Homeless house strikes fear

Re: Homeless house strikes fear

Postby 2x4eyes » Jan 30th, 2019, 12:53 pm

I didn't ask any question...

These buildings are to be 'facilities' where these individuals can access various programs/services to help some get 'sober' or 'clean'...Not all will be successful but at the very least, it is always hoped that it will keep the 'bad apples' more in check rather than just 'roaming the streets' stealing from people or even dying.

Sometimes it's not even an addiction that causes people to 'act out' or act in a manner that most in society would consider innappropriate - It can simply be a medication being used to treat a mental health issue that the person has an adverse reaction to....Other times it may be a combination of a mental health issue and an addiction which makes the addiction even more difficult to treat.

Programs/services/housing need to be geared specifically to individual needs/on a case by case basis and no building/apartment will be a 'one size fits all' remedy to curing a problem that has been here for well over 20 years...
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Re: Homeless house strikes fear

Postby Fancy » Jan 30th, 2019, 12:56 pm

Just don't pretend there won't be a possibility of issues when these facilities open and don't think for a second that those around them don't know they're there.
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Re: Homeless house strikes fear

Postby dle » Jan 30th, 2019, 1:18 pm

giggly1 wrote:I didn't ask any question...

These buildings are to be 'facilities' where these individuals can access various programs/services to help some get 'sober' or 'clean'...Not all will be successful but at the very least, it is always hoped that it will keep the 'bad apples' more in check rather than just 'roaming the streets' stealing from people or even dying.

Sometimes it's not even an addiction that causes people to 'act out' or act in a manner that most in society would consider innappropriate - It can simply be a medication being used to treat a mental health issue that the person has an adverse reaction to....Other times it may be a combination of a mental health issue and an addiction which makes the addiction even more difficult to treat.

Programs/services/housing need to be geared specifically to individual needs/on a case by case basis and no building/apartment will be a 'one size fits all' remedy to curing a problem that has been here for well over 20 years...



Sorry - I took this part of your comment as a sort of statement/question:
Individuals who have a disease like addiction can be high functioning in society and contribute greatly to our economy while others can be completely at the other end of the spectrum and steal things for a living. I don't see much difference between 'them' and 'normal people'...



I completely agree with this part of your most recent post:

Programs/services/housing need to be geared specifically to individual needs/on a case by case basis and no building/apartment will be a 'one size fits all' remedy to curing a problem that has been here for well over 20 years...
[/quote]


...and for that very reason I don't believe extremely addicted persons who are continuing (and being allowed to continue) to use drugs should be anywhere in a facility with those with non-drug mental issues, or those who are trying to go straight. Makes zero sense to me. These wet facililties being built now (I have no knowledge one way or the other of others having been in the community for years), are being built as you put it "a one size fits all" in housing. From what I understand there WILL BE recovering addicts living in the same complex as current users and they will be subject to having dealers around their home. How hard must that be for them? There needs to be a better idea - like the entrenched addicts being nowhere but rehab facilities, NOT housed with others who have different problems.

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Re: Homeless house strikes fear

Postby spooker » Feb 5th, 2019, 1:35 pm

This came to my attention today ... the residents sued the CoK in 2007 over the Cardington housing project ... and lost in the B.C. Supreme Court ...

https://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/29374/St-Paul-Lawsuit-Dismissed

Not sure that this new group threatening the same thing would fare any differently ...
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Re: Homeless house strikes fear

Postby Scrobins94 » Feb 5th, 2019, 2:01 pm

If the NIMBYs would put as much effort into helping, as opposed to obstructing, maybe these projects would already be much further ahead and our homeless and at-risk population would be less by now.

Love the entitled Kelowna attitude. :up:

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Re: Homeless house strikes fear

Postby W105 » Feb 5th, 2019, 6:49 pm

just saw on the news right now...there are ONLY 50 TREATMENT beds for the youth in BC...and we're building "wet facilities" for adults that are granted to "ease" into recovery...

now how mixed up is that ??

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Re: Homeless house strikes fear

Postby WalterWhite » Feb 5th, 2019, 7:32 pm

Scrobins94 wrote:If the NIMBYs would put as much effort into helping, as opposed to obstructing, maybe these projects would already be much further ahead and our homeless and at-risk population would be less by now.

Love the entitled Kelowna attitude. :up:


If those with nothing more than name-calling could see the forest for the trees, they might understand what those they hold in such contempt are actually saying. There's some definite entitlement going on here - but it's certainly not from the seniors about to be negatively impacted by the self-righteous entitlement of others.

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Re: Homeless house strikes fear

Postby Anonymous123 » Feb 5th, 2019, 8:13 pm

W105 wrote:just saw on the news right now...there are ONLY 50 TREATMENT beds for the youth in BC...and we're building "wet facilities" for adults that are granted to "ease" into recovery...

now how mixed up is that ??


Yeah that is mixed up. There won’t be any beds for them until they get on the streets!
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Re: Homeless house strikes fear

Postby W105 » Feb 5th, 2019, 8:35 pm

and some of us are called "NIMBY'S" or heartless asking why we don't start at the beginning instead of the end...

a 52 room supportive housing DRY facility would probably help a lot of kids getting out of treatment and learning life skills..

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Re: Homeless house strikes fear

Postby WalterWhite » Feb 5th, 2019, 8:41 pm

W105 wrote:and some of us are called "NIMBY'S" or heartless asking why we don't start at the beginning instead of the end...

a 52 room supportive housing DRY facility would probably help a lot of kids getting out of treatment and learning life skills..


I’m seriously beginning to believe groups like the JHS won’t support those initiatives because it’s counterproductive to their business model. Curing that element of society creates a direct loss in clients - and resulting revenue from the revolving door of grant money.

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Re: Homeless house strikes fear

Postby Loki2u » Feb 5th, 2019, 10:19 pm

WalterWhite wrote:
I’m seriously beginning to believe groups like the JHS won’t support those initiatives because it’s counterproductive to their business model. Curing that element of society creates a direct loss in clients - and resulting revenue from the revolving door of grant money.


It's an unfortunate but very real fact that these crises provide jobs to many people, but its no different than many other jobs out there such as doctors, dentists, barbers etc. Where there is a need for a service, there is a need for somebody to provide it.

Social work tends to attract employees who are keen to help others. The very large majority would be thrilled (myself included) to see an end to homelessness and drug addiction but since that is highly unlikely, there will always be a need for people to help.

If your scenario came to fruition, that grant money would just be placed elsewhere where it would be most useful. Perhaps areas such as more resources for families and parents to educate and assist with things like childhood trauma or parenting skills.

Quick scenario: A couple of 'junkies' end up having a kid which eventually gets put into the foster system as they are unable to properly take care of it. Who knows what sort of hell this child has been through over the course of his/her childhood in the system. Fast forward to when this kid is in his late teens early twenties.....who will be the one we want to lock up for stealing your bike to support their habit? The same kid 15 years later who, according to all the statistics will become an addict themselves for simply having been abused in the first place.

The above is where I'd like to see more funding go eventually to help prevent such scenarios.....but there is only so much money available. Priorities I suppose, but I'm optimistic we can get there eventually.

FWIW, I am also very much against having facilities that combine residents trying to overcome their addictions intermingling with those shooting up in the basement of the same facility. It makes no sense to me. Even though my career is under the umbrella of social work, I specialize in addiction treatment and work primarily with those wanting help in improving their situation.
I fully understand the housing first model, agree with most of it, but there are so many layers to the homeless situation and opioid epidemic that it becomes difficult to sort through the layers. I share many of the same sentiments of anger, confusion and frustration expressed here, although I try not to think or act out of emotion on the subject. I am not even close to a bleeding heart, but I do know that people can change, and deserve that opportunity, however short lived it may be.
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Re: Homeless house strikes fear

Postby WalterWhite » Feb 5th, 2019, 10:24 pm

I'v made numerous comments in the past on this Loki2u indicating my understanding and agreement that yes, housing is a necessity - and I think we agree that wet facilities are simply not the best choice for that matter. My comment above is simply that as has been highlighted by this recent news report, there is a massive shortage of treatment for youth - those are the future homeless that groups like JHS have as clients, and are hard pressed to do anything to not have those clients. As was pointed out by the previous poster - where's the funding for treatment to stop this issue at it's source?
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Re: Homeless house strikes fear

Postby the truth » Feb 5th, 2019, 10:28 pm

WalterWhite wrote:
W105 wrote:and some of us are called "NIMBY'S" or heartless asking why we don't start at the beginning instead of the end...

a 52 room supportive housing DRY facility would probably help a lot of kids getting out of treatment and learning life skills..


I’m seriously beginning to believe groups like the JHS won’t support those initiatives because it’s counterproductive to their business model. Curing that element of society creates a direct loss in clients - and resulting revenue from the revolving door of grant money.


now your getting it :smt045 :up: now your just starting to get why i have never liked jhs they are all about the money now not about helping people
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Re: Homeless house strikes fear

Postby Loki2u » Feb 5th, 2019, 10:35 pm

WalterWhite wrote:I'v made numerous comments in the past on this Loki2u indicating my understanding and agreement that yes, housing is a necessity - and I think we agree that wet facilities are simply not the best choice for that matter. My comment above is simply that as has been highlighted by this recent news report, there is a massive shortage of treatment for youth - those are the future homeless that groups like JHS have as clients, and are hard pressed to do anything to not have those clients. As was pointed out by the previous poster - where's the funding for treatment to stop this issue at it's source?


I wish I had an answer to where the funding is for treatment. I agree it is desperately needed!

Treatment options are a double edged sword. It costs money to run treatment centers. There is (very) limited funding from the government to assist in running these centers. Most of these treatment options would fall under non-profit status and can help many addicts in the trenches, but only so many of these centers can open because of lack of funding.

The other side are privately run (for profit) centers which are extremely expensive (10k+/month) and can't accommodate the vast majority of addicts (lack of finances) but are able to stay afloat business wise. They certainly help those who can afford it, but at what cost to everyone else?

I wonder what would happen if it weren't ridiculously expensive to attend treatment or to not have a 2 month waiting list to get in to an affordable center?
Hmmmm.......

*edit to include quote
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Re: Homeless house strikes fear

Postby WalterWhite » Feb 5th, 2019, 10:59 pm

Loki2u wrote:
WalterWhite wrote:I'v made numerous comments in the past on this Loki2u indicating my understanding and agreement that yes, housing is a necessity - and I think we agree that wet facilities are simply not the best choice for that matter. My comment above is simply that as has been highlighted by this recent news report, there is a massive shortage of treatment for youth - those are the future homeless that groups like JHS have as clients, and are hard pressed to do anything to not have those clients. As was pointed out by the previous poster - where's the funding for treatment to stop this issue at it's source?


I wish I had an answer to where the funding is for treatment. I agree it is desperately needed!

Treatment options are a double edged sword. It costs money to run treatment centers. There is (very) limited funding from the government to assist in running these centers. Most of these treatment options would fall under non-profit status and can help many addicts in the trenches, but only so many of these centers can open because of lack of funding.

The other side are privately run (for profit) centers which are extremely expensive (10k+/month) and can't accommodate the vast majority of addicts (lack of finances) but are able to stay afloat business wise. They certainly help those who can afford it, but at what cost to everyone else?

I wonder what would happen if it weren't ridiculously expensive to attend treatment or to not have a 2 month waiting list to get in to an affordable center?
Hmmmm.......

*edit to include quote


That's been my whole point from the beginning of these discussions Loki2u, for which I've received my fair share of hate mail. Everyone's jumping on the "housing first" strategy - without dealing with the root cause of what created the homeless situations in the first place - the addictions. Sure, everyone needs a roof - I've stated I'm in agreement with that numerous times. What I don't agree with and have stated ad-infinitum is housing with wet conditions. It simply does nothing to solve the root cause of the issue, and groups like JHS are profiting heavily with these very lucrative contract arrangements with BC Housing on the taxpayers dime popping up province-wide in numerous locations.

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