Develop the ALR?

[LANDM]

Here's some of the Historyish 101 on the whys and how the Okanagan became the focal point of the ALR (but really it's future development land) debate.

Really, really neat too, that one of the scions of the original players regularly posts here...

http://www.bcpl8s.ca/thesis/chap5.htm

[Grandan]

Here's some of the Historyish 101 on the whys and how the Okanagan became the focal point of the ALR (but really it's future development land) debate.

Really, really neat too, that one of the scions of the original players regularly posts here...

http://www.bcpl8s.ca/thesis/chap5.htm

That is quite the interesting essay.
It is no surprise to me that more than 40 years later we are still fighting this battle.
I think it is time for a remake. What happened to the policy statement that the ALC would set about to refine the ALR boundaries and throw out land that was not viable for agriculture?

[LANDM]

I've had some experience with ALR land issues.

In my experience the basic ALR guidelines have been played around with by those with the most influence and cash.

I say we need an inquiry into the ALR to find out who has been profiting most from ALR land reversions...

Like when you removed your fishing camp from the ALR and profited from that? I guess you do have some experience there!

Good for you......you are a wonderful and successful member of the Cabal.

I just didn’t think you had your Bcomm?!?! You seem less......educated.

[Deean]

NO!!

[kelbear25]

I wonder if there is some middle ground to have housing on ALR land? Keep a portion of productive land for farming, and have a agriculture based housing development around it. Or a housing development with gardens and fruit trees as a central theme. This fits with the idea of ensuring food sustainability.

[AlienSoldier]

As the City expands zones need to be changed accordingly. There is no reason to have a farmland separating so much of the City causing it to expand into different zones. This increases costs for services, maintenance, policing etc.

[Grandan]

As the City expands zones need to be changed accordingly. There is no reason to have a farmland separating so much of the City causing it to expand into different zones. This increases costs for services, maintenance, policing etc.

It artificially raises the price of land by eliminating the supply. It does not seem to make sense to create bubbles of land surrounded by housing and resticting the viability of actually farming that land. Too much ALR land is "farm" in the form of creative book-keeping. I don't see that keeping several horses and feeding them all that hay somehow qualifies for farm status.
Or better still growing hay so that rich people can indulge their equestrian interests.
The available land for redevelopment will soon run out then what? The ALC needs to get in gear and accept the fact that food is mostly grown elsewhere.

[Jflem1983]

As the City expands zones need to be changed accordingly. There is no reason to have a farmland separating so much of the City causing it to expand into different zones. This increases costs for services, maintenance, policing etc.

It artificially raises the price of land by eliminating the supply. It does not seem to make sense to create bubbles of land surrounded by housing and resticting the viability of actually farming that land. Too much ALR land is "farm" in the form of creative book-keeping. I don't see that keeping several horses and feeding them all that hay somehow qualifies for farm status.
Or better still growing hay so that rich people can indulge their equestrian interests.
The available land for redevelopment will soon run out then what? The ALC needs to get in gear and accept the fact that food is mostly grown elsewhere.

Lets be honest. KELOWNA would be even uglier with even more condos packed even tighter together . Were it not for the ALR. In many ways i am against it. Government hands on farm lands is no good. However for Kelowna .. the ALR has worked wonders. We have green pastures all over town. Without that we would just be Surrey by the lake

[alanjh595]

This is what Kelowna is going to look like in the near future.

Is this what you want?

[Grandan]

Lets be honest. KELOWNA would be even uglier with even more condos packed even tighter together . Were it not for the ALR. In many ways i am against it. Government hands on farm lands is no good. However for Kelowna .. the ALR has worked wonders. We have green pastures all over town. Without that we would just be Surrey by the lake

I'm not sure where the "all or nothing" idea came from, I am not in favour of turning all the ALR land into housing.
What I am opposed to is the way that the ALR is problematic in creating barriers in the city to block the orderly development of city infrastructure. The premium bottom land where corn is grown, hillsides where you can safely operate a tractor on and other large contiguous parcels should be preserved.
It does not make sense to keep fully developed single family lots in the ALR. Land that is inundated with water, too steep to farm, too constricted to spray without affecting existing homes, all need to be on the table to help ease a housing shortage.
What the ALR will force on Kelowna is in fact tightly packed condos reaching for the sky on every scrap of land that is not in the ALR.
There are massive tracts of land throughout Kelowna that are fallow or have never been farmed other than being used as range land. There is no shortage of land that could be farmed but isn't. Farm land surrounded by housing is not an efficient use of land because of the complaints from animal dung, crop spraying, night time activities and fear of migrant workers.
The whole system needs to be revamped with a rational balance between the needs of the community and protection of real farmland.

[Eyeswideopen]

I would rather see ALR being filled in than houses being built further and further up the mountainside. It's not just an eyesore. It causes traffic problems because those people need to drive to go anywhere. But before any of that happens, make downtown denser. That seem to be happening with all the high rises going in downtown. Definitely build up rather than out. Less traffic problems and smog that way.

Smog in the valley is a big problem, especially in the summer. I watch the air quality index site and every year it gets worse. Add in all the forest fires like last year and it was really unpleasant to breath the air last summer. Felt irritable all the time, developed a constant hack, didn't sleeping well.

Also, they need to reserve some greenspace. Mission creek park is not enough. Before they fill in any ALR they need to start reserving large chunks of it for parks.

[Eyeswideopen]

This is what Kelowna is going to look like in the near future.

Capture.JPG

Is this what you want?

Would you rather see houses being built further up the mountainside? Those people are coming no matter what. Not building is not going to stop that. Now we have a very low rental availability problem. Because the people keep coming.

[Grandan]

This is what Kelowna is going to look like in the near future.

Capture.JPG

Is this what you want?

Would you rather see houses being built further up the mountainside? Those people are coming no matter what. Not building is not going to stop that. Now we have a very low rental availability problem. Because the people keep coming.

If it were as simple as building on the mountain sides it would not be so bad, the problem is that the hillsides are too steep to build on except for isolated pockets so consequently the mountain tops are instead being built on which are flat enough.
It means long roads to get there with not much in between. Dilworth is a classic example.
One of the primary drivers to the Okanagan economy is in fact the building of housing for retirees. By comparison the economic stimulus from growing hay to indulge rich people's equestrian passion is probably negative.

[LTD]

the hillsides are to steep lol that's a good one perhaps you should take off your blinders or get out of the house a bit more

[alanjh595]

Hillsides are great for grapes......IF.......they have the right exposure and soil conditions.

By comparison, have a look at Wilden and the steep slopes that they had to blast into to build a house.

Flat farmland that is sitting fallow for one of two reasons........The soil is bad for growing, or the owner is just sitting and waiting for rezoning. If the land has been used recently for farming, there is little chance that it can be taken out of the ALR in the future. These old-time farmers are much smarter than most give them credit for.