delusions of grandeur? Perhaps they begin to believe that the true path of righteousness lies in the satiation of the appetites of the self? Materialistic gain is the ultimate focus because, after all, the material is all we have.

You may be an atheist and have never had a greedy, wrathful or lustful desire in your life. Perhaps the thought of being so monstrous has never crossed your mind. But just because you are equipped with an innate moral compass doesn't mean everyone is. And without the belief in a moral standard, how can you be sure that a person wouldn't cut another person's throat in the blink of an eye if they thought they would benefit even in some small measure?

There is a book that was banned ages ago called "Might is Right" by Ragnar Redbeard. You can still find pdf copies online. It is a testament to atheism and Natural Law. It pulls no punches when it comes to the need for doing away with imaginary deities and rules, rather you are governed by your own needs and desires. Natural Law is the only honorable way forward. Natural Law being exactly what the title says: might is right. If you're the biggest dog, you make the rules.

I know the old story of wars being fought because of religion, I get it. There are immeasurable other examples of the dark side of religion, from the unspeakable things done under the watch of the Catholic Church to the abusive father who gets to feel redeemed for his disgusting behavior just because he goes to church on Sundays. It's a tool that has been used for power by hypocrites who pour over interpretations, using them like spiritual loopholes. But the argument can be made that if you use other people's belief in a higher power for an ends to your own desires, do you really believe in God or are you an atheist who thinks it's justified to manipulate low IQ dupes? Perhaps religion in those cases is not a wholesome and pious gathering but rather an atheistic tool for material gain? Or perhaps it has become the inversion of God and has crossed over into Satanism? I don't know, just spit-balling.

There are many good hearted people who don't believe in God. Most of the world, however, does believe in God. I wonder if suddenly that belief evaporated completely, what kind of world we would find ourselves in if nobody believed in an objective moral standard, especially as times begin to get more difficult and uncertain. Would we start to slide into a world governed by Natural Law? If so, do you think you're a big enough dog to survive it?
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alanjh595
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Re: Kelowna and Religion

Post by alanjh595 »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_r ... opulations
Capture 1.jpg
What percentage of Russia is Christian?

Christianity in Russia
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Christianity in Russia is the most widely professed religion in the country. The largest tradition is the Russian Orthodox Church.
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Sol316
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Re: Kelowna and Religion

Post by Sol316 »

When people assess the future of religion, an initial observation is that Western societies are becoming less religious.

But religious scholar Linda Woodhead takes issue with this popular idea. When people tick "no religion" on a census form that doesn't mean they've turned away from all belief, she told RN's Future Tense (a radio show from the Australian Broadcasting Corporation (ABC), Oct. 2/2021).

Instead it often just indicates that they no longer want to be identified with an established faith. Woodhead: "People in many cases are still spiritual, they still want lots of the goods that religion can offer, but in a way that's more personally meaningful for them."
Last edited by Sol316 on Oct 27th, 2022, 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Y-Wine
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Re: Kelowna and Religion

Post by Y-Wine »

I know a couple of Atheists that started praying when they developed life threatening illness'. Does that make them hypocrites or did they realize they need something in their lives to really matter? I found it rather humorous in their sudden change of attitude.
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CrystalCity
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Re: Kelowna and Religion

Post by CrystalCity »

ekir8 wrote: Oct 27th, 2022, 2:52 pm There are many good hearted people who don't believe in God. Most of the world, however, does believe in God. I wonder if suddenly that belief evaporated completely, what kind of world we would find ourselves in if nobody believed in an objective moral standard, especially as times begin to get more difficult and uncertain. Would we start to slide into a world governed by Natural Law? If so, do you think you're a big enough dog to survive it?
You've nailed a big part of having any faith, whether or not they believe or practice a religion:
  • Knowledge that there is more in life than yourself
    Wisdom in applying yourself appropriately through life
    Discernment in the values you find appropriate
    Fortitude to act within those values
    Humbleness to act kindly
    Wonder and Awe about what you can't control (like the sun going super nova)
    Gratitude towards those who can share experiences with
I hope that even in Natural Law the above list applies.
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alanjh595
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Re: Kelowna and Religion

Post by alanjh595 »

Therefore; it's "humous" that they found solace in prayer while in their last days alive?
solace
comfort or consolation in a time of distress or sadness.
Who cares what makes them feel better as they about to die ?
Whether it be morphine or GOD.
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MAPearce
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Re: Kelowna and Religion

Post by MAPearce »

CrystalCity wrote: Oct 27th, 2022, 9:17 am I'm surprised given the Conservative mindset that still seems to dominate Kelowna. There's been evil done in the name of Atheism too...look at the USSR under Stalin.
Yes , yes ... Stalin was a good "conservative" .........

Oh .. wait .. Stalin killed MILLIONS of his own people as a communist *bleep* greedy for total power ..

Any idiot knows that "Atheism" or any religion had NOTHING to do with that ......Never mind the "conservative" drivel .
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alanjh595
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Re: Kelowna and Religion

Post by alanjh595 »

MAPearce wrote: Oct 27th, 2022, 5:36 pm
CrystalCity wrote: Oct 27th, 2022, 9:17 am I'm surprised given the Conservative mindset that still seems to dominate Kelowna. There's been evil done in the name of Atheism too...look at the USSR under Stalin.
Yes , yes ... Stalin was a good "conservative" .........

Oh .. wait .. Stalin killed MILLIONS of his own people as a communist *bleep* greedy for total power ..

Any idiot knows that "Atheism" or any religion had NOTHING to do with that ......Never mind the "conservative" drivel .
Since there seems to be one that is so educated on Stalinism, maybe they could teach the rest of us as to their superior intellectual understanding of his concept.
Why did it ultimately fail ?
Stalinism

Stalinism is the means of governing and Marxist-Leninist policies implemented in the Soviet Union from 1927 to 1953 by Joseph Stalin. It included the creation of a one-party totalitarian police state, rapid industrialization, the theory of socialism in one country, collectivization of agriculture, intensification of class conflict, a cult of personality,[1][2] and subordination of the interests of foreign communist parties to those of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, deemed by Stalinism to be the leading vanguard party of communist revolution at the time.[3] After Stalin's death and the Khrushchev thaw, de-Stalinization began in the 1950s and 1960s, which caused the influence of Stalin’s ideology begin to wane in the USSR. The second wave of de-Stalinization started during Mikhail Gorbachev’s Soviet Glasnost.

Stalin's regime forcibly purged society of what it saw as threats to itself and its brand of communism (so-called "enemies of the people"), which included political dissidents, non-Soviet nationalists, the bourgeoisie, better-off peasants ("kulaks"),[4] and those of the working class who demonstrated "counter-revolutionary" sympathies.[5] This resulted in mass repression of such people and their families, including mass arrests, show trials, executions, and imprisonment in forced labour and concentration camps known as gulags.[6] The most notorious examples were the Great Purge and the Dekulakization campaign. Stalinism was also marked by militant atheism, mass anti-religious persecution,[7][8] and ethnic cleansing through forced deportations.[9] Some historians, such as Robert Service, have blamed Stalinist policies, particularly the collectivization policies, for causing famines such as the Holodomor.[7] Other historians and scholars disagree on the role of Stalinism.[10]
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alanjh595
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Re: Kelowna and Religion

Post by alanjh595 »

youjustcomplain wrote: Oct 27th, 2022, 12:23 pm
CrystalCity wrote: Oct 27th, 2022, 9:17 am I'm surprised given the Conservative mindset that still seems to dominate Kelowna. There's been evil done in the name of Atheism too...look at the USSR under Stalin.
Atheism is the lack of belief in god or gods.
Tell me please. How did someones lack of belief in a god make them do evil?

Everyone can do bad things. everyone which includes the religious and non religious. Atheists are not exempt from doing awful things. But, I don't understand how someone could do awful things because of their atheism. Please explain this.

Take something like rape. Everyone knows it's an awful thing to do to someone else. Depending on the passage from the bible, you can find lines that seem to condone it. As such, a Christian *could* argue that the bible supports it or that Jesus wants me to do it. There is no equal in atheism. An atheist can still commit the rape, but it couldn't be done because of their atheism. That just doesn't make sense.
Why do we have so many religious priests, pastors, clergy.....etc, .... being legally charged for rape and other indecent acts ?

Separation of church and state:
The first clause in the Bill of Rights states that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion.”
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MAPearce
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Re: Kelowna and Religion

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*removed*
Last edited by ferri on Oct 28th, 2022, 7:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Personal attack
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Re: Kelowna and Religion

Post by capleton »

youjustcomplain wrote: Oct 27th, 2022, 2:30 pm
CrystalCity wrote: Oct 27th, 2022, 12:53 pm If anything, a Christian saying the "God is going to [fill in the blank]" is much more a "use in vain", than swearing, because it is a cop out for meeting their own responsibilities.
Music to my ears. How I've always felt.

For Stalin. He may very well have done his very best to stamp out religious thought and belief. It's an impossible task and there is no benefit. Doing so because he doesn't believe just isn't the case. You seem to understand that, but this comes up often, mostly by the religious trying to argue that Atheism is bad for the world. Just as someone doesn't massacre people because they believe in god, atheists don't massacre people because they don't. People massacre people because of an ideology. Extremists exist everywhere and will justify their view and actions on whatever sources they choose. Atheism is one that has no source. There is no book, no weekly gatherings, no common set of beliefs to base an extremist point of view on.

Anti-theists though seem to be very different, and they give all atheists a bad name.
So you are the pope of atheists now? how does anti-theism give atheism a bad name? They don't go around mutilating women's genitals or bomb abortion clinics. If people are offended by questions and facts then to bad.
youjustcomplain
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Re: Kelowna and Religion

Post by youjustcomplain »

capleton wrote: Oct 28th, 2022, 2:03 am So you are the pope of atheists now? how does anti-theism give atheism a bad name? They don't go around mutilating women's genitals or bomb abortion clinics. If people are offended by questions and facts then to bad.
No, I make zero claims about being anything more than just an atheist. none. I don't speak for atheists, I speak for myself. I think many people are taught what an atheist is, in a way that paints the wrong picture.

Anti-theists are the type of non believers who know they're right and attack everyone else, (verbally here on the castanet forums) for having a belief that they don't share.
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Re: Kelowna and Religion

Post by motokelowna1 »

Hello ATHEIST here read the bible once and what a fairy tale. Written by men in dresses rewrote so many times to suit what ever age in history... Change religions due to what dictator is in power at the time.
I have worked with christians and found they are the worst ever to work with.
I have donated time energy and money to what i beleive are good causes , I help out at a seniors centre mowing lawns etc I do not spend time at some fake churches who seem to only help themselves....
It comes down to decency your upbringing so dont say Atheists are bad or killers these so called christians are worst .

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