Kelowna and Religion

Is there a god? What is the meaning of life?
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nucksRnum1
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Re: Kelowna and Religion

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Glorify God? How is that even possible? Even Paul had a thorn in his side that haunted him. Considering that they tied ropes to priests entering the inner sanctum because of a lack of glorification and purity and being smited - it shows that human actions don't glorify god.

As such, I don't agree that singing religious top 40 songs with words on a screen is "worship". It is simply the easy way out. And entertains the masses in chuches.
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nucksRnum1
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Re: Kelowna and Religion

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Hmmm
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Re: Kelowna and Religion

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It’s very easy to see what’s wrong with 100% of all false religions. That’s for sure.
I thought you said your dog doesn't bite....That's not my dog.
youjustcomplain
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Re: Kelowna and Religion

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Sol316 wrote: Nov 7th, 2022, 1:35 pm LOL! All you've done is to demonstrate the proverb: "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing". :smt045

Any Bible text without context is pretext.

...


47 "The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows. 48 But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked." -- NIV (New International Version):

In other words, a person with talents, wealth, knowledge, time, etc. is expected that use these things to glorify God and benefit others.
I make no claim to be an expert on your bible. I provided 4 of many awful parts of the bible. Again though, what I'm NOT saying here is that the entire bible is harmful. Just that it has ugly parts.

As for 47 and 48. I mean, you can "in other words" this all you want. It is clear.
Servants are to be beaten with many or few blows. Now, I'm going to imagine that Servant means slave and that beaten with any number of blows is a reference to beating your slaves. This is instruction and justification for beating slaves.

By todays standards, is owning other humans ok? Is beating people ok? If not, then this passage is evidence that the bible does not teach objective morality.

Any morality gleamed from this sort of line would have to be subjective and relevant only in the day it was written. Back when owning slaves and beating them was normal and totally ok in society.
Sol316
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Re: Kelowna and Religion

Post by Sol316 »

youjustcomplain wrote: Nov 8th, 2022, 9:11 am
Sol316 wrote: Nov 7th, 2022, 1:35 pm LOL! All you've done is to demonstrate the proverb: "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing". :smt045

Any Bible text without context is pretext.

...


47 "The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows. 48 But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked." -- NIV (New International Version):

In other words, a person with talents, wealth, knowledge, time, etc. is expected that use these things to glorify God and benefit others.
I make no claim to be an expert on your bible. I provided 4 of many awful parts of the bible. Again though, what I'm NOT saying here is that the entire bible is harmful. Just that it has ugly parts.

As for 47 and 48. I mean, you can "in other words" this all you want. It is clear.
Servants are to be beaten with many or few blows. Now, I'm going to imagine that Servant means slave and that beaten with any number of blows is a reference to beating your slaves. This is instruction and justification for beating slaves.

By todays standards, is owning other humans ok? Is beating people ok? If not, then this passage is evidence that the bible does not teach objective morality.

Any morality gleamed from this sort of line would have to be subjective and relevant only in the day it was written. Back when owning slaves and beating them was normal and totally ok in society.
I repeat: Any Bible text without context is pretext.

Do you know what a concordance is? eg. Strong's Exhaustive Concordance

Have you used more than one English version of the Bible when reading a particular verse (s) of scripture?

Have you used an online Interlinear Hebrew-English Bible, or an online Interlinear Greek-English Bible when reading a particular verse (s) of scripture?

eg.
Genesis 1
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/genesis/1.htm

Matthew 1
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/1.htm

As for slavery, google the article: Does the Bible Support Slavery? by Peter J. Williams.
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nucksRnum1
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Re: Kelowna and Religion

Post by nucksRnum1 »

Religion in America and interference by believers are trying to make a change that they are most familiar with. Authoritarianism. Because leaders in the church are allegedly chosen by god - you can't challenge them. Even if they diddle you as a kid. In this way, even a *bleep* grabber like Trump is beyond reproach.
youjustcomplain
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Re: Kelowna and Religion

Post by youjustcomplain »

Sol316 wrote: Nov 5th, 2022, 7:49 pm youjustcomplain wrote Nov. 3: "The Christian bible justifies a lot of bad. There is no objectivity to it."

Please explain, and give 3 or 4 examples from the Bible.
Sol316 wrote: Nov 8th, 2022, 4:00 pm Any Bible text without context is pretext.
I've given exactly what you asked for. Please explain the objective context to those 4 phrases from your bible. When I say Objective, I mean the meaning that is not up for interpretation. remember, it's not my statement that the Christian faith offers objective morality which can be scraped from the bible.
youjustcomplain
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Re: Kelowna and Religion

Post by youjustcomplain »

Sol316 wrote: Nov 8th, 2022, 4:00 pm As for slavery, google the article: Does the Bible Support Slavery? by Peter J. Williams.
First, before I read something on the internet, I like to know who the author is. I didn't spot this guy on Wikipedia though.
Do you have a biography for me so that I can learn more about why he'd have the opinion he has. Is he a Christian? Is it possible he's making every excuse he can find to justify why his favorite book is good, rather than ugly? Why his god is good, rather than evil or non existent?

From what I did read on that webpage was wordplay. Him claiming that the the word slave actually meant servant to lessen the impact of the word. Did it mean servant or slave? Who can say for sure. He can't. Were slaves used in that time? Yes. %100 they were. Other passages in the bible explain how to beat your slave. So lets imagine that his definition is correct and that these were just servants. Paid staff just helping a brother out. Are we to then ignore that the bible explains that the servant owners are well within their rights to beat these servants? If these were just servants, I wonder why they'd stick around for the beatings.
Sol316
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Re: Kelowna and Religion

Post by Sol316 »

youjustcomplain wrote: Nov 8th, 2022, 7:15 pm
Sol316 wrote: Nov 5th, 2022, 7:49 pm youjustcomplain wrote Nov. 3: "The Christian bible justifies a lot of bad. There is no objectivity to it."

Please explain, and give 3 or 4 examples from the Bible.
Sol316 wrote: Nov 8th, 2022, 4:00 pm Any Bible text without context is pretext.
I've given exactly what you asked for. Please explain the objective context to those 4 phrases from your bible. When I say Objective, I mean the meaning that is not up for interpretation. remember, it's not my statement that the Christian faith offers objective morality which can be scraped from the bible.
Because the existence of morality is not strictly provable, the argument can be rejected out-of-hand by atheists and Bible skeptics without being properly considered, regardless of how obvious it is that objective morality exists.

Read these articles by Stephen S. Jordan (a Bible teacher at Liberty Christian Academy, and curriculum developer/editor at Liberty University Online Academy):

"C. S. Lewis and 8 Reasons for Believing in Objective Morality"

"Objective Morality, the Nature of Guilt, and God’s Offer of Divine Forgiveness And Promise of Moral Transformation: A New Look at C. S. Lewis’s Moral Argument" (Parts 1 and 2)

Lewis’s moral argument begins with eight reasons for believing in the existence of objective morality, continues with the obvious fact that mankind is unable to adhere to such a moral standard, and concludes with a discussion of how only the Triune God of the Bible is able to account for it.
Sol316
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Re: Kelowna and Religion

Post by Sol316 »

youjustcomplain wrote: Nov 8th, 2022, 7:42 pm
Sol316 wrote: Nov 8th, 2022, 4:00 pm As for slavery, google the article: Does the Bible Support Slavery? by Peter J. Williams.
First, before I read something on the internet, I like to know who the author is. I didn't spot this guy on Wikipedia though.
Do you have a biography for me so that I can learn more about why he'd have the opinion he has. Is he a Christian? Is it possible he's making every excuse he can find to justify why his favorite book is good, rather than ugly? Why his god is good, rather than evil or non existent?

From what I did read on that webpage was wordplay. Him claiming that the the word slave actually meant servant to lessen the impact of the word. Did it mean servant or slave? Who can say for sure. He can't. Were slaves used in that time? Yes. %100 they were. Other passages in the bible explain how to beat your slave. So lets imagine that his definition is correct and that these were just servants. Paid staff just helping a brother out. Are we to then ignore that the bible explains that the servant owners are well within their rights to beat these servants? If these were just servants, I wonder why they'd stick around for the beatings.
Peter J. Williams is the Principal of Tyndale House (the international research centre and library for biblical studies in Cambridge, UK) and an affiliated lecturer, University of Cambridge.

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