Buses to control lights

Re: Buses to control lights

Postby Andy S » Jan 29th, 2019, 8:31 pm

If someone in the traffic bolus here in town ~felt~ a bad bus driver cut them off boo f hoo. I have ridden transit in Ktown for 15 years now, usually 6 days a week, 5 buses to get to work and back daily. People (many), don't have a clue about yielding to a bus signalling to leave it's stop. In 15 years I have never had an accident in a bus. They are professionals who are not expected to have a cordial personality, but many do.
The city planners of long ago did not build a road infrastructure to handle the 21st century. And now look what Ktown is dealing with.
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Re: Buses to control lights

Postby spooker » Jan 29th, 2019, 8:42 pm

Urban Cowboy wrote:
No glare excuse as it was overcast, and stop was Hwy97 and Edwards Road.


The only stop in that area is on the #8 route in front of the Husky station heading west on Edwards ... the bus would be moving pretty slow as it would have not had time to accelerate after turning onto Edwards and would be approaching the turn onto 97N ...
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Re: Buses to control lights

Postby OKkayak » Jan 29th, 2019, 8:46 pm

Urban Cowboy wrote:You might well be singing a different tune too, if you'd had your vehicle damaged by transit driver incompetence a few times.

If its happened to you a few times, no offence but I'd be thinking there's more to your story.
Urban Cowboy wrote:HOV lane is pretty much for buses, or at least that was part of the explanation for it being imposed on us, despite traffic having flowed better before its arrival.

HOV lane is actually for buses, cars with 2 or more occupants, EV vehicles, motorcycles and all the cars turning in and out of crossroads and parking lots. Thats quite a bit more traffic than just buses. Not to mention, all those cars trying to get in and out of parking lots, crossroads, block the lane waiting for pedestrians to cross the lane keeps traffic even slower.

Urban Cowboy wrote:or just think yourself funny,

Actually, I know that I'm a total hoot :biggrin:
Urban Cowboy wrote:given that if there's a route, that according to MAPearce hardly ever makes its connection, then common sense would dictate that the issue is in fact bad planning. Given that any route needs to allow for various factors, such as inclement weather, or other unforeseen circumstances. A route that consistently doesn't work as planned, suggests a need for a new plan.

So, if its common sense, then lay one out for us. I'll get you started. Whats an optimal route and schedule for a bus to go from UBC to Queensway?
Urban Cowboy wrote:Until such time as the transit service gets things fine tuned, to where it functions for those who need to get to work on time, all the traffic light manipulation in the world isn't going to increase ridership.

If it helps buses keep closer to their schedules then it very well may be more attractive to more and more riders.
Urban Cowboy wrote:To me it seems that this fine tuning process is taking far far too long.

I agree, things like this should have been put in place years ago.

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Re: Buses to control lights

Postby kumazatheef » Jan 29th, 2019, 8:55 pm

OKkayak wrote:I agree, things like this should have been put in place years ago.

While I agree with all your other points, gonna mention that it has been in place for a few years ... BC Transit published report in May 2012 when it was recently introduced.
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Re: Buses to control lights

Postby GordonH » Jan 29th, 2019, 8:58 pm

HOV lane has a huge amount of 1 occupant vehicles in it all day long, most likely due to no enforcement.

Added: I guess Kelowna needs it's own transit police.
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Re: Buses to control lights

Postby Grandan » Jan 29th, 2019, 9:24 pm

Andy S wrote:If someone in the traffic bolus here in town ~felt~ a bad bus driver cut them off boo f hoo. I have ridden transit in Ktown for 15 years now, usually 6 days a week, 5 buses to get to work and back daily. People (many), don't have a clue about yielding to a bus signalling to leave it's stop. In 15 years I have never had an accident in a bus. They are professionals who are not expected to have a cordial personality, but many do.
The city planners of long ago did not build a road infrastructure to handle the 21st century. And now look what Ktown is dealing with.

Many of the roads in Kelowna are 100 years old. North Glenmore was subdivided in 1912 into 8 - 10 acre lots with country roads connecting them. Except for a few pocket subdivisions broken into 1/4 acre lots scattered throughout the area and particularly Valley and Sexsmith where lots date from the 60's and 70's, Brenda Road and so on. Major Development was not started until the 90's when the ALR block appeal went through. From the start a major road was planned through the area, Glenmore Drive.
The Agriculture Land Reserve is severely restrictive in permitting roads to be pushed through orchards so as a consequence there is a shortage of road network for this very reason. The roads that are in place are as a consequence overcrowded. We are stuck with where they are placed because they are farm roads.
The planners have worked very hard to get new roads where they can, for example John Hindle Drive which has provided a relief for many commuters.
You cannot plan for summer visitors because at times it is going to be gridlock because some idiot rear ends someone or T-Bones them.
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Re: Buses to control lights

Postby WalterWhite » Jan 29th, 2019, 10:16 pm

GordonH wrote:HOV lane has a huge amount of 1 occupant vehicles in it all day long, most likely due to no enforcement.

Added: I guess Kelowna needs it's own transit police.


No, Kelowna just needs to realize an HOV lane in that location was the most asinine concept transportation planners hatched in the last century.
ETA: note that 1 occupant vehicles need to make right turns also.
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Re: Buses to control lights

Postby kumazatheef » Jan 29th, 2019, 10:24 pm

WalterWhite wrote:
GordonH wrote:HOV lane has a huge amount of 1 occupant vehicles in it all day long, most likely due to no enforcement.

Added: I guess Kelowna needs it's own transit police.


No, Kelowna just needs to realize an HOV lane in that location was the most asinine concept transportation planners hatched in the last century.


So .... the buses that are stopping along the stretch of Hwy 97 ... they wouldn't be driving in the HOV lane ... so how would that work?
So now you'd have an HOV lane on inside lane and slow-moving-often-stopping buses on the outside lane.
There are 2 types of HOV lanes : for Freeway, the common method for high speed roads .. and "Urban Corridor" for lower speed roads. Guess which one Hwy 97 is through Kelowna.
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Re: Buses to control lights

Postby WalterWhite » Jan 29th, 2019, 10:36 pm

WalterWhite wrote:
GordonH wrote:HOV lane has a huge amount of 1 occupant vehicles in it all day long, most likely due to no enforcement.

Added: I guess Kelowna needs it's own transit police.


No, Kelowna just needs to realize an HOV lane in that location was the most asinine concept transportation planners hatched in the last century.


kumazatheef wrote:So .... the buses that are stopping along the stretch of Hwy 97 ... they wouldn't be driving in the HOV lane ... so how would that work?
So now you'd have an HOV lane on inside lane and slow-moving-often-stopping buses on the outside lane.
There are 2 types of HOV lanes : for Freeway, the common method for high speed roads .. and "Urban Corridor" for lower speed roads. Guess which one Hwy 97 is through Kelowna.


Exactly - an HOV lane is pointless in any location along this corridor.
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Re: Buses to control lights

Postby OKkayak » Jan 29th, 2019, 11:48 pm

GordonH wrote:HOV lane has a huge amount of 1 occupant vehicles in it all day long, most likely due to no enforcement

More like by design.

kumazatheef wrote:While I agree with all your other points, gonna mention that it has been in place for a few years ... BC Transit published report in May 2012 when it was recently introduced.

Meant earlier than that. The whole transportation infrastructure in Kelowna has had zero vision for decades and now they're hooped.
kumazatheef wrote:So .... the buses that are stopping along the stretch of Hwy 97 ... they wouldn't be driving in the HOV lane ... so how would that work?

A possibility would be to make it bus only for certain hours per day, say 7am-10am and 3pm-6pm or something like that. Vehicles can still make right turns, but if they go past an intersection, it would be ticketable.

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Re: Buses to control lights

Postby GordonH » Jan 30th, 2019, 12:51 am

GordonH wrote:HOV lane has a huge amount of 1 occupant vehicles in it all day long, most likely due to no enforcement.

Added: I guess Kelowna needs it's own transit police.

WalterWhite wrote:No, Kelowna just needs to realize an HOV lane in that location was the most asinine concept transportation planners hatched in the last century.
ETA: note that 1 occupant vehicles need to make right turns also.


HOV lane is totally incorrect name for the lane.
It should have been been named Transit Bus express lane, you are totally right HOV lane are inside lane not more commonly used lane for right turns.
That whole rule:
Driver can use this lane must turn right before going thru a light.... that is asinine rule. Reason any business on the corner thru the light would lose customers i.e the shell station at Harvey & Richter west bound traffic or petro-can station same intersection east bound traffic.
I suspect this is the reason the police would not be enforcing the rules on the lane... due to this major flaw.
So WalterWhite we agree this lane is an asinine idea.
When you have to start compromising yourself and your morals for the people around you, it’s probably time to change the people around you.

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Re: Buses to control lights

Postby dsldriver » Jan 30th, 2019, 3:56 am

Say what you want about this. It's a good thing. Buses will be able to hold a schedule better. They are set to a different level than emergency vehicles though. All this will do is hold a light green for a bus approaching within range, or shorten the red light to keep the bus moving. Advantage?? Drivers won't have to slam on the brakes when a light changes at the last minute. There will be a lot less people grabbing for poles or getting knocked off balance and possibly falling. Less injury claims will offset the cost of installing them.
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Re: Buses to control lights

Postby kumazatheef » Jan 30th, 2019, 11:54 am

GordonH wrote:So WalterWhite we agree this lane is an asinine idea.

Whether you agree with it or not does not invalidate the fact it's a law.
I may disagree with some laws preventing me from hitting stupid people, but it doesn't negate the fact it would still be assault.

And so we find ourselves in a circular discussion : people don't like TSP, but traffic is bad, but HOV lanes suck, but buses are in the way, but don't want the buses to move faster.

TSP is a good thing.

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Re: Buses to control lights

Postby WalterWhite » Jan 30th, 2019, 12:24 pm

kumazatheef wrote:
GordonH wrote:So WalterWhite we agree this lane is an asinine idea.

Whether you agree with it or not does not invalidate the fact it's a law.
I may disagree with some laws preventing me from hitting stupid people, but it doesn't negate the fact it would still be assault.

And so we find ourselves in a circular discussion : people don't like TSP, but traffic is bad, but HOV lanes suck, but buses are in the way, but don't want the buses to move faster.

TSP is a good thing.


Just to clarify, I have no issue with TSP and think its a good idea. As far as buses in the right lane, I have no issues either - they're an essential service and frankly - where else could they be expected to drive? I'm not suggesting an HOV lane for any of the other lanes either. My point was designating any of the existing lanes an HOV lane is a moot point. Other than costing a lot of money on signage it's had practically zero effect on driving habits because of the numerous intersections. I have yet to hear of any tickets being issued for HOV lane infractions here - anyone else?
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Re: Buses to control lights

Postby GordonH » Jan 30th, 2019, 12:29 pm

WalterWhite wrote:I have yet to hear of any tickets being issued for HOV lane infractions here - anyone else?


I haven't heard of 1 ticket issued, chances are the police don't even look for that violation.
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