Everyone has a right to your money.

[dle]

When is this fabled time that existed when barely anyone smoked, and drink and drugs didn’t exist?

First off, you can’t put all three in the same basket. Secondly, it is true that drugs addiction was by far less of a problem a mere decade ago. It is also true that drugs back then were much less potent. It is also true that this is a direct result of years of liberals social engineering. And finally, as evident, the same liberal BS-ers now want landlords to fix social problems of their own creation.

Was drug use less of a problem 10, 30, 50 years ago? On a smaller scale it was still there, but was maybe less visible to the rest of us and I think there was a definite reason it was less prevalent many years ago. It was there in the 30's, 40's, 50's and so on - it just wasn't front and centre news day in and day out. Don't forget a lot of the illegal drugs today WERE legal back then - you could buy heroin off the drugstore shelf. If you were an addict years ago, you lived or you died when you did drugs - you made the choice - spin the bottle or not - which in my mind is how it should be. No one was digging into everyone else's pockets to save your butt. You had to make your own choice and live with it. That very choice and knowledge of the potential disaster that could follow STOPPED a lot of people from taking that first "experimental" joy ride and I believe it did right up until the first transmitted disease from shared needle use. That's when the medical profession jumped on the "make it safe for junkies to use" bandwagon and it has spiralled into "everyone is responsible for the addicts" campaign. A person back in they day knew there was no safety net if their stupid actions led to a lifetime of horror so maybe a greater majority of them chose the better fork in the road and said "NO". Nowadays, no one is held accountable for their actions so some tend to make really silly choices instead of using their brains. There were still lots of drug addicts around far longer than 10 years ago - it just wasn't the "cause de jour" to intervene to enable them to do it "safely" and the rest of us weren't robbed blind to allow them to do it and stay safe while doing it.

Consequence for actions needs to be brought back to the forefront on all levels - including enforcement of laws - or this disaster is going to be unstoppable.

[the truth]

sorry loki2u you might be book smart but not life smart

Damn.

Well............I guess that's better than being neither!

indeed.............

[Mike Br.]

Was drug use less of a problem 10, 30, 50 years ago? I have to disagree on that for sure. It was there in the 30's, 40's, 50's and so on - it just wasn't front and centre news day in and day out. Don't forget a lot of the illegal drugs today WERE legal back then - you could buy heroin off the drugstore shelf.

You could never buy heroin off the shelf. Also, back then, heroin was pretty much the end of the rope, for most. Nowadays, they use heroin as a withdrawal drug from incredibly more potent substances (i.e. fentanyl, carfentanyl, ..).

That very choice and knowledge of the potential disaster that could follow STOPPED a lot of people from taking that first "experimental" joy ride and I believe it did right up until the first transmitted disease from shared needle use. That's when the medical profession jumped on the "make it safe for junkies to use" bandwagon and it has spiralled into "everyone is responsible for the addicts" campaign. A person back in they day knew there was no safety net if their stupid actions led to a lifetime of horror so maybe a greater majority of them chose the better fork in the road and said "NO". Nowadays, no one is held accountable for their actions so some tend to make really silly choices instead of using their brains.

That, I could agree with. There are no longer sufficiant deterrents to keep substance abuse down to tolerable levels. Stigmatization of addicts was a good one. Nowadays, drugs are almost popularized, and addicts victimized.

Consequence for actions needs to be brought back to the forefront on all levels - including enforcement of laws - or this disaster is going to be unstoppable.

The only way out of this crisis is forced (involuntary) rehabilitation, together with hard labor. On a massive scale. Build rehab/work camps away from urban areas, and only those who come clean and demostrate solid work ethics could be reintegrated into the society.

But, the real question here is, why should landlords be made responsible for fixing societal problems?

[Brushy Bill]

The forced rehab will never fly
But I do agree with isolated facilities where those interested in getting better can walk in, get a room, and meals, and sign up to a contract for a long term. Lets help those that choose to help themselves. Maybe the facility can be a moneymaker, tie it in with a greenhouse or orchard or ranch.

Those that prefer the streets and the lifestyle are making a life choice, leave them be.

[Samstanford]

sorry loki2u you might be book smart but not life smart

Damn.

Well............I guess that's better than being neither!

you should know

[WalterWhite]

Let's drop the schoolyard taunts and just discuss the topic

[dle]

The forced rehab will never fly
But I do agree with isolated facilities where those interested in getting better can walk in, get a room, and meals, and sign up to a contract for a long term. Lets help those that choose to help themselves. Maybe the facility can be a moneymaker, tie it in with a greenhouse or orchard or ranch.

Those that prefer the streets and the lifestyle are making a life choice, leave them be.

I am a HUGE propenent of forced rehab - especially in the case of someone going to Court on a drugs related crime ie stealing to pay for a habit and using that in Court as a defence.

I am not in favour of hard labour as in "chain gangs" etc that some would have them doing. It serves no purpose. I want to see them envision and experience and have hope for a different lifestyle which would give them a reason to do the day to day necessary to never use again.

My vision of the forced rehab would be along the lines of 1 year on a ranch type locale, rehab counselling and cessation drugs ONLY, administered by staff, for a short period of time on admission AFTER detox then gradual weaning off entirely. ZERO TOLERANCE drug use after that. Break the rules you are gone. No contact with family or friends until 6 months in. Have to learn to make their own decisions with expert counselling, not enablers, which loved ones tend to be. Friends from the outside might be users who would thwart progress. There would be set routine, up early to do farm chores, tend the animals, farming etc. There would be schooling for those who never achieved grade 12. There would be opportunity to attend technical schooling for those who did, supervised. No one would be allowed any "freedom" from supervision off the ranch for a year. There would be regular exercise classes - like PE in school. There would be recreation time - softball, basketball, etc. There would be mentors & counsellors. There would be nurture/nature activities including raising an animal and being responsible for its care.

[Mike Br.]

*removed*

[vinnied]

Simple solution. STOP giving them Narcan everytime they OD. Give it ONE TIME, that's it. You carry on being stupid your gone, no second chance, no third chance, and on and on. Otherwise, it will never end. Even forced rehab is not going to work. In order to recover you have to want to recover. Who wants that when everything is handed to you on a silver platter INCLUDING your own life.
They brought in this stupid free needle program to stop these idiots from sharing and spreading disease. It was a huge burden on our health care system. Well looky here, they created an even bigger burden now.
Im sorry, but I say stop playing god. these people make their beds let them die in it. Only way this epidemic will ever resolve itself.

[pieinthei]

Simple solution. STOP giving them Narcan everytime they OD. Give it ONE TIME, that's it. You carry on being stupid your gone, no second chance, no third chance, and on and on. Otherwise, it will never end. Even forced rehab is not going to work. In order to recover you have to want to recover. Who wants that when everything is handed to you on a silver platter INCLUDING your own life.
They brought in this stupid free needle program to stop these idiots from sharing and spreading disease. It was a huge burden on our health care system. Well looky here, they created an even bigger burden now.
Im sorry, but I say stop playing god. these people make their beds let them die in it. Only way this epidemic will ever resolve itself.

best quote !
agreed!

[dle]

I am not in favour of hard labour as in "chain gangs" etc that some would have them doing. It serves no purpose.

*removed*

Once past detox, would the type of mind/body preoccupation of farm labour etc and routines that must be adhered to be sufficient? Farming/ranching is very physical, long tiring days, but with a sense of achievement and purpose at the end of it. I think if one can feel they actually contributed to something good and wholesome, even if forced to do it at first, it can give someone a reason to do it again the next day.

[Mike Br.]

... but with a sense of achievement and purpose at the end of it.

Again, ... they are incapable of grasping the concept of it. The only thing that could possibly get to their minds is FEAR. The fear of perishing. And, they have to face it, for real.

[dle]

... but with a sense of achievement and purpose at the end of it.

Again, ... they are incapable of grasping the concept of it. The only thing that could possibly get to their minds is FEAR. The fear of perishing. And, they have to face it, for real.

I'm not sure fear is even a worry to them at all frankly; they all know they have a better than good chance of dying with every hit they take yet they don't hesitate to do it. They can only (possibly) get the thought process back again by being off drugs for a period of time so that other thoughts can enter. Some are so far gone they never will. Once they have been off drugs in detox and passed the sickness stage, however no where near the "in recovery" stage, I think it may be it's at that point that the fear that they WERE EXTREMELY LUCKY NOT TO HAVE DIED returns and sinks in making it possible to introduce rehab, forced or not, as a picture of a real chance for a future.

[Samstanford]

[quote="dle"][quote="Mike Br."][quote="dle"]... but with a sense of achievement and purpose at the end of it.[/quote]

Again, ... they are incapable of grasping the concept of it. The only thing that could possibly get to their minds is FEAR. The fear of perishing. And, they have to face it, for real.[/quote]



I'm not sure fear is even a worry to them at all frankly; they all know they have a better than good chance of dying with every hit they take yet they don't hesitate to do it. They can only (possibly) get the thought process back again by being off drugs for a period of time so that other thoughts can enter. Some are so far gone they never will. Once they have been off drugs in detox and passed the sickness stage, however no where near the "in recovery" stage, I think it may be it's at that point that the fear that they WERE EXTREMELY LUCKY NOT TO HAVE DIED returns and sinks in making it possible to introduce rehab, forced or not, as a picture of a real chance for a future.[/quote]

Why am I Forced to care about people that don't care about themselves?
Let their family or volunteers take care of it.

Stop wasting my tax dollars on saving them.
If YOU overdose once, then YOU automatically give consent to YOUR own DNR Order the next time.

WHY MUST I PAY TO KEEP THEM ALIVE?
LET THEM DIE! They did it to themselves.
All Drugs should be totally legal.
If you want to die then have at it.


Darwin got us 'here' and he will get us 'there'.
whether we like it or not.

Castle law and no narcan would clean the whole problem up in short order.

[Gilchy]

I do not understand the philosophy that believes "my stuff is worth more than your life".