Castanet

Terris wrote:I say; save the ALR, increase taxes for all wannabe "developers" and keep them on the hook for these costs for at least 20 years, and confiscate those remaining ALR lands being held hostage and unfarmed by billionaire land speculators, and return access to the people...

Even better than the confiscation part, why not go back a few years and confiscate all sales proceeds from those who had their land removed from the ALR and then subsequently sold and profited from it!
Do you agree with that ol' buddy ol' pal?

Something tells me that your socialism/communism only goes as far as reaching into the pockets of others.

Ok then...

I'll put it out there...

What does the greater populace view as fair?

Should a single group of wealthy individuals, LANDM included, who have amassed immense wealth derived from real estate speculating and development and destruction of former ALR lands throughout the Okanagan and elsewhere in the province, and through direct political connections and insider knowledge; be allowed to continue to hold vast swaths of ALR land (millions of acres?) in an unfarmed state, and restricting the expansion of the agricultural industry here, while speculating that this land will someday be reverted in other development use, all the while hiding themselves from view and making no visible or substantive beneficial contributions to the community and taking $billion$ from their chicaneries and then blocking public access to a stretch of rail trail owned and paid for by the taxpaying public?

I'd say it's time to give something back...

You should lead the pack in giving back.

Start with the profits off your land sale after removing it from the ALR, as you have clearly stated in these threads.

I own two farm properties in the North Glenmore valley(west slope). The land is useless for growing anything besides more Glenmore clay! Both properties once were used to grow apples. All became unprofitable in the 80’s and the previous owners yanked out the trees and resorted to grow hay instead.
Forward to today, I can’t even get anyone to grow alfalfa there anymore. The land floods every year now and remains soggy into May. Not a single fruit tree would survive there, let alone flourish!
My personal belief is that surrounding ground pressure from all the development (Wilden/North Glenmore) in the area has had a profound impact on water table.

Been trying to lease out land for some type of treefruit production however with all the moisture in the ground and the heavy clay no one wants to invest labour and capital. So as a farmer what am I to do with said land?
I was looking into perhaps doing some form of vegetable production, in a greenhouse type of environment..
I had walked into city hall to try and get more info on requirements a few years back but was quickly turned off by all the hoops I would need to jump through to get anything off the ground, that wasn’t going to cost me a small fortune.
Guess I’ll wait a few more years, leave land fallow, and wait till food prices completely go through the roof? Maybe then I’d be more inclined to invest money and long hours to try and turn a profit.

O, wait maybe some will want to take my land away... cause I can’t and won’t grow food today?

t76turbo wrote:I own two farm properties in the North Glenmore valley(west slope). The land is useless for growing anything besides more Glenmore clay! Both properties once were used to grow apples. All became unprofitable in the 80’s and the previous owners yanked out the trees and resorted to grow hay instead.
Forward to today, I can’t even get anyone to grow alfalfa there anymore. The land floods every year now and remains soggy into May. Not a single fruit tree would survive there, let alone flourish!
My personal belief is that surrounding ground pressure from all the development (Wilden/North Glenmore) in the area has had a profound impact on water table.

Been trying to lease out land for some type of treefruit production however with all the moisture in the ground and the heavy clay no one wants to invest labour and capital. So as a farmer what am I to do with said land?
I was looking into perhaps doing some form of vegetable production, in a greenhouse type of environment..
I had walked into city hall to try and get more info on requirements a few years back but was quickly turned off by all the hoops I would need to jump through to get anything off the ground, that wasn’t going to cost me a small fortune.
Guess I’ll wait a few more years, leave land fallow, and wait till food prices completely go through the roof? Maybe then I’d be more inclined to invest money and long hours to try and turn a profit.

O, wait maybe some will want to take my land away... cause I can’t and won’t grow food today?

Maybe more supportive housing could go here. Another 100-150 units should make a tremendous difference. Or maybe a new building for Inn from the Cold?

t76turbo wrote:I own two farm properties in the North Glenmore valley(west slope). The land is useless for growing anything besides more Glenmore clay! Both properties once were used to grow apples. All became unprofitable in the 80’s and the previous owners yanked out the trees and resorted to grow hay instead.
Forward to today, I can’t even get anyone to grow alfalfa there anymore. The land floods every year now and remains soggy into May. Not a single fruit tree would survive there, let alone flourish!
My personal belief is that surrounding ground pressure from all the development (Wilden/North Glenmore) in the area has had a profound impact on water table.

Been trying to lease out land for some type of treefruit production however with all the moisture in the ground and the heavy clay no one wants to invest labour and capital. So as a farmer what am I to do with said land?
I was looking into perhaps doing some form of vegetable production, in a greenhouse type of environment..
I had walked into city hall to try and get more info on requirements a few years back but was quickly turned off by all the hoops I would need to jump through to get anything off the ground, that wasn’t going to cost me a small fortune.
Guess I’ll wait a few more years, leave land fallow, and wait till food prices completely go through the roof? Maybe then I’d be more inclined to invest money and long hours to try and turn a profit.

O, wait maybe some will want to take my land away... cause I can’t and won’t grow food today?

If you're on the west slope, you are above the clay.

The whole valley, bottom and slope, was loaded with orchards, and hayfields before all the "developments" began in the early 90's.

I have worked on a GIS project there which indicates water table issues are an issue along the valley bottom lands, mainly sinkholes, and foundation and infrastructure issues, but nothing has been mentioned on the slopes, which would be, obviously, prime view land.

Wow...

What an interesting coincidence.

What I suspect here, is that you are taking the liberty of engaging in fake news, and in fact, are not a farmer but a developer/speculator who has been stuck with some ALR lands which you have never had any intention of farming...



Nice try LANDM...

Terris wrote:Agricultural technology and techniques have changed since the 40's and 50's, unlike the "develop the crap outa the land at all costs and damn the naysayers and payers of infrastructure taxes and the future" mentality that has, unfortunately, brought us to this sorry state of affairs.

If the original ALR base, that was available prior to the implementation of the ALR in 1971, and especially the ALR lands absconded with since 1971, had been even modestly maintained, the socio/economic base for Kelowna and the entire Okanagan region would now look much different indeed.

We would probably have less population but the lifestyle would be far better than what we have now.

With a maintained agricultural base along with today's technology the Okanagan would be a much greater economic force than what is available to the industry now due to arable land losses to the forces of real estate speculation.

Had this base been maintained one can easily foresee more and better paying local jobs, more affordable housing, greater social ease and contentment, and more realistic and organic vacation destination. Less traffic problems, less, crime, less homeless issues would all have been more likely...

Cut to today, and we now have all the problems of a big city except more concentrated; with no actual leadership, and zero foresight to make things amenable to all residents rather than just dotards and the local, entitled nouveau riche' aristocrats.

We have been duped people; and left hanging with $1 billion infrastructure costs being foisted onto the taxpayers while the root cause of these infrastructure costs, "DEVELOPERS", get off scot free...

I say; save the ALR, increase taxes for all wannabe "developers" and keep them on the hook for these costs for at least 20 years, and confiscate those remaining ALR lands being held hostage and unfarmed by billionaire land speculators, and return access to the people...

The residents who occupy the homes that were built on development land will pay taxes forever. The developer builds the development, kicks in DCC money and warranties the development to be free of problems. Should they pay more and pass the cost onto the buyers? Without a market demand, nothing would get built so you have blame people from all over the world for coming to our wonderful city to enjoy our wonderful 4 seasons climate and activities such as golf, boating and swimming, skiing and shopping to name a few. To suggest that it could have been another path is ridiculous because everybody did their part to facilitate what we have today. Part of the problem here is that the old guard understood the need to corner the market on some of the best land and allow just a dribble to go to market, that is until an out of towner came along and flooded the market with low cost lots in places like Springvalley, Black Mountain and Glenrosa.

Grandan wrote:The residents who occupy the homes that were built on development land will pay taxes forever. The developer builds the development, kicks in DCC money and warranties the development to be free of problems. Should they pay more and pass the cost onto the buyers? Without a market demand, nothing would get built so you have blame people from all over the world for coming to our wonderful city to enjoy our wonderful 4 seasons climate and activities such as golf, boating and swimming, skiing and shopping to name a few. To suggest that it could have been another path is ridiculous because everybody did their part to facilitate what we have today. Part of the problem here is that the old guard understood the need to corner the market on some of the best land and allow just a dribble to go to market, that is until an out of towner came along and flooded the market with low cost lots in places like Springvalley, Black Mountain and Glenrosa.

Roger that Gord Gekko..

You've pinpointed some of the problems, yet you support those who have caused the problems. You see low cost lots as a problem??

Hmmm...

"Our wonderful 4 seasons climate and activities such as golf, boating and swimming, skiing and shopping to name a few" existed here long before "developers", especially out-of-town "developers" decided to make it "better" (ie. more expensive) for the average family and more profitable for themselves..

People used to also come here to see and smell fruit trees blossoming in the spring, buy fresh farmed food and to experience a peaceful and tranquil place in which they could seriously unwind from the stresses of life.

I believe you're confusing "development" with progress. Kelowna has not progressed through all this development simply because of the onerous, cost increasing weight of all the development and yes, I believe developers need to pay more up front, and be on the hook for a longer time as result of their developments.

In my opinion, Kelowna has NOT progressed as a result of development.

Grandan wrote:To suggest that it could have been another path is ridiculous because everybody did their part to facilitate what we have today. Part of the problem here is that the old guard understood the need to corner the market on some of the best land and allow just a dribble to go to market...

Precisely... The need; the need for greed. The dribble you refer to, is from the swollen prostates of the old guard bearing down on ALR lands that they revert into "development" properties and who "did their part" through coercion and extortive methods. Ref. blocking a section of the rail trail.

These are not benevolent people.

They are literally land sharks, chewing off chunks of land meat and only allowing the rest us to scavenge the pieces that fall from their shark teeth jaws and drop to the bottom of the land pool, because they know that eventually they will come back and gobble up those who dared to buy up what they see as all theirs.

Kelowna and the Okanagan in general were on the right path for decades as an agricultural breadbasket before the old guard (cabal), through direct political insider influence from the highest levels of the provincial government and who, while smug with entitlement from the family of their provincial overlords, decided to swoop in and "corner the market on the best land".

Not only does this local cabal/old guard control 100,000'$ of thou$and$ of ALR lands, now lying fallow and unfarmed, as a monopoly, they hold these lands, through all their speculations, hostage from those who would actually farm these lands thus handicapping the viability of the agriculture industry here.

I further submit that part of the reason this is happening is based in racism; as it is apparent that East Indian immigrants have been the largest acquisition force of all the available ALR lands in the valley.

So what we now have here, after only a few decades into the reign of the old guard/cabal, is a handicapped agriculture industry, unaffordable real estate, snarled traffic, working poor, working "retired" and homelessness and crime issues etc. etc. etc... all wrought by a single small cabal of an old guard.

This is not such a great deal for those in the majority of residents who are outside the cabal membership.

But hey... At least we have a Porsche dealership...

Addendum...

https://www.castanet.net/edition/news-s ... htm#245099

Thanks "old guard"...

Bumped

I get the feeling the writer of this letter doesn’t know about BC ALR.
https://www.castanet.net/news/Letters/3 ... -need-help

I say to any of the local apple growers here if you don’t like the prices, EXIT, or subdivide and sell your palatial mansion, and your luxury cars. ....... Orchardists should stop making a fool of themselves by having an apple fire sale at 12 cents a pound, because they are not suffering obviously.

^

But all the money the government took from taxpayers pockets to give to "the apple industry" over the years, only
went to certain apple growers and apple middle men - others got nothing. The small guy usually gets nothing.

GordonH wrote:Bumped
I get the feeling the writer of this letter doesn’t know about BC ALR.
https://www.castanet.net/news/Letters/3 ... -need-help

Exactly...

Those palatial orchard homes referred to, belong mainly to out of town developers who were sold on the premise of owning ALR land that would eventually be excluded from the ALR. Know what I mean... (nudge, nudge; wink, wink...)

What is really needed is an Industrial Land Reserve (ILR) As appealing as the Tolko property is for residential development, there is no way that the job loss is sustainable to the community. There needs to be an equal amount of property to be set aside for light industrial properties that can sustain employment within our community.
Wouldnt it be great if there could be a world class boat manufacturer right on the waterfront? Not likely to happen with out a ILR or similar in place.
Short sighted politicians. Remember to cast your ballot.

During the Liberal government years, some will recall the ALR was divided into 2 areas.
Richard Bullock, a local orchardist and the head of the ALR was fired and replaced by a businessman from Vancouver Island.
This move was orchestrated by Norm Letnick who was AG minister at the time, also the MLA representing Glenmore/Lake Country.
This was changed when the NDP became government.
An earlier post noted that thousands of acres of farmland rest in the hands of a select group., throughout Kelowna.
One example is prime growing land while not designated ALR is owned by Victor Projects (Bennetts) and slated for the new Costco store.
Along Benvoulin Road hundred of acres are prime farmland, with a never expanding nursery.
I recall the common saw of "it's clay, its this its that...haven't grown onions for years " being used by members of our city council as they voted yes for another development of prime growing land.

Terris wrote:

GordonH wrote:Bumped
I get the feeling the writer of this letter doesn’t know about BC ALR.
https://www.castanet.net/news/Letters/3 ... -need-help

Exactly...

Those palatial orchard homes referred to, belong mainly to out of town developers who were sold on the premise of owning ALR land that would eventually be excluded from the ALR. Know what I mean... (nudge, nudge; wink, wink...)

Certain posters know all about profiting off of buying ALR land, excluding it from the ALR, and selling for much more.
Nudge nudge, wink wink. Right?