Hockey Dorm hits financial hurdle

[hoot]

Hmmm, maybe this is a bigger deal than I thought.

That's why i started the thread. !!

Now if only twobits would see the light ...lol

Let's have an independant committee , say of RDOS directors to review the handling of this matter.?

The point behind all this is ,that Penticton maybe crying out for development in one form or another, but that doesn't mean council should cut corners , and they should be made aware that the rules are in place for a reason .
That's all I'm saying.

[twobits]

I have always seen the light. And yes it has become an unfortunate tangled mess. I still do not see what "rules" the city has breached. They claim to be covered for any liabilities and until prooven otherwise, I must take that at face value and trust their solicitor covered the bases. If you are as involved in development as you claim, you would know that granting an earthworks only start to beat frost at that time of year and prior to final closing is not that unusual. With a significant deposit. We need more info on this and I am sure it will unfold in time. It is a bit premature to start a lynching by committee.

Your parking lot valuations puzzle me. What lots are you referencing valued at 200k. Are they the same size? Are they revenue generating? Do they have direct access and egress onto Eckhart that the city lots do not enjoy. Are there site improvments such as site prep, aggregate, storm, lighting, curbing, sidewalks and asphalt that might impact assessed values. Hardly fair to compare those to raw undeveloped land. With your expertise, I shouldn't need to tell you what those things cost. But I could if you like.

[fluffy]

That's all I'm saying.

We should be so lucky.

[Assumed]

The bottom line is very simple.

No public servant (building department) would allow a project to go forward without all the i's and t's crossed. They would get fired. That is why the time lines are so long when dealing with any city for permits. The only way that this project got off the ground so quick, in my opinion, is that someone had to over rule the permits and the completion of the land sale. I don't think background checks were done. There is only one person at city hall that has this kind of clount and he also served on the council that approved the SOEC. History does repeat itself if we are not careful.

I doubt this lot will be cleaned up until it is sold.

[hoot]

We should be so lucky

Again with the cheap shot, why not discuss the matter at hand ? or at least express thanks to the posters here that have opened your eyes that something is not quite right with this whole boondoggle?.

Unfortunately two bits is obdurate as always . But nevertheless they are entitled to their opinion , even though everyone around them now understands ( including ( fluffy) that council need to get their act together when it comes to matters of this kind.


Only a fool would deny this whole matter needs a review .
The only good thing to come from all of this is, that the lots can now be put out to open tender , once they have been cleaned up, and hopefully sold at fair market value. And not to the first shyster that breezes into to town with tales of ambitious projects and money to burn .


PS TO two bits if you go to the BC assessments site you can compare side by side property values. Including those attached to parking lots.

[fluffy]

You really need to learn to lighten up hoot.

One thing that has come to mind is with all the litigation that is chasing this guy around, he must be a pretty smooth talker. In the beginning at least.

Oh, and whoever posted the newspaper article, thanks.

[Tero]

You really need to learn to lighten up hoot.

One thing that has come to mind is with all the litigation that is chasing this guy around, he must be a pretty smooth talker. In the beginning at least.

Oh, and whoever posted the newspaper article, thanks.

I posted it... though I was so mad I was shaking and it was hard to type!!!! How can people in this city sit by and watch this corruption go on? Who's sleeping with who (whom?) at City Hall?

[hoot]

In answer to some questions asked regarding the assessed value of the property “sold “ to the Okanagan Elite Hockey Association .

The property consists of 9 lots covering a total area of .546 hectares or 1.13 acres of prime commercial land. By my estimation this averages out at .12 acres per lot.
According to BC assessments there are four vacant gravel parking lots directly across the road from these properties each having the same size of .163 acres they are assessed at $271.000.00 apiece.

Single one story basic homes also in the 900 block Eckhardt standing on .15 acres, average out at an assessed value of $230,000.00 apiece. (Pretty basic I would imagine) and remember these are zoned for small lot residential use not commercial .

Allowing for the fact the 9 properties sold by the City were shortened somewhat by the widening of Eckhardt Ave what would you put as a fair assessed value of this property? The city reckons $100,000.00 a piece or half the assessed value of comparable properties.
That’s a hell of a deal wouldn’t you say? Let us hope that now they have the opportunity they will revisit the sale price on this land.
Ps one of my staff has absquatulated with my calculator so I stand corrected if any of my figuring is wonky.

[bipdl]

Yeup, another Penticton stairway to nowhere. Typical! It's enough to make even Summerland blush with jealousy.

What I wanna know is: Who's the 'Jack', in their desperation and blissful naivete, who actually thinks this sort of project doesn't require proper background checks prior to trading the cow for the three beans? Hey, you voted 'em in! Now whadda ya think? True visionary leadership indeed!

You're dreaming in technicolour if you actually believe the local trades who have, in good faith, done work on this project are going to see one red cent without lawsuits flying around. I truly, truly hope I'm wrong... but I doubt it.

ALL 'developers' are shysters! It's what they do... promise the sun, moon and stars.

[Static]

The guy is clearly a crook.

[glassmaster]

ALL 'developers' are shysters! It's what they do... promise the sun, moon and stars.

Wow ... that statement is painted with a very broad brush. Small-thinking (to say the least) to lump all developers in the category of shysters. Sounds like a statement that would come from somebody who doesn't want anything changed or developed. It takes vision and courage to create a quality development ... not sure who you think would accomplish this (other than a developer). There are bound to be some that are less than honest (or operating on a wing and a prayer) ... but that can be said of ANY profession. It is a big stretch to go from saying that the Hockey Dorm Development should be examined ... to saying that all developers are shysters.

[hoot]

Have to agree with glassmaster on this. I have known and done business with, quite a few developers over the years and in the main , as long as you take your time to check their bona fides you won't have too many troubles.

Just watched Mr. Reagan, "the hockey dorm developer ",on CHBC apparently he conned a number of Alberta people in investing in oil and gas exploration , he now says the exploration company has moved to the states and he will have trouble returning their investments to them. One guy is out $25K.
Seems like the City dodged a bullet with this guy, although our mayor says he will entertain any further proposals he has to offer. ……why?.

Incidentally, this guy collected $140k from the parents of the hockey players for their trip, and a glance at his balance sheet shows he is claiming he has spent $139k in expenses. !
Let us hope this is a lesson learned by our representatives on council.

[glassmaster]

That's great hoot ... I think we are thinking along the same lines. The 'developer' (and I use that term lightly) of the Hockey Dorms, may not have been as viable as he led the City to believe. Doesn't mean there is anything underhanded ... or that all developers are shady ......... an unfortunate situation that will be a learning experience for all.

[bipdl]

It takes vision and courage to create a quality development.

Agreed. Unfortunately, I see no evidence that 'developers' in this part of the world possess either.

They're all so intent on A) squeezing as much possible profit from their endeavours as is legally tolerated without regard to balanced overall community sustainability, aesthetic impact, or long term environmental viability (the 'smart growth' healthy living conditions kind, not the tree-hugger kind), despite whatever their lip service is to the contrary; and, B) remaining "inside the box" concerning what you call 'vision' (again, all in the interests of financial rewards, mostly for investors who care nothing about anything more than their own immediate and maximum ROI's... existing community sensitivities be damned).

Want a reason for ever increasing taxes? Look no further than having to recover the constantly escalating societal costs of maintaining the holy grail of perpetual growth that developers and their supporters worship and champion. Yet these same ones complain and resist having to eat the 'additional costs' of but a few obvious (though insufficient) infrastructure requirements purposed for the greater general community's best long term interests. (eg; Let's build a thousand new homes in the dry hills and let the taxpayers absorb the cost of a new hospital wing/police station/ambulance/fire protection/snow removal/school/transportation corridor upgrades, etc., etc., etc.) It's a chicken and egg arguement and the chickens have put all their eggs in one basket. Too bad the basket is falling apart from overuse by determined birdbrains who refuse to get it.

Me, small thinking? I don't think so! Blindered? Definitely not!

In fact, yes, I'd desperately love to see 'change' (not just the stupified continuation of the status-quo mindset).

So, who approved all the rink surfaces at the SOEC without considering that the OHS should pony up for a dorm for all the aspiring young NHLer's it brings into town. What's wrong with all the empty motel rooms at this time of year... not good enough?

Seems pretty obvious to me that the taxpayers of Penticton are gonna eventually be eating another loss (hence higher property taxes) in some manner or another on this whole hockey dorm thing. They've already given the land away for a mere fraction of its true value and now have nothing but a big ugly hole that fell off the rails to show for their elected officials' largess. I don't think the $50K non-refundable deposit is going to cover the city hall wages associated with finally seeing this venture through to completion either. Also, I'll bet the contractors who've paid out wages and incurred costs thus far are really happy with this 'development'. Gads, I hope they don't get burned!

[fluffy]

So, who approved all the rink surfaces at the SOEC without considering that the OHS should pony up for a dorm for all the aspiring young NHLer's it brings into town. What's wrong with all the empty motel rooms at this time of year... not good enough?

Just a point of interest here, the OHS is a private enterprise, the City is not responsible for supplying their infrastructure but has been very helpful in the past by permitting the use of Queen's Park Elementary School as a dorm during the summer months when the bulk of OHS activity occurs because their students are out of school themselves.