The Unofficial Driving Survey.

[60-YEARS-in-Ktown]

First a bit if background, I had mentioned before that I had been aware of an intersection where most motorists were not following the traffic laws.
I had invited anyone to come out and observe, but had no takers.
Until last week, when CV23 came forward and offered to participate.

So we met and observed the 3 way stop on Valley and Kane Rds. One side was closed off starting today, but we went ahead and observed for at least 45 minutes or more. We also chatted with a traffic control person, aka Flagger. That was interesting as she related her thoughts on drivers in the Ktown area, based on projects she had worked on.

I had warned CV that compliance for motorists following the stop signs at this intersection would be less than 20 percent.
We did not count number of cars rather ones that actually stopped m or even nearly stopped.
He was surprised how bad it was , his estimate was 5 percent compliance... at most..
This is what I have mentioned on the forum before.

We also observed a few bikes most of which broke the rules. And we discussed the lack of accountability of bicycles on the road.
I am glad someone finally came out to observe this in person.

[Catsumi]

Very interesting, 60 years, but no surprise as I see the same thing at corners in vernon.

What is your next step now that you have this info?

[WalterWhite]

Great to see people (60; CV) that aren't just offering lip service on forums - but actually getting out and getting involved to try and make a difference. Unfortunately, I think your findings, as distressing as the results may be, are simply a small representation of driving habits (or lack thereof) in general - and not just only locally, but provincially. Interesting this was posted on Castanet's front page earlier today adding validity to your findings:

https://www.castanet.net/edition/news-s ... htm#206548

[spooker]

We also observed a few bikes most of which broke the rules. And we discussed the lack of accountability of bicycles on the road.

You've got my interest piqued with this discussion ... any conclusions? (just had a similar discussion on FB with another user)

Part of the reason I bring this up goes back to the call from many that cyclists need to be ticketed for bad behaviour etc ... but we've seen the data that cyclists do get ticketed ...

We've got drivers and cyclists acting badly ... instead of trying to beat them around the head and shoulders with the "rules of the road" can we not look at designing things such that the "right choice" is the easiest to make?

Safe Systems - https://roadsafety.piarc.org/en/road-safety-management-safe-system-approach/safe-system-principles
Vision Zero - http://www.visionzeroinitiative.com/

[tsayta]

can we do it again? i missed the invitation

[60-YEARS-in-Ktown]

I think we should have more, in the interest of fairness and balance.. I think we should take this further..

[s_man422]

I remember looking at the development application for the 2 buildings that are being built on the corner and the city wanted them to leave land right on the corner for a future a roundabout. Looking forward to that, hopefully they don't take as long as the one at Cross took.

[kumazatheef]

I had warned CV that compliance for motorists following the stop signs at this intersection would be less than 20 percent.
We did not count number of cars rather ones that actually stopped m or even nearly stopped.
He was surprised how bad it was , his estimate was 5 percent compliance... at most..

What would the numbers look like if the signs were changed to yield signs?
Converting intersections to round is costly, yield-signs are a good compromise.

[Bsuds]

What about taking a video of the intersection and either giving it to the RCMP or CHBC.

I'm considering doing that in a school zone near me where speeding is rampant.

[JLives]

I don't know about that. I travel this intersection daily and most people follow the rules. With exceptions of course. Mind you, I'm just travelling through and not staying and observing either.

[TylerM4]

Go to an intersection with obstructed/limited views where people actually need to stop before safely proceeding and I think you'd find the compliance a lot higher.

It's like back country bans. People being in the back country isn't the cause of the fires, it's people making poor decisions while they are in the back country that causes fires. Many stop signs are the same idea - can't trust people to slow down enough so they can safely enter the intersection so they place a stop sign instead of a yield. As a result, many don't obey.

Next time you're following a cop car, see if they come to a complete stop. I think you'll be surprised.

[60-YEARS-in-Ktown]

If it was a yield sign it would be worse. Stop sign does not mean stop If someone else is visible, it means come to a complete stop. Every time, all the time..

[kumazatheef]

If it was a yield sign it would be worse. Stop sign does not mean stop If someone else is visible, it means come to a complete stop. Every time, all the time..

How would it be worse? Re-stating an already proven broken rule doesn't make it "less broken".

A yield sign means that you must let the traffic on the through road have the right‐of‐way. You may enter the intersection without stopping if there are no pedestrians, cyclists or vehicles on the through road. But you must slow down (and stop if necessary) and wait for a safe gap if there is traffic on the through road

[GordonH]

If it was a yield sign it would be worse. Stop sign does not mean stop If someone else is visible, it means come to a complete stop. Every time, all the time..

With some drivers (as well some cyclists), slow & stop is actually same thing. Both start with an "S" and are 4 letters long.
I use the 4 way at Ethel & Rose number of times a week, it's a little shocking how many of both modes of transportation don't know the rules for a 4 way stop. Good thing it's not a busy 4 way

[60-YEARS-in-Ktown]

I am betting that 3 way went in there, because of the amount of collisions and near misses.
Before that I believe Valley was through traffic, and Kane had the STOP sign.
I think what surprised CV23 the most, was the paid professional drivers, blowing it. Gravel truck and pup, work cube vans with company logos, even a city truck pulling a trailer .
The other thing he noticed was that turning Right on to Valley, they had not one but 2 stop signs, one on each side of them.
And even that us not enough..