Homeless house strikes fear

Re: Homeless house strikes fear

Postby normaM » Jan 21st, 2019, 4:58 pm

Hosts for parties can be charged
I simply do not get why they cannot run a dry place.. therefore I think they worried ppl wouldn't move in / stay
Like going to a Spa to lose weigh and the donut truck rolls up 3 times a day
Dry.. neighbours would feel better, get rid of the unsavory types there to offer temptation
Years ago I did work at a place that even STAFF was not allowed to drink/do drugs ( honest it was the policy)

Besides as a rule meds taken to help with MH issues don't do well when mixed with other drugs or liquor.
Worked for a number of years in an Inner City drop in centre, zero tolerance. ( plus when ppl are doing " street" heroin they were simply too high risk to subject the staff to danger.)
Drop In was always full, so they can follow basic rules. To think they cannot is insulting to them IMO
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Re: Homeless house strikes fear

Postby spooker » Jan 21st, 2019, 5:07 pm

WalterWhite wrote:
I will respect myself enough to seek out assistance the next day to help in addressing
the matter.


This is one of the parts that caught my attention. If it was that easy to rely on their self-motivation and willpower, they wouldn't be in that predicament in the first place.


Sometimes you don't know where to go for help until it's living next door ...
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Re: Homeless house strikes fear

Postby WalterWhite » Jan 21st, 2019, 5:23 pm

WalterWhite wrote:
I will respect myself enough to seek out assistance the next day to help in addressing
the matter.


This is one of the parts that caught my attention. If it was that easy to rely on their self-motivation and willpower, they wouldn't be in that predicament in the first place.


spooker wrote:Sometimes you don't know where to go for help until it's living next door ...


My point is, whatever the help was - it was already there. Kicking any of the addictions we're talking about more often than not takes far more than simple will-power. Self-respect at the initial stages is but a fleeting glimpse of one's self.
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Re: Homeless house strikes fear

Postby Scrobins94 » Jan 21st, 2019, 5:33 pm

normaM wrote:I simply do not get why they cannot run a dry place..
Dry.. neighbours would feel better, get rid of the unsavory types there to offer temptation


Actually the proposed Freedom's Door on Mccurdy was supposed to be a dry facility and it still brought out the NIMBY attitude of the neighbors.

It'd be great to be able to "force" people to be clean or stay sober, however let's face it you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. That and there isn't a one solution fits all. Harm reduction by itself is a worthwhile cause.
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Re: Homeless house strikes fear

Postby Grandan » Jan 21st, 2019, 6:50 pm

WalterWhite wrote:What’s next, more schoolyard taunts like “I know you are, but what am I?”
Then comes the whining about not respecting what you have to say, but what do you expect with petty, jeuvenile taunts and retorts like this? Add something constructive and intelligent to the discussion.

I think you have me confused with someone else, I am not whining about anything. Please quote me where you think so.
I have consistently stated that future residents are being judged without even knowing a single one of them. They are not all the same. Facts are being conflated with inferences being made that they will all be thieves and drug addicts who will harm the local seniors.
What I am reading is opposition to the facility without knowing all the facts or any of the people. The concern of it being a wet facility acknowledges the reality that drying people out, getting residents off their drug of choice, be it alcohol or heroin is harder when people are homeless. Homeless people cannot receive welfare without an address.
For years we are hearing that something must be done to get homeless people off the street but with the previso that it not be in their neighbourhood.
It boggles my mind to think that anyone lucky enough to land in a facility such as the one proposed would jeopardize their situation by mugging one of the locals.
It is not a permanent lifetime stay, I read there was a maximum two year stay. It is one more tool to help people put their lives back together and become an asset to their community.
People who are down on their luck do not need obstacles, they need a hand up. There are many successful outcomes that never make it into front page news.
Compared to the Clerk of the Provincial Legislature and Sergent at arms earning $347,000 and $218,000 respectively who bilked the taxpayers of purported millions of dollars in lavish trips and expenses, the money to help homeless people is a drop in the bucket.
Waste not

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Re: Homeless house strikes fear

Postby WalterWhite » Jan 21st, 2019, 7:31 pm

Grandan, no one, certainly not myself, is saying every one the proposed inhabitants of this facility is going to be out robbing, raping and victimizing their neighbours. That’s absurd. What’s even more absurd however, is the fact that neither JHS, BC Housing, Interior Health or any other party to this has, other than a good neighbour policy, any way to ensure this substantial shift in dynamics to the immediate area will not have a profound negative effect.

Funny how the City of Nanaimo has had a very different outcome with their housing first projects, to the point they’ve enacted their nuisance property bylaw making those responsible in running the facility directly accountable for any and all policing and bylaw costs for issues concerning the property or their clients. Residents and property owners here simply don’t want to experience the same situation because by then it’s simply too late and it’s pointless to try and close the barn doors once the horses are out so to speak. Why is that so difficult to understand? Again, those residents are on record as saying they aren’t against the facility in principal - it’s the type of clientele and allowed behaviours they have concerns with.

Lastly, please - stop even remotely attempting to connect levels of government spending you feel are improper in comparison with costs for these facilities in what is a mind-boggling attempt at justification.
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Re: Homeless house strikes fear

Postby spooker » Jan 21st, 2019, 9:14 pm

I have to admit that I need more information from somewhere other than this forum to continue ... I keep seeing 'wet' thrown around but looking at the other facilities run by JHS nothing matches what keeps being described here, and it's hard to believe they'd do something out of their area of expertise ... I'm starting to question our understanding ... will post back when I know more ...

And Walter ... I agree that self-respect is one of the last things regained, sometimes if ever ... but there's no chance of it when society is making certain you don't get any as regular people will just spurn someone ... if we ever thought a person had value it's most needed when they themselves can't believe it ...
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Re: Homeless house strikes fear

Postby Fancy » Jan 21st, 2019, 9:32 pm

spooker wrote:I have to admit that I need more information from somewhere other than this forum to continue ... I keep seeing 'wet' thrown around but looking at the other facilities run by JHS nothing matches what keeps being described here, ..

Cardington was a "wet facility" and now the terminology has been changed to "harm reduction".
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Re: Homeless house strikes fear

Postby WalterWhite » Jan 21st, 2019, 9:49 pm

spooker wrote:I have to admit that I need more information from somewhere other than this forum to continue ... I keep seeing 'wet' thrown around but looking at the other facilities run by JHS nothing matches what keeps being described here, and it's hard to believe they'd do something out of their area of expertise ... I'm starting to question our understanding ... will post back when I know more ...

And Walter ... I agree that self-respect is one of the last things regained, sometimes if ever ... but there's no chance of it when society is making certain you don't get any as regular people will just spurn someone ... if we ever thought a person had value it's most needed when they themselves can't believe it ...


That’s my whole point spookier - where’s the treatment and rehab to provide them the basic necessities required to function in society so they can then achieve training and/or education to one day become a contributing member of society? Maintaining a life of substance abuse with nothing more than some basic unenforceable code of conduct without treatment to one day escape the addictions is simply maintaining the status quo. As as mentioned previously by another poster, where’s the government funding for the substance abuse treatment centres? Where’s the requirement for mandatory enrolment in treatment for one’s addictions if they’re requiring taxpayer funded housing and support? Why is it viewed as being so inhumane to ask for some sort of opportunity requiring minimal effort to better one’s place in life if it’s being paid for by the rest of society?
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Re: Homeless house strikes fear

Postby Grandan » Jan 22nd, 2019, 7:50 am

spooker wrote:I have to admit that I need more information from somewhere other than this forum to continue ... I keep seeing 'wet' thrown around but looking at the other facilities run by JHS nothing matches what keeps being described here, and it's hard to believe they'd do something out of their area of expertise ... I'm starting to question our understanding ... will post back when I know more ...

And Walter ... I agree that self-respect is one of the last things regained, sometimes if ever ... but there's no chance of it when society is making certain you don't get any as regular people will just spurn someone ... if we ever thought a person had value it's most needed when they themselves can't believe it ...

WalterWhite wrote:That’s my whole point spookier - where’s the treatment and rehab to provide them the basic necessities required to function in society so they can then achieve training and/or education to one day become a contributing member of society? Maintaining a life of substance abuse with nothing more than some basic unenforceable code of conduct without treatment to one day escape the addictions is simply maintaining the status quo. As as mentioned previously by another poster, where’s the government funding for the substance abuse treatment centres? Where’s the requirement for mandatory enrolment in treatment for one’s addictions if they’re requiring taxpayer funded housing and support? Why is it viewed as being so inhumane to ask for some sort of opportunity requiring minimal effort to better one’s place in life if it’s being paid for by the rest of society?

You ask valid questions Walter but the answers are not anywhere on these pages. The place to find the answers are on the streets working with people who who have the problems. There is no way to know unless you ask the questions of the people who have them, to understand the issues that drove each and every person to the brink. There are as many answers as there are homeless people and each of them has a multitude of facets. The Provincial Ministry of Health is mandated to provide medical care to all residents and treatment is part of the package but it is hard to do that when the individual is living out of a grocery cart. You don't need substance abuse treatment centres to treat individuals for alcohol or substance abuse. The way to treat people is to ensure that they have a safe warm place to stay and then put them into a program of normalization, ensuring that they obtain an nutritious diet and provide some tools to help them help themselves.
Every single person on the street is there for different reasons just as you and I are writing our thoughts on these pages. If it were just so simple as to put someone into substance abuse treatment centres using a cookie cutter approach and have them all come out the same simply does not work. The cost of having a stand alone substance abuse treatment centres to provide for homeless people would be significant as compared to providing housing with an individualized treatment program.
Canada is a country that does not round up the indigent from the streets and throw them in a cell to dry up. Help for all citizens is available but the person on the street does not always want to to be helped, they have a sense of pride in their ability to survive on the street and do not recognize that they are a danger to themselves. If someone is truly a danger to society there are mechanisms to place them in a secure facility where they can access treatment programs, we call them jails but in order to get there you must commit a crime that is worthy of placement there, just being a homeless person, drinking or using drugs does not qualify for placement nor does petty theft.
It should be noted that homelessness is a universal problem but it is exacerbated or made more visible when the places that homeless people congregate increases in population.
None of us know a single person or circumstance that will see an individual be placed in supportive housing. We do not know a single persons situation and what treatment they are undergoing and what steps they have taken to achieve a place in supportive housing. Only blanket statements from Castanetters as if one shoe fits all.
About the only way you are going to find out is to go undercover and live the life of a homeless person. That or volunteer to help in any way that you can and find out that there are infinite answers to infinite circumstances.
Waste not

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Re: Homeless house strikes fear

Postby the truth » Jan 22nd, 2019, 8:36 am

Fancy wrote:
spooker wrote:I have to admit that I need more information from somewhere other than this forum to continue ... I keep seeing 'wet' thrown around but looking at the other facilities run by JHS nothing matches what keeps being described here, ..

Cardington was a "wet facility" and now the terminology has been changed to "harm reduction".


exactly they are just playing word games,says it all if you think about it
"The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it." -George Orwell
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Re: Homeless house strikes fear

Postby wanderer » Jan 22nd, 2019, 8:43 am

Fancy wrote:
spooker wrote:I have to admit that I need more information from somewhere other than this forum to continue ... I keep seeing 'wet' thrown around but looking at the other facilities run by JHS nothing matches what keeps being described here, ..

Cardington was a "wet facility" and now the terminology has been changed to "harm reduction".


I believe the terminology used for housing that has no restrictions to drug use is "low barrier housing" with the goal of harm reduction.

Exactly Truthy. Word games but also trying to diffuse the stigma of certain phrases. The people who have been homeless for awhile are very street smart, they know the terminology better than we do. They actually do feel the stigma of the words and phrases we use. I think wet facility phrasing is aimed at alcohol, so low barrier better captures the drug culture.

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Re: Homeless house strikes fear

Postby Fancy » Jan 22nd, 2019, 8:57 am

Gaelene Askeland has been quoted as saying the Agassiz Road project is a harm reduction residential development and that no one uses the term "wet" facility any more.
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Re: Homeless house strikes fear

Postby the truth » Jan 22nd, 2019, 9:18 am

Fancy wrote:Gaelene Askeland has been quoted as saying the Agassiz Road project is a harm reduction residential development and that no one uses the term "wet" facility any more.


she is not a good person, never ever believe anything she says, she is as cut throat as it gets ,
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Re: Homeless house strikes fear

Postby bjsilent » Jan 22nd, 2019, 9:27 am

Cardington was a "wet facility" and now the terminology has been changed to "harm reduction".

I work in the industry and Cardington has never been a WET facility nor is it a Harm Reduction facility.Tenants residing there are not allowed to use drugs or drink inside the building.

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