Kelowna minimum living wage now $18.42

[OKkayak]

In regards to tipping, with servers now making $20 plus in some cases, I hope they ain't expecting a tip now. You've got your living wage now, and I'm keeping mine now - you're cut off - thanks

The Missus and I went out for dinner this one time, pre-pandemic. The debit machine demanded, yes demanded a 20% tip. The bill itself was quite large, and the tip would have equated to over $30. She told the waitress to please disable the tip option on the machine, and the waitress said that tip is "necessary to provide her with a living wage". The Missus told her, "you know what? The company I work for is hiring right now, $35 an hour, 3 weeks holidays to start, full benefits, pension and full training. There's your living wage. Because if you think, that I'm going to subsidize your wage with a full hours wage of mine because you don't want to build your own wage, you're high. Ain't gonna happen!"

[GordonH]

Looking at Interior Health job posting for KGH, I see jobs with minimum amount of training skills for $20+/- per hour.
i.e Cleaner
Here is a link just scroll through the 17 pages:
https://jobs.interiorhealth.ca/search-j ... 0579&alt=4

btw none of these jobs start out full time, usually on call and work up to full time

[JayByrd]

In regards to tipping, with servers now making $20 plus in some cases, I hope they ain't expecting a tip now. You've got your living wage now, and I'm keeping mine now - you're cut off - thanks

*snip*

Because if you think, that I'm going to subsidize your wage with a full hours wage of mine because you don't want to build your own wage, you're high. Ain't gonna happen!"

I love this. Where I shake my head is people who don't/won't tip, but still expect a high level of service. The price on the menu is the price of the food, you order it and that's what you receive. Some folks still feel entitled to friendly staff who will see to your needs, above and beyond delivering the goods they paid for. And they think that part should be free.

[stuphoto]

The Missus told her, "you know what? The company I work for is hiring right now, $35 an hour, 3 weeks holidays to start, full benefits, pension and full training. There's your living wage.

So where do I apply

[one wheel]

I thought tipping originally started as gratitude for exceptional service & had nothing to do with providing a living wage ?

How is it that the food & beverage industry came to rely on tips while other service workers don't ?

Who tips their home builder 18%, if you buy a $75 shirt, do you just say keep the change from the $100, not likely ?

McDonald's didn't suddenly decide to offer $17.50 per hour full-time jobs, this happened when they couldn't get workers.

[spooker]

I thought tipping originally started as gratitude for exceptional service & had nothing to do with providing a living wage ?

How is it that the food & beverage industry came to rely on tips while other service workers don't ?

...snip...

Tipping has quite the sordid origin story ...

Tipping actually originated in the aristocratic homes of feudal Europe…. When tips came to the United States in the late 1850s, 1860s, there was a massive anti-tipping movement. It was actually considered to be undemocratic, un-American…. Well that movement, which came right around the time of the emancipation of the slaves, was squashed by the restaurant industry, which argued that they should have the right to hire newly freed slaves and not pay them anything as valueless people and essentially let them live on customer tips. And so many of the first tipped workers in the United States were former slaves…. And this idea was codified into the first minimum wage law that passed in 1938 as part of the New Deal…. We went from a zero-dollar minimum wage in 1938 to a whopping $2.13 an hour, which is the current federal minimum wage for tipped workers in the U.S.

Which also answers your second question ...

https://www.marketplace.org/2016/04/22/ ... g-america/

[Catri]

There's only one solution to making people's lives easier when they're making minimum wage. It's to stop earning minimum wage. And not by giving them more money because it doesn't work as I explained above, it's by them jumping through levels to higher earnings outpacing the inflation. See, if they stay at the bottom and you give money you create inflation that erases the purchasing power of those extras. But if they increase their earning potential naturally, they will outpace the inflation and increase their purchasing power in the process thus becoming better off.

Unfortunately, it's up to them to decide to do that, govt has little influence on them in that department.

We fundamentally disagree on this, no one chooses to be poor. I think it's unacceptable that in a country as rich as Canada, hardworking people are faced with food and housing insecurity. We need to do something about it other than throwing our hands up in the air and telling them to better themselves.

[seewood]

We fundamentally disagree on this, no one chooses to be poor. I think it's unacceptable that in a country as rich as Canada, hardworking people are faced with food and housing insecurity. We need to do something about it other than throwing our hands up in the air and telling them to better themselves.

And the solution then is ??? Have private companies pay more for less skilled positions ? No issues with government workers as the unions just have the tax payer pay more taxes.
Third hand information told me the clerks behind the desk at the community center(Penticton) earn more per hour that the trained, skilled lifeguard/instructors, go figure.
Keep in mind many companies are working in the global economy where wages are a big influencer as to if the said company stays in business or not.

PS: Penticton's minimum living wage was determined to $18.55/ hour..

[MAPearce]

In regards to tipping, with servers now making $20 plus in some cases, I hope they ain't expecting a tip now. You've got your living wage now, and I'm keeping mine now - you're cut off - thanks

*snip*

Because if you think, that I'm going to subsidize your wage with a full hours wage of mine because you don't want to build your own wage, you're high. Ain't gonna happen!"

I love this. Where I shake my head is people who don't/won't tip, but still expect a high level of service. The price on the menu is the price of the food, you order it and that's what you receive. Some folks still feel entitled to friendly staff who will see to your needs, above and beyond delivering the goods they paid for. And they think that part should be free.

yeah .. Those people are the first to complain that the meal they ordered isn't what they wanted even though is was EXACTLY what they ordered never mind demanding how it's served ..

"Here's your order , eat it , like it and shut up " ..

[alanjh595]

***Edited for brevity***

"Here's your order , eat it , like it and shut up " ..

I am guessing but, you never could get a position in the food service industry.

That is a very common trait in common with those that likewise, have the perfect face for radio.

[fluffy]

Tipping has seen some evolution over the last fifty years or so. It has gone from being a reward for service "above and beyond" to a wage replacement, an excuse to pay a lower hourly rate, so much so that people don't bat an eye at places that automatically add a gratuity to the bill. I'm more than willing to kick out extra bucks for good service, but it's my decision to make.

Something else to be considered in this discussion is that those hit hardest by the pandemic, those most likely to have lost some or all of their employment hours, are low wage earners. Incidentally, the bulk of these workers are also classed as "essential" to the proper functioning of the economy.

More important than how much the minimum wage has risen in recent years, is the simple fact that wages in general have not kept pace with the cost of living for middle and lower class earners. You can talk all you like about how these people "are only worth minimum wage", but it looks to me like the shortages in the low wage/service sectors are coming from workers in these jobs doing just what is being suggested by many here, they got better jobs. This may well be the start of a "market correction", where employers are going to have to pick up their game if they want to hang on to decent workers and not have to deal with a transient staff.

[stuphoto]

What I don't think some service industry employers understand is a good employee draws in addional customers and is more valuable because of that alone.

It isn't just the restaurant industry, it's taxi companies and yes even bus drivers

[fluffy]

What I don't think some service industry employers understand is a good employee draws in addional customers and is more valuable because of that alone.

It isn't just the restaurant industry, it's taxi companies and yes even bus drivers

Yes, there's a reason it's called the "hospitality" industry. Employees without genuine commitment to their jobs have trouble portraying genuine hospitality, and that commitment generally flows from job sastisfaction. I don't think it's just me that thinks complaints of poor customer service in restaurant and retail settings have become more common. While it's an easy out to sluff this off of customers with unrealistic expectations, I can say from personal experience that this is not always the case. I have experienced sloppy work a lot more in the last year than I have in the previous ten, mostly in take-out settings. I don't whine if there's not a lot of money involved, I just don't go back.

[MAPearce]

***Edited for brevity***

"Here's your order , eat it , like it and shut up " ..

I am guessing but, you never could get a position in the food service industry.

That is a very common trait in common with those that likewise, have the perfect face for radio.

Wrong again .. Lots of experience in both front and back of house but it didn't pay enough back then .

I moved into a trade or two and earn more .

[Catri]

And the solution then is ??? Have private companies pay more for less skilled positions ? No issues with government workers as the unions just have the tax payer pay more taxes.
Third hand information told me the clerks behind the desk at the community center(Penticton) earn more per hour that the trained, skilled lifeguard/instructors, go figure.
Keep in mind many companies are working in the global economy where wages are a big influencer as to if the said company stays in business or not.

PS: Penticton's minimum living wage was determined to $18.55/ hour..

I think the whole more skilled/less skilled thing is a red herring. How do you decide who is more skilled? Virtually anyone can sit in classrooms for 4 years and get an undergraduate degree, does that automatically make them more skilled than an experienced seamstress who makes less than a living wage doing piecework because she's arbitrarily labelled "less skilled"? Would we value her work more if we decided that in order to earn a living by sewing that she'd have to complete a training course or go through a formal apprenticeship to become qualified as "skilled"?

I use this example because I saw a post on social media the other day from a Canadian clothing company, advertising how their clothes were "ethical" because they make them in Canada. I asked them whether the people who sew their clothes were paid a living wage and the response was (and I give them credit for their honesty) that the companies they contract the sewing to pay minimum wage. How is it more ethical to pay Canadians poverty wages than it is to pay Bangladeshi or Chinese workers poverty wages? Then to turn around and charge $70 for a t-shirt (which, even made in Canada, probably cost them less than $7) because people will pay that for something that makes them feel good about it. They think they're supporting Canadian industry, when really they're just perpetuating the attitude that some Canadians deserve to feast and some Canadians deserve to go hungry. That is unacceptable. So yes, I think there needs to be a mechanism, whether that's through a living wage as minimum wage or a guaranteed income supplement, where poverty amongst working people isn't built in to our economy. I think we need to try.

As for the argument that paying everyone a living wage is untenable and would ruin the economy, well, I can't help but file that with those who, not too many years ago, predicted that a minimum wage of $15/hr would ruin the economy and cause widespread business failures and unemployment.