Police Scanner codes?

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JayByrd
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Re: Police Scanner codes?

Post by JayByrd »

Was making radio traffic scanner-proof even the point of this upgrade, or just a by-product of it? Either way, I don't think anyone believes the new setup to be hack-proof...just harder for the average person to access.

I did enjoy listening over the last few years though. It gave me a little insight into operational stuff, but more importantly, it gave me an understanding (and some empathy) for what our local members deal with on a daily basis. Not even the dangerous, headline-grabbing calls, but the hours spent babysitting the most self-destructive (and most vulnerable) members of society. It was interesting to hear how many times a member has almost no information to go on when responding to a call (gee, I wonder why screw-ups happen from time to time) but the biggest thing I learned was how drugs and alcohol are involved in an overwhelming majority of calls. Like almost all of them.
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SurplusElect
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Re: Police Scanner codes?

Post by SurplusElect »

KL3-Something wrote:There would be no point. With that attitude it is apparent that your mind is already made up.


Your MO on this forum is "Because I say so".

- hence my attitude. I didnt actually think you'd give reasons, because you don't. You just say so.
WhatThe

Re: Police Scanner codes?

Post by WhatThe »

Think about it, if we can't listen in then mantler situations would never be known about and swept under the rug.
Who is watching the watchers?

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2010/03 ... noRedirect

This has secret police written all over it. One could call me paranoid but really if one has been observing the patterns going on....
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Fancy
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Re: Police Scanner codes?

Post by Fancy »

WhatThe wrote:Think about it, if we can't listen in then mantler situations would never be known about and swept under the rug.
Please think about it - listening to the mantler situation on a scanner still would have resulted in not having the information.
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JayByrd
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Re: Police Scanner codes?

Post by JayByrd »

WhatThe wrote:Think about it, if we can't listen in then mantler situations would never be known about and swept under the rug.
Who is watching the watchers?




I don't know if you've ever spent time listening to the scanner, but I think you're overestimating how much information is transmitted that way. I rarely have ever heard the result of a call, aside from "one male in custody" type stuff. I've never heard any details on the scanner about how an arrest went down, and I doubt the Mantler-Tavares incident was any different.

If I was relying on the police scanner as my link to some sort of transparency and accountability, I would have been terribly disappointed.
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Captain Awesome
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Re: Police Scanner codes?

Post by Captain Awesome »

Fancy wrote:Please think about it - listening to the mantler situation on a scanner still would have resulted in not having the information.


I think he means if Castanet reporters didn't have the ability to listen to police scanner, he wouldn't be able to be on site at the time events took place and film the clip that became everyone's obsession for like 2 weeks.
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WhatThe

Re: Police Scanner codes?

Post by WhatThe »

I guess you guys didn't think about, how would Kelly Hayes have known to be there to film it?
Yes CA.
Did you read that article and the problems of transparency other jurisdiction are starting to see?
process99
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Re: Police Scanner codes?

Post by process99 »

JayByrd wrote:Was making radio traffic scanner-proof even the point of this upgrade, or just a by-product of it? Either way, I don't think anyone believes the new setup to be hack-proof...just harder for the average person to access.


Yes this was a result of an upgrade not an attempt to thwart listeners.
To some old schoolers, digital is a form of encryption. That's not exactly true until you get down to the algo they use to compress the signal after it has been digitized. Two layers in. For the most part a decent digital scanner with good software and you can decode just about anything you want including all the emergency services.
No its not harder to listen it just requires the new digital HW decoder board.
This allows Eservices to use more channels with their existing repeater network once it all has digital HW installed.
Sorta like you can fit 1000 digital calls on one pair twisted cable if its digital, if its not then you get one call.
It allows much better use of the already very busy radio spectrum as it is currently allocated.

P99
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Nebula
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Re: Police Scanner codes?

Post by Nebula »

So, P99, in English this time (a little techie for me) ... what a person need to listen to local RCMP transmissions?
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Re: Police Scanner codes?

Post by LoneWolf_53 »

Modern digital hardware.
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process99
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Re: Police Scanner codes?

Post by process99 »

Nebula wrote:So, P99, in English this time (a little techie for me) ... what a person need to listen to local RCMP transmissions?


Google P25 Radio systems or similar.
Read and understand what they have changed over to, then decide what type of equipment "you" would choose to decrypt the signal and listen or record or both.
It would be almost impossible for me to school you on P25 in a txt forum. It is complicated in form but easy in use, hence the ability to add it to existing vhf systems like police.
Its an upgrade so you must upgrade to be able to process the incoming digital(as in no longer analog) signal once you can do that then hopefully your scanner or computer software has the ability to map out talkgroups (found in P25 structure) . This will allow anything (all as of now) RCMP to listen to the main trunk and as the cars key up they get auto added with their call id to your scanner channel maps.(entering p25 manually is like doing your own dental work).
So without being obtuse the manual for my personal digital trunking scanner is over 1600 pages so its kinda hard to dumb it down too much more without removing all detail you need to understand.
If the RCMP does decide to implement a password to further lock down the system to prevent automapping and decoding then one only need the password once leaked and the radio will follow the new passwords automatictly.
Don't think for a second members have to enter any form of password on the radio weekly or monthly to use it. This is done via software updates from the repeater via the base so all the radios mapped on that trunk will pick up the new passwords, IF AND WHEN THEY EVEN USE ONE.
Just one time leaked and its open forever as everyone will track the changes.
fully encrypted digital comm sounds like static hiss with zero discernible audio. If you take a listen to the RCMP digital as it is now you find its only time sliced digital chunks. (Ive looked on a scope) You can also recognize the members voice male or female. That's what digital sounds like on an old analog scanner in both forms. The digital scanner just has the correct HW and software to recognize this and reassemble the chunks into complete audio.
The information bursts, or the buzz zap zap buzz requires a computer and some other software to decode those packets. They contain information like gps time stamps and small txt msgs to individual car terminals.

So that's P25 in a nutshell and it can be listened to and played with to ones hearts content for now not too much money.
LAPD and most of the entire USA police use this system as well because of the abilities granted to the users being fully digital.
Its effective and supports huge police departments with many many cars and the old system just breaks down when you have more than 100 units trying to use say 10 channels.
With a P25 system you can have thousands of units each with its own call sign and the ability to signal all or any number at the same instant. All headend computer controlled for speed and tracking.
oh, and the double key is a thing of the past since each transmission is a packet they get priority stacked so none get lost, or so they claim(the designers).

P99
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JayByrd
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Re: Police Scanner codes?

Post by JayByrd »

Well that does sound a little more complicated than the two mouse clicks it took me to listen in before.
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KL3-Something
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Re: Police Scanner codes?

Post by KL3-Something »

KL3-Something wrote:There would be no point. With that attitude it is apparent that your mind is already made up.


SurplusElect wrote:Your MO on this forum is "Because I say so".

- hence my attitude. I didnt actually think you'd give reasons, because you don't. You just say so.

Ya your right. I just say so. The Kelowna Area went digital this week. As a result the safety of myself and the other members in the area improved tremendously. The fact that the bad guys can't listen in and easily jam our radios anymore increases the chance of me going home safely at the end of my shift. The fact that you don't get to listen in purely out of your own curiosity is merely a side-effect.

I don't have to justify it to you.
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Just to be clear: The opinions expressed above are mine and do not represent those of any other person, class of persons or organization.
SurplusElect
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Re: Police Scanner codes?

Post by SurplusElect »

P99 posted the accurate information easily and the people that law enforcement would have to really fear - the technologically committed bad guys - would have the resources to monitor things and do, and you know that.

As well, scanners have been around for years.

Just like the infamous 50 page I need a tank thread (lol), you can justify whatever you want.

My concerns are mainly my saftey (and curiosity/community participation) which also directly relates to the media being able to be there at or around the same time that you are KL.

Clicking your heels at a veil of cover doesn't breed trust in the public service when posted in a public community forum.

Last week(s) my neighborhood was a police zone and it took 12 hours for your organization to tell Castanet, so they could publish a story and tell me why. TuneIn told me I didn't have to lock my doors in that moment and I noted the increase to my personal saftey, and meanwhile Castanet posts some of the most slanted news pieces published this side of Alberta. The trust isn't there and I like my information, that is why I poked in here. Didn't expect heel clicking.

I wonder, since Radio Shack used to sell these back in the late 70's, how many police deaths in Canada can be attributed to scanner interception? Scary data justification!
and40
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Re: Police Scanner codes?

Post by and40 »

The new system is digital AND encrypted. Maybe it is not an unbreakable encryption, but I don't imagine even the above average hacker is going to be able to de-crypt it. Save your energy and move away from your scanner. Take up a new hobby.

I think it is a good move for the RCMP. There is a lot of information transmitted over police radios that I don't think scannerland needs to be hearing.

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