Hockey Dorm hits financial hurdle

[Imreal]

We desperately need something like this in Summerland. Hate being outdone by Penticton. We are getting a large new baseball facility, but unfortunately it is well planned and funded.

[bipdl]

We desperately need something like this in Summerland. Hate being outdone by Penticton. We are getting a large new baseball facility, but unfortunately it is well planned and funded.

... or so we're being told.

We can use the massive revenues this stroke of genius will doubtless provide to pave Garnet Valley Road AND Giant's Head Road!!!

So, who's gonna pay for the water to keep all those fields of dreams green... or the electricity for flood lighting... or the weekly mowing... or the field repairs after a couple of dirtbikers have had some fun? And then, we'll need a baseball dorm .

Yup, Summerland... baseball capital of BC! I guess the existing Dale Meadows facility isn't big enough and there's no more room there for expansion to take advantage of the already in-place infrastructure. Gotta move out into those dry hills where the failed golf course/suburban development woulda been.

This one reminds me of the promoter who wanted to install a circus calliope (musical merry-go-round) in city park a few years ago to attract tourist dollars.

Pffft... fools and their money!

[Imreal]

Yes, what's with Garnet Valley road? Nobody on council lives out there or what? Glad I have a truck so I can drive that road. Is anything ever going to be done with it?

Sorry to be off topic.

[bipdl]

"The city’s lawyer Richard Thompson confirmed Tuesday that the city filed a “notice of interest” under the Builders’ Lien Act on the Eckhardt properties..."

There goes the 50 thousand bucks!!!

Get mad Penticton! You just got driven through with a long twisty robertson head fastener by some really stupid politicians.

I hope the community rallies behind Grizzly Excavating so as to turn this ugly sow's ear into a silk purse for a local businessman and his employees, all of whom are part of us honest hardworking folk.

[fluffy]

Isn't it par for the course for contractors to take deposits of their own when entering int these arrangements? And where is Mr. Regan hiding during this poop storm?

(Edited to edit the editing that spell-check screwed up on)

[Assumed]

The cost of legal fees are never highlighted in press releases. The real costs may never be known. I do know that when the Mayor announces that Penticton is protected, I wonder???? 50000 does not go very far.

[Imreal]

I have been on jobsites where Grizzly excavating has been working. Good bunch of guys. Good at what they do too. Hate to say that's life, but it is a risk when you are a contractor. Feel sorry for owner and crew though. Hard to come back from a loss like that.

[twobits]

Isn't it par for the course for contractors to take deposits of their own when entering int these arrangements?

The short answer.....yes. I feel bad for the guy (Grizzly) but have to ask why a relatively small contractor such as he is, would give himself over 300k of rope to hang himself with? In todays Castanet news report, he claims to have checked out the project managment company (Task) and they were stellar. His attempts at checking out Reagan were described as "didn't have any luck". He goes on to say, “Everyone just had a good feeling about this that it was on the up and up.” Excuse me, but when does one commit that kind of money on a "good feeling". This contractor also knew that the land deal had not closed. As I said in an earlier post, a $20 land titles query would have told him any liens on the property would not hold water. It would have taken all of one hour for him to find this out. So sure, let's all tell Grizzly we feel bad for them but let's also remind him he was awfully careless in his own due diligence.

I am also starting to wonder about the Task Managment's culpability here. What were they telling Grizzly as well as all the other out of town contractors? If anyone, they would have been the most privy to the inside dealings, the extentions, the fact that no money had been forwarded to their accounts. Yet they allowed all of these contractors to continue working for weeks racking up manhours and expenses! 1.6 million with missed deadlines, extentions, and not a dime in the bank yet!! Would it not have been prudent at the first missed deadline to be honest with the guys and stop work until the funds were in the bank? Why would Task Managment not have known the City protected itself against liens because title had not yet been transferred? They should have and if not, they could have done the same $20 land titles query.

It's easy to blame the City though isn't it? Even John Vasilaki who opposed the sale said,
“The City Council always gets abused by the public for too much red tape when it comes to projects, so the city decided to give them an earthworks permit,” said Vassilaki. “Winter was also coming and the goal was to have the dormitory built by September of 2012.”
So the city gives them a earthworks permit only in order to beat the weather, and in order to facilitate that before the land deal closes, they register with land titles to protect the taxpayer from liens. If they had said no work to be done before closing, the very same public would be damning them for being uncooperative and jeoprodizing a great project. Damned if they do, damned if they don't. It should also be noted that despite having an earthworks permit only, the question arises as to why Task Managment allowed the project to go beyond earthworks only and proceed to building footings and foundations which are clearly not a part of the earthworks permit? More contractor expense without even a permit issued! But that's the city's fault right?

ETA-For those of you that still think the city should have done more to protect the contractors even though they are not legally required to and are not a party to the contracts between the Managment Group/Developers and the individual contractors.....ask yourself this. If the city had gone onto the site and said to the contractors "look guys, another deadline has passed, we have concerns about the financing etc and don't want to see you guys get left holding the bag so you best do some research before you commit any more time and money" and THAT resulted in a job shutdown, what do you think would have happened? I'll tell ya what would happen.......the city would find themselves on the receiving end of a lawsuit and blamed for the collapse of the project that their notice on title with Land Titles protecting them from liens might no longer protect them from.

[fluffy]

It should also be noted that despite having an earthworks permit only, the question arises as to why Task Managment allowed the project to go beyond earthworks only and proceed to building footings and foundations which are clearly not a part of the earthworks permit?

While this is far from "standard practice" it's also far from uncommon. As long as the permits are in place before any concrete is placed there is generally no fuss made. I agree that the city is taking a lot of flak that isn't really deserved. The contractors are being hailed as "innocent victims" due to negligence on the part of city council and staff when the fact remains that the city bears no liability in a contract between the contractor and the "developer". I think everyone was taken in by a smooth talker who got caught playing his finances too close to the edge, and all were equally blinded by the thought of a substantial sized project coming along in economic hard times.

[ToddT]

And TwoBits nailed it. Always get deposits on your work people! If it's a deal breaker then maybe it's not worth your time.

[nepal]

So who's paying for the per day rate on that equipment and fencing now sitting at the site. Will that keep adding up and get billed to the land owner? Or is it staying there free, rather than storing it somewhere else, in hopes it will get going there again...? Just wondering...

[fluffy]

Or is it staying there free, rather than storing it somewhere else, in hopes it will get going there again...?

That would be the likely scenario. You can bet it would be gone if it could be making money somewhere else, but it does cost to move that kind of equipment so one parking spot is as good as the next if they're just sitting still.

[twobits]

While this is far from "standard practice" it's also far from uncommon. As long as the permits are in place before any concrete is placed there is generally no fuss made.

This is true as form work can be done as long as there is no concrete poured. I have heard two conflicting stories now. One that some concrete has been poured in which case would have been without the proper permit in place. It was said that it was at this time that a stop work order was issued then recinded. I believe this now to be incorrect as it appears that no concrete had been poured (??), only forming work. If that is the case then they were still working withing the earthworks permit and I would have to retract my comment about the managment group proceeding without the proper permit. That however does still not negate the validity of the question, "why continue so far with the earthworks when deadlines passed and no funding was in place?" One certainly shouldn't invest 1.6 million based on a "good feeling" and then be shocked when something goes sideways.

The city seems to have done everything properly to protect taxpayers but that is not to say new info might come out. Based on my experience and everything made public to date it looks good. There are only two things I can see that might possibly throw a wrench in the equation. The first comes about concrete actually being poured (if it was), the stop work order, and subsequent recinding. One might argue an implied contract but that is thin and at this point it looks like no concrete was poured as well as the courts view on unwritten contracts. One other thing that nags at me a bit is not knowing when work commenced in relation to when notice on title was issued by the city. If there is even a few days of overlap, those days could potentially be lienable. At that stage of earthworks, the impact would be minimal though.

ETA-Spent some time yesterday talking to a few people and rumours suggest there are a few "legitimate" entities that are considering stepping up to the plate. Take it for what it's worth though as it's just talk even if it is from people I consider credible. No one knows if it is a continuation of this project, or something completely different.

[hoot]

Boy, I get back in to town have a quick look at the forum and see the usual drivel being written by the usual City hall apologists.

This city council tried to cut corners in the processing of this project and in turn have left the local trades people out to dry!!.
How so ?
In one move they start issuing permits to individuals that don't own the land on Eckhardt Avenue.

When the very dubious financing of said project falls through and the contractors on site are not paid , City lawyer Richard Thompson files a notice of interest under the builders lien act , which stipulates the land is not bound by liens unless the improvements are undertaken at "the express request of the owner " . Say what!

If the City knew this to be the case did they not, as the landowners, give implied consent by issuing permits to have the work done in the first place?

Is the city not culpable by issuing permits on land, where, if any work was to precede, left no protection for the trades’ people hired to do the work? At least according to the city lawyer.

According to The project manager: "We've worked with the city hand in hand to get this so the project can proceed with the requirements of the building code and local planning authorities. "

He went on to say "we haven't circumvented any processes just shortened them, and that was done with the co-operation of the mayor and council. "

If that is the case, why weren't the contractors advised by City hall that any work performed was, without their express permission? Was the City willfully blind in not bringing this to the contractors attention?.

Now I read City hall is to get TWO new appraisals on the property in preparation for its eventual sale.
“City Manager Annette Antoniak said the city is getting internal and external appraisals done on the land and will get direction from the council on marketing the property.”

Which begs the question, how much are these new appraisals going to cost the tax payer?
And is this an admittance by council that the first ridiculous appraisal of the land was so far out to be laughable, ( as I pointed out in an earlier post ).
This could end up costing the citizens of Penticton mucho bucks.

[twobits]

Just more of the same innuendo and rhetoric. Yawn.