Looking for injection site

[spooker]

And addicts aren't 3 year olds. They are fully capable of seeing the damage they are doing to themselves, the harm they reap on people around them, and fully capable of seeing the costs/burden they place on society, which is where in treatment they could be shown such things, and in turn for getting clean they have the option of housing, welfare, and eventual job placement so that they can feel human again. Those who fail at this, afer exhausting every reasonable respurce and aspect, should face a punishment, so that someone else who may value their own humanity more has a chance to recover.

My own morality is not the issue, i've seen many of these people lingering by my workplace, defecating where they please without a concern for who has to clean it up, instead of on a piece of cardboard and into the garbage can, by a door i have to use many times a day, like a wild animal. Some have just plain given up on anything except their addiction and feeding it, and my compassion only extends so far as to giving them a chance to recover on our tax dollars, but should that chance be neglected and blown, they can go back to being a wild animal or caged like one. As you said, they are thinking, sometimes rational, logical adults. There is very little in the way of rehab being offered as far as I know, and until there is widespread treatment available, i don't see the logic in providing safe injection sites, further detracting from the funds that could be used to create effective treatment plans/facilities. Any of them caught discarding needles in public places instead of into trash cans should be locked up until sober, as they clearly don't respect the level of harm they can potentially reap when people are accidentally jabbed by discarded needles.

How do you get addicts into a rehab program? By connecting to that rational human being that still hopefully exists in there ... How do you connect? By randomly wandering the streets and striking up a conversation when you luckily find them? Or by getting them into a safe injection site that provides professional staff trained to make that connection?

People give up when the people they surround themselves with give up ... safe injection sites are staffed by people who believe that there is still a chance ... I don't give up ... that's not the example I want to set for anyone ... especially not my daughter ...

And yes, after an experience in my immediate family with an almost 10-year addiction habit there is a similarity between an addict and a 3-year-old ... but the 3-year-old will grow up in spite of ourselves while the addict takes more work and dedication to grow up again ...

[Donald G]

Unread postby spooker » Today, 12:49 pm

Here's a post about how the mindset you support is starting to change:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wh ... hould-stop

I would fully expect a psychiatrist or psychologist or anyone else in the medical profession to want more money poured into treating patients, including addicts.

I am amazed that the writer does not even attempt to identify the difference between treating the five different genetic conditions and lifestyles that lead to the wide assortment of addicts and drug users we see on the streets today.

I would also fully expect him, as he has done, to completely ignore the ramifications of doing only what he has suggested.

[the truth]

And addicts aren't 3 year olds. They are fully capable of seeing the damage they are doing to themselves, the harm they reap on people around them, and fully capable of seeing the costs/burden they place on society, which is where in treatment they could be shown such things, and in turn for getting clean they have the option of housing, welfare, and eventual job placement so that they can feel human again. Those who fail at this, afer exhausting every reasonable respurce and aspect, should face a punishment, so that someone else who may value their own humanity more has a chance to recover.

My own morality is not the issue, i've seen many of these people lingering by my workplace, defecating where they please without a concern for who has to clean it up, instead of on a piece of cardboard and into the garbage can, by a door i have to use many times a day, like a wild animal. Some have just plain given up on anything except their addiction and feeding it, and my compassion only extends so far as to giving them a chance to recover on our tax dollars, but should that chance be neglected and blown, they can go back to being a wild animal or caged like one. As you said, they are thinking, sometimes rational, logical adults. There is very little in the way of rehab being offered as far as I know, and until there is widespread treatment available, i don't see the logic in providing safe injection sites, further detracting from the funds that could be used to create effective treatment plans/facilities. Any of them caught discarding needles in public places instead of into trash cans should be locked up until sober, as they clearly don't respect the level of harm they can potentially reap when people are accidentally jabbed by discarded needles.

well said

[36Drew]

safe injection sites do absolutely nothing for society.

http://supervisedinjection.vch.ca/media-centre/an-overview-of-insite---10-years-later

Facts, not feelz. If you have counter-facts, please share them. Hyperbole doesn't solve problems.

[spooker]

I would fully expect a psychiatrist or psychologist or anyone else in the medical profession to want more money poured into treating patients, including addicts.

I am amazed that the writer does not even attempt to identify the difference between treating the five different genetic conditions and lifestyles that lead to the wide assortment of addicts and drug users we see on the streets today.

I would also fully expect him, as he has done, to completely ignore the ramifications of doing only what he has suggested.

So, because we "feel" that people in the industry of understanding human psychology would only serve their own self-interest they must be part of a conspiracy to take our tax dollars ... yeah, pretty much sums up everything these days with the advent of the Internet and Google ... since we can all educate ourselves about any subject on the earth just by reading articles on the web we shouldn't trust people who spent the time in University to get there first ...

There are so many examples of "commonsense ideas" that we're now starting to understand are just myths in our perception of what we want our world to be that I'd think more people would be open to ideas that turn things on their heads ... How long ago was smoking supposed to be healthy? Since we keep building prisons but we keep getting more criminals to populate those new prisons doesn't it make you start to think we need a new outlook?

I don't debate these ideas because I'm an expert ... everyone who knows me knows that I know enough about a lot of things to be dangerous to most conversations because I won't say what's expected ... and I'll go out there and try to understand something before I put it out on a public forum like this ...

When someone said "isn't it illegal?" I had to do some research before I stuck my foot into that one ... did anyone else take a look at what's been written on the subject?

Donald G, thank you for following that link and reading the article ... it was the first of many that resulted from my search and I felt it gave a broad overview ... but too many times I cite where my statements come from and people do seem to ignore it ...

[Donald G]

Unread postby spooker » Today, 3:21 pm

I don't debate these ideas because I'm an expert ... everyone who knows me knows that I know enough about a lot of things to be dangerous to most conversations because I won't say what's expected ...

I for one appreciate your efforts.

[JennParker]

So, because we "feel" that people in the industry of understanding human psychology would only serve their own self-interest they must be part of a conspiracy to take our tax dollars ... yeah, pretty much sums up everything these days with the advent of the Internet and Google ... since we can all educate ourselves about any subject on the earth just by reading articles on the web we shouldn't trust people who spent the time in University to get there first ...

This is a very interesting take on matters. When it comes to the medical industry, a person should 100% always seek a second or 3rd opinion. I trust my family doctor to medicate instead of getting down to the how's and why's of a medical issue. All of us quickly pop a pill to band-aid the real problem.

The medical industry is like an onion, every layer is different. The doctors who prescribe the medication are not the ones making it. They are depending on pharmaceutical companies to be transparent. Judging by the amount of lawsuits, we know transparency is not in the code of ethics for pharmaceuticals.

We can't fix people with pills... But those 4-8-12 year university educations are telling them to fix us with pills. So in my opinion, no we should not trust them.

[Donald G]

Unread postby JennParker » 1 minute ago

We can't fix people with pills... But those 4-8-12 year university educations are telling them to fix us with pills. So in my opinion, no we should not trust them.

IMO pills may indeed be one way to "fix the problem" but best to keep in mind that the pills may only be eliminating a symptom of the problem.

Also that there is often more than one way to fix the symptom or the problem, pills being one of those many ways.

[Queen K]

I miss Donald G.

And here we go BC Ministry of Health saying that OD injection sites may be illegal, but Ottawa has to catch up with the times.

From what I hear, IH as put pop-up sites on hold for now.


http://www.castanet.net/edition/news-st ... htm#186898

British Columbia's health minister says the province's overdose prevention sites and at least one "sharing room" where people use drugs may not be legal under federal laws but they're intended to save lives.

Terry Lake says an unprecedented opioid epidemic means there's no time to wait until the federal government's recently-introduced legislation to make it easier to open supervised injection sites becomes law.

Lake says he hopes the current measures will be temporary as the province pushes Ottawa to approve more supervised injection facilities such as Insite, where addicts inject their own drugs under medical supervision.

He made the comments at a news conference where he announced the province will open 38 detox and temporary housing beds in the Downtown Eastside for women trying to get into addiction treatment.

The beds will be located in a building that houses a non-profit organization, which provides housing and support for women affected by violence and abuse.

Janice Abbott, chief executive officer of the Atira Women's Resource Society, says the group has opened a so-called sharing room in one of its buildings so people aren't using drugs alone.

[Queen K]

2 Million to support addicts. Not to support students going to univesity mind you.

http://www.castanet.net/edition/news-st ... htm#187051

[spooker]

2 Million to support addicts. Not to support students going to univesity mind you.

http://www.castanet.net/edition/news-st ... htm#187051

$2MM to stop people from dying ... the whole post-secondary cost issue is another thread in Social Concerns ...

[Queen K]

I know, I'm just angry that so many resources are being spent on one end of it and so little at the dealers.

Sure a big drug bust was made in Edmonton today but it's still flowing from somewhere. End the drug flow. Somehow.

[spooker]

I know, I'm just angry that so many resources are being spent on one end of it and so little at the dealers.

Sure a big drug bust was made in Edmonton today but it's still flowing from somewhere. End the drug flow. Somehow.

I would like it to be as simple as turning off the flow ... human nature has shown that even by drying up the chemicals that people use to escape they get creative and damage themselves other ways ... such as the recent emergency in the Russian town where 49 people died of poisoning by drinking bath oil they hoped would give them the same buzz as alcohol ... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/12/19/33-people-dead-from-alcohol-poisoning-after-drinking-bath-lotion-in-siberian-city/

We have so many issues in society these days we don't know where to start ...

[tdewar]

I know, I'm just angry that so many resources are being spent on one end of it and so little at the dealers.

Sure a big drug bust was made in Edmonton today but it's still flowing from somewhere. End the drug flow. Somehow.

Until we find a way to cure the social ills that lead to addiction you can not stop the flow. It is impossible just askthe us and it's 500 billion dollar a year war on drugs industry. It is time to stop beating a dead horse. Substance abuse is an illness. Many illnesses are not curable but the symptoms can be suppressed by medication. So give the addict the medication they need. Want to end organized crime making money off of drugs make them all legal. No more money from drugs. An addict goes to a drug store each day to get his medication. It is actually way cheaper to give an addict his heroin each day then it is to treat any other lifelong disease. The only reason street drugs are expensive is because they are illegal and have to be smuggled in and sold risking penalty of long jail terms. If legal that kilo of heroine that used to be worth say 50k is now worth 200 bucks. Addicts dont need to come up with 100 bucks a day just to feel well so crime rates would fall drastically. I see no difference between doing it that way and a diabetic taking insulin every day. You will stay have some addicts who really abuse the stuff like you do alcohol but the majority of addicts don't use to escape reality they use to feel better. Those who gravitate to these drugs do so whether they are legal or not so the legalization of them would cause no more addicts than they do at present. the government then can take the tax money from selling a recreational drug like marijuana to pay for those with serious problems medication and treatment options instead of it coming from the taxpayer who does not use or need these types of drugs. In short if you take away the expense and stigma attached to these drugs there will be less addicts on the street because they are not spending the rent money or grocery money on what they need to feel well each day. There will be less crime because addicts wont feel the need to steal to provide the medication that helps them feel better. Seems like a no brainer to me.