One million stolen

Re: One million stolen

Postby dirtybiker » Jan 13th, 2019, 6:19 pm

^^^^^^^They are funded by us, and subsidiaries of us, even a couple
splinter organizations of us.
"Don't 'p' down my neck then tell me it's raining!"

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Re: One million stolen

Postby Ken7 » Jan 13th, 2019, 7:47 pm

I don't have a accounting degree or a certificate in business however, any time there is money under a Association, a Charitable organization etc there needs to be some precautions.

Annual out of office examination or books would have caught this theft the first year it occurred. This is just so irresponsible by the board that they all should be held as party to the offence.

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Re: One million stolen

Postby onestop67 » Jan 13th, 2019, 8:09 pm

Veovis wrote:400,000 over 13 years is 30K a year. Not a big wage and certainly reasonable.

Stealing a *bleep* ton on top however is terrible. I've done work for people and companies that fight tooth and nail the controls I want to bring in, but it is those controls that prevent these things. Never give the bookkeeper/accountant bank access, PERIOD....it's a licence to steal and too few are good people and won't do it.

Make controls and use them people, the only bookkeepers mad about it are the ones mad they can't skim anymore, the others approve of proper procedure.


I don't disagree that 400,00 over 13 years is not a big wage, but remember the self admitted embezzler says that was paid to her husband and two children. It is just an excuse.

I have bank cards and internet access to a lot of my business clients accounts. But that access is restricted to "view only". I can log in to the accounts and download transactions, but I have NO access to the funds in those accounts.
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Re: One million stolen

Postby Giardinera1 » Jan 14th, 2019, 3:44 pm

It's all government, therefore public money, but different Agencies play different roles when it comes to funding management.

This is not the first time CLBC has been a victim of fraud: https://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/1 ... -shut-down

Makes me think oversight measures are lacking at CLBC.

The problem is, the further you go from the source, the easier it is to scam. The Ministry tends to ask for quarterly or annua; reports. These are not super detailed, it would be the interim agency (CLBS I think) who should be expected to match receipts to payments, just as Interior health would be the intermediary to closely check reports before they get finalized and sent to the Ministry. These smaller services lack sophistication as well as funding needed to put enough staff in place to do checks.

A book keeper could easily code "other expenses" as program time if there's no one who is matching expense receipts and program/employee hours to the dollars. Internally they should have a second person review this (when your staff is small, the Executive Director absolutely should perform this review the same way he would if it was his personal money). But CLBS and the Ministry should also be catching this. Perhaps they were understaffed/behind and it was them who DID catch it eventually.

I have strong doubts the CEO of this organization was in the dark for so long though - perhaps everyone has their hands in the jar and that's why this wasn't reported earlier.

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Re: One million stolen

Postby TerriJ73 » Jan 26th, 2019, 10:11 am

Giardinera1 wrote:It's all government, therefore public money, but different Agencies play different roles when it comes to funding management.

This is not the first time CLBC has been a victim of fraud: https://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/1 ... -shut-down

Makes me think oversight measures are lacking at CLBC.

The problem is, the further you go from the source, the easier it is to scam. The Ministry tends to ask for quarterly or annua; reports. These are not super detailed, it would be the interim agency (CLBS I think) who should be expected to match receipts to payments, just as Interior health would be the intermediary to closely check reports before they get finalized and sent to the Ministry. These smaller services lack sophistication as well as funding needed to put enough staff in place to do checks.

A book keeper could easily code "other expenses" as program time if there's no one who is matching expense receipts and program/employee hours to the dollars. Internally they should have a second person review this (when your staff is small, the Executive Director absolutely should perform this review the same way he would if it was his personal money). But CLBS and the Ministry should also be catching this. Perhaps they were understaffed/behind and it was them who DID catch it eventually.

I have strong doubts the CEO of this organization was in the dark for so long though - perhaps everyone has their hands in the jar and that's why this wasn't reported earlier.


This is sad.
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Re: One million stolen

Postby TerriJ73 » Jan 26th, 2019, 1:25 pm

dirtybiker wrote:^^^^^^^They are funded by us, and subsidiaries of us, even a couple
splinter organizations of us.


Sad stuff all around
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Re: One million stolen

Postby LivinginKelowna » Jan 28th, 2019, 3:23 pm

When all of the thefts come to light, it sure makes a person wonder how much is not caught, 50%? 60%? 95%?

we need an overhaul of government spending so we can have our hard earned dollars back in our pockets
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Re: One million stolen

Postby TerriJ73 » Jan 28th, 2019, 4:58 pm

LivinginKelowna wrote:When all of the thefts come to light, it sure makes a person wonder how much is not caught, 50%? 60%? 95%?

we need an overhaul of government spending so we can have our hard earned dollars back in our pockets


Sad stuff
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Re: One million stolen

Postby LivinginKelowna » Jan 28th, 2019, 5:12 pm

TerriJ73 wrote:
LivinginKelowna wrote:When all of the thefts come to light, it sure makes a person wonder how much is not caught, 50%? 60%? 95%?

we need an overhaul of government spending so we can have our hard earned dollars back in our pockets


Do you see this as the community agency at fault or governments fault?


I think there has to be fault shouldered by both.

The government has a responsibility to ensure that funds are not misappropriated as they are supposed to be working for the citizens of the country.

The agency has a responsibility to ensure that all funds directed to them is utilized for it's intended purpose.

Ultimately though, it is the governments responsibility as they are the ones taking our taxes and spreading them for the (greater) good of society, supposedly
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Re: One million stolen

Postby TerriJ73 » Jan 29th, 2019, 7:05 pm

this is going to be quite the legal process to watch
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Re: One million stolen

Postby 2manyfords » Jan 29th, 2019, 7:18 pm

TerriJ73 wrote:Why isn’t the ministry suing the alleged thief?


Most likely because the allegations are before the courts. (or crown prosecutor)

Once charges/convictions prevail, then comes the restitution side.

I'm certainly no lawyer, but that would be my take. Might even lead to a civil suit.

I imagine the CRA will have fun with this....

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Re: One million stolen

Postby TerriJ73 » Jan 30th, 2019, 1:38 pm

Sad stuff
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Re: One million stolen

Postby KevinJP » Jan 30th, 2019, 8:18 pm

2manyfords wrote:
TerriJ73 wrote:Why isn’t the ministry suing the alleged thief?


Most likely because the allegations are before the courts. (or crown prosecutor)

Once charges/convictions prevail, then comes the restitution side.

I'm certainly no lawyer, but that would be my take. Might even lead to a civil suit.

I imagine the CRA will have fun with this....


The courts may be easy, but not the CRA!!

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Re: One million stolen

Postby TerriJ73 » Jan 30th, 2019, 10:40 pm

CRA is always involved
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Re: One million stolen

Postby 2manyfords » Jan 31st, 2019, 9:35 am

TerriJ73 wrote:Why would the CRA go after the ministry



I wasn't referring to CRA going after the ministry.

It is alleged the Earl's had real estate dealings, multiple "toy" purchases, 5th wheel trailers, etc....all while the alleged misappropriation occured, all while running a metal fab shop from a mobile park. Sounds pretty suspect to me. :smt045

Some questions will need to be answered, to be sure...
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