Develop the ALR?

Re: Develop the ALR?

Postby LANDM » Aug 9th, 2018, 1:05 pm

northglenmore2012 wrote:Try and get land excluded out of the ALR without the consent of City Hall even if the ALC gives the thumbs up. If you think the ALR is controlled by the ALC you'd better take a closer look. What ever you do don't waste your money on all the applications, which can be considerable, talk to someone with authority in the planning department, if they give you a unofficial thumbs up, then proceed. If there is any indication that it would not be supported within the planning department, save your money. They make the decisions.


And try to get land excluded out of the ALR with the consent of City Hall. They don't care.
If you think the ALC is impacted by the opinion of the City, on an individual basis, you'd better take a closer look.
What has happened, in many municipalities, is that the approving departments will say that they would approve it, knowing full well that the ALC will turn it down. It shifts the "bad guy" responsibility downstream.

Now if you are in a more remote area.....say a fishing camp or something like that, you can probably scam the system and get land excluded from the ALR to profit handsomely.......in the city it is not so easy.:popcorn:
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Re: Develop the ALR?

Postby Nedroj » Aug 9th, 2018, 3:29 pm

Nedroj wrote:If you knew any history of Kelowna you would know that Glenmore had a nickname way back when it was all orchards and farms. It was called "Starvation Flats" because the frost would routinely damage or destroy their crops leading to some very hard years for the people attempting to make a living there. This is why all of lower glenmore was allowed to be developed, where as the upper elevations of glenmore around Dilworth Mountain are still in the ALR. Also if you havent been made aware of but the entire Apple business in the okanagan went to sh*!s years ago when we started to compete with washington apples. Hence why many apple farms have switched over to grapes and cherries.

Other ways around the ALR "no develop" rules besides applying for removal are to build a golf course, winery, or an inheritance based subdivision.


This photo from the past shows otherwise...

https://www.facebook.com/OldKelowna/pho ... 78/?type=3

The apple business went to :cuss: specifically because the balance between having enough land base to compete with Washington fruit industry was tilted by the Bennett cabalists when they began turning ALR lands into their own personal fortune.

The volume of fruit necessary to compete with Washington was severely and deliberately diminished by this cabal due to their absconding with ALR lands.

An investigation needs to be down as to what happened to the thousands of acres of ALR land that has been bulldozed over in Glenmore.

What arable agriculture lands have been set aside to replace the loss of these thousands of acres of productive ALR land in Glenmore??

If you knew any history of Kelowna you wouldn't have posted this cabalist inspired drivel.

Truth is, the glacial till soils in Glenmore were best and ideally suited for agriculture once irrigation was brought in.

There are hundreds of Glenmore residents who regret paying so much for their homes there, and who are now dealing with cracking, shifting foundations and sinkhole issues once these lands were turned into the residential mess it is today.

Is the developer stepping up to mitigate these ongoing problems for these duped homeowners?[/quote]

You're seriously going off of ONE PHOTO as evidence contrary to my knowledge? Let me give you a history lesson then.

I was a land Surveyor for a local firm. My main job was designing and creating subdivisions in and around Kelowna, Lake country and West Kelowna. Now Im not old enough to be around back in the 1940's but My partner I worked with was born and raised in kelowna back when Kelowna, Mission and Rutland were separate towns. You know before there ever was a bridge and before Glenmore was developed. He told me stories as we were surveying in the first phase of the Wilden neighborhood in the highlands above Glenmore about how hardly anyone could make a living farming here because of the frost damage. It happens often in low lying areas and if it happens when the fruit blossoms are out, they get damaged enough to not produce any fruit.
'I hear and I forget, I see and I remember, I do and I understand' - Confucius
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Re: Develop the ALR?

Postby Catri » Aug 10th, 2018, 1:22 am

LANDM wrote:Land that's been removed from the ALR is *NOT* ALR land. Please read what you stated and what I said.

Of course the city is responsible for all of the things you mentioned. But, they are NOT responsible for *overseeing and regulating the development of any ALR land".

Why don't people read????? :135:


I thought it was fairly clear that I meant current ALR land that would have to be removed from the reserve to open it to development. I thought readers would be clever enough to infer that. My mistake.
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Re: Develop the ALR?

Postby LANDM » Aug 10th, 2018, 5:43 am

Catri wrote:
LANDM wrote:Land that's been removed from the ALR is *NOT* ALR land. Please read what you stated and what I said.

Of course the city is responsible for all of the things you mentioned. But, they are NOT responsible for *overseeing and regulating the development of any ALR land".

Why don't people read????? :135:


I thought it was fairly clear that I meant current ALR land that would have to be removed from the reserve to open it to development. I thought readers would be clever enough to infer that. My mistake.


Words matter so no, it wasn’t clear at all and yes, it was your mistake.

But, since you rely on inference rather than clarity, aside from the block exclusion that occurred in North Glenmore, what other parcels would you be referring to in our area that the city should be dealing with?

You seem to infer that this is a situation that happens regularly.....or is this being too clever and you are referring only to a one time event 30 years ago? In which case your comment above is meaningless.
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Re: Develop the ALR?

Postby Catri » Aug 10th, 2018, 9:41 am

Oh for pity sake LANDM, read the thread title. The whole thing is the question of potentially developing ALR land. You're just being tedious now. I'm done.
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Re: Develop the ALR?

Postby northglenmore2012 » Aug 10th, 2018, 1:12 pm

For crying out loud "LandM" chill out, have a cool one. This forum is open to anyone as a lively debate. Not to chastise, belittle and be down right rude. It's really becoming tiring.

Just for your information, the first step in the process to exclude ALR land is a $1,500.00 application fee paid to the municipality. There ya go, spin it any way ya want.
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Re: Develop the ALR?

Postby ferri » Aug 10th, 2018, 1:49 pm

:200: *Stop making it personal and get back on topic please.
“When someone is nasty or treats you poorly, don't take it personally. It says nothing about you, but a lot about them.” ― Michael Josephson
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Re: Develop the ALR?

Postby LANDM » Aug 10th, 2018, 2:57 pm

Catri wrote:Oh for pity sake LANDM, read the thread title. The whole thing is the question of potentially developing ALR land. You're just being tedious now. I'm done.

Oh, so you were just making theoretical comments?

Ok, bye bye. :up:
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Re: Develop the ALR?

Postby LANDM » Aug 10th, 2018, 3:07 pm

northglenmore2012 wrote:For crying out loud "LandM" chill out, have a cool one. This forum is open to anyone as a lively debate. Not to chastise, belittle and be down right rude. It's really becoming tiring.

Just for your information, the first step in the process to exclude ALR land is a $1,500.00 application fee paid to the municipality. There ya go, spin it any way ya want.


Thanks for the advice to have I cool one. I never would have thought of it on a hot day.
I can only assume that "lively debate" only means comments that don’t run counter to what you say or which correct something that is incorrect. And yes, it is open to anyone, including myself. That is the way an anonymous discussion forum works, no?

As for your first step in the process, that is fine if you wish to put $1500 in a little pile and burn it. I would suggest taking a realistic view as to whether the commission would approve it before I gave the city a penny. They have no power to make it happen on an individual basis. But, you can spin it any way you want and spend your money any way you want, of course.

I assume that is also not meeting your criteria of lively debate so, if you get really tired, just chill out, have a cold one and take a long nap. :130:

The ALC will still be there on Monday, ready to say no to your application and the city will still be there, entirely happy to take your money to apply. :admin:
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Re: Develop the ALR?

Postby Terris » Aug 16th, 2018, 4:43 pm

Nedroj wrote:You're seriously going off of ONE PHOTO as evidence contrary to my knowledge? Let me give you a history lesson then.


Yup; since this decades old photo and my knowledge from growing up entirely in North Glenmore from 1959 till 1981 are, in fact, evidence to the contrary of your "knowledge".

Nearly all of Glenmore was farmed and/or had an orchard during those years. Just as nearly the entire strip along Highway 97 up to and past the ironically named Orchard Park was similarly mainly farms and orchards.

That's the history I'm familiar with....

Nedroj wrote:I was a land Surveyor for a local firm. My main job was designing and creating subdivisions in and around Kelowna, Lake country and West Kelowna. Now Im not old enough to be around back in the 1940's but My partner I worked with was born and raised in kelowna back when Kelowna, Mission and Rutland were separate towns. You know before there ever was a bridge and before Glenmore was developed. He told me stories as we were surveying in the first phase of the Wilden neighborhood in the highlands above Glenmore about how hardly anyone could make a living farming here because of the frost damage. It happens often in low lying areas and if it happens when the fruit blossoms are out, they get damaged enough to not produce any fruit.


Orchards were present in Glenmore already back in the 40's.

http://glenmoreellison.com/about/history/

Orchardists figured out how to mitigate any frost issues long before that. Ie Smudge pots that were regularly seen glowing at night in these and other orchards throughout the valley.

As a land surveyor, how much actual orcharding or farming work did you engage in to come up with such a broad stroke statement? I mean besides hearing stories from another non-farmer land surveyor who in all obvious likelihood was hired by the Bennett/LANDM cabal in the first place.

The Highlands and were not called "The Highlands" back then. That's just a slick marketing ploy and the area now called "Wilden" was never used for orchards; but cattle ranged freely well into the mid 70's on what was designated as ALR land. We regularly has cows raiding the gardens in the Dallas Rd subdivision and in the hayfields below.

Here's an update on the ALR/ALC...

https://engage.gov.bc.ca/agriculturallandreserve/

Also...

It wasn't just the orchards we have lost. There was once a thriving food processing industry that has now been entirely subsumed by land developing cabalists.

More "history" for ya...

https://open.library.ubc.ca/cIRcle/coll ... /1.0108915

Nice try though... :up:
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Re: Develop the ALR?

Postby LANDM » Aug 19th, 2018, 12:21 pm

removed.
Last edited by Triple 6 on Aug 20th, 2018, 6:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: off topic
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Re: Develop the ALR?

Postby Terris » Aug 19th, 2018, 5:33 pm

Your cabal has made billion$ and you have led a life of indulgent luxury, free of any labor, from questionably exempted and subsumed ALR lands, and from stolen Doukhobor lands and all you can offer in return here is uninformed tripe?
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Re: Develop the ALR?

Postby Terris » Aug 25th, 2018, 5:09 pm

https://www.castanet.net/news/Business/ ... ic-farming

https://www.castanet.net/news/Business/ ... pportunity

Increasing global demand for food will be the agri-opportunity of the future.

Too bad the majority of the prime Okanagan ALR land has already been "developed" by a short sighted few...
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Re: Develop the ALR?

Postby Grandan » Dec 7th, 2018, 3:25 pm

Terris wrote:https://www.castanet.net/news/Business/234824/8-3M-for-organic-farming

https://www.castanet.net/news/Business/ ... pportunity

Increasing global demand for food will be the agri-opportunity of the future.

Too bad the majority of the prime Okanagan ALR land has already been "developed" by a short sighted few...

From the UBC research:
It is clear that the zenith of the canning
industry was in the late 1940s and early 1950s when there were at least seventeen
canneries in independent commercial operation.


Growers were in the
position where once their crops were harvested they quickly needed to sell. This was
especially so in the early years when refrigeration was not an option. The aim was to
ensure that the fruit was still ripe; thus maximizing their return. Yet this was fraught with
difficulty. They not only had to market their goods, but also had to transport them. Often
they had to sell, in the words of Ian: “wherever a market could be found and at whatever
price the orchardists could get.”1

It was not all beer and skittles for farmers. Globalization and refrigeration killed the industry not selling off the ALR land.
It would seem to me that providing a comfortable climate for retirement for people who have worked their entire lives to achieve that may have more economic benefit than growing fresh fruit and vegetables locally. It should not be necessary to have farms intermixed with an urban environment and the ALR must give way to reasonable orderly development of a city.
If local produce is your thing then why not try sprouting seeds for your salad next time?
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Re: Develop the ALR?

Postby Terris » Dec 7th, 2018, 4:45 pm

Grandan wrote:
Terris wrote:https://www.castanet.net/news/Business/234824/8-3M-for-organic-farming

https://www.castanet.net/news/Business/ ... pportunity

Increasing global demand for food will be the agri-opportunity of the future.

Too bad the majority of the prime Okanagan ALR land has already been "developed" by a short sighted few...

From the UBC research:
It is clear that the zenith of the canning
industry was in the late 1940s and early 1950s when there were at least seventeen
canneries in independent commercial operation.


Growers were in the
position where once their crops were harvested they quickly needed to sell. This was
especially so in the early years when refrigeration was not an option. The aim was to
ensure that the fruit was still ripe; thus maximizing their return. Yet this was fraught with
difficulty. They not only had to market their goods, but also had to transport them. Often
they had to sell, in the words of Ian: “wherever a market could be found and at whatever
price the orchardists could get.”1

It was not all beer and skittles for farmers. Globalization and refrigeration killed the industry not selling off the ALR land.
It would seem to me that providing a comfortable climate for retirement for people who have worked their entire lives to achieve that may have more economic benefit than growing fresh fruit and vegetables locally. It should not be necessary to have farms intermixed with an urban environment and the ALR must give way to reasonable orderly development of a city.
If local produce is your thing then why not try sprouting seeds for your salad next time?


:135:

NEWS FLASH !!

Agricultural technology and techniques have changed since the 40's and 50's, unlike the "develop the *bleep* outa the land at all costs and damn the naysayers and payers of infrastructure taxes and the future" mentality that has, unfortunately, brought us to this sorry state of affairs.

If the original ALR base, that was available prior to the implementation of the ALR in 1971, and especially the ALR lands absconded with since 1971, had been even modestly maintained, the socio/economic base for Kelowna and the entire Okanagan region would now look much different indeed.

We would probably have less population but the lifestyle would be far better than what we have now.

With a maintained agricultural base along with today's technology the Okanagan would be a much greater economic force than what is available to the industry now due to arable land losses to the forces of real estate speculation.

Had this base been maintained one can easily foresee more and better paying local jobs, more affordable housing, greater social ease and contentment, and more realistic and organic vacation destination. Less traffic problems, less, crime, less homeless issues would all have been more likely...

Cut to today, and we now have all the problems of a big city except more concentrated; with no actual leadership, and zero foresight to make things amenable to all residents rather than just dotards and the local, entitled nouveau riche' aristocrats.

We have been duped people; and left hanging with $1 billion infrastructure costs being foisted onto the taxpayers while the root cause of these infrastructure costs, "DEVELOPERS", get off scot free...

I say; save the ALR, increase taxes for all wannabe "developers" and keep them on the hook for these costs for at least 20 years, and confiscate those remaining ALR lands being held hostage and unfarmed by billionaire land speculators, and return access to the people...
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