Old McD's

Re: Old McD's

Postby SteveWillDoIt » Jan 12th, 2021, 5:16 pm

Omnitheo wrote:
The owners kept the restaurant on life support until the road changes were made specifically so they could blame their dying business on the city.



That is a really bold statement.
I hope you have proof to justify such a statement because you are not stating this an opinion, you are stating it as a fact.
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Re: Old McD's

Postby SteveWillDoIt » Jan 12th, 2021, 5:21 pm

Fancy wrote:The riff raff causing problems at that location (Tim Horton's included) was terrible. Got tired of fighting through them to place an order.


I don’t have a problem with the riff raff ( as you said this) as much as I do entitled spoiled Kelownians that walk around with their noses in the air.
Those darn riff raffers are in between me and my Sausage McMuffin, so help me God I have to wait another 2 minutes.
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Re: Old McD's

Postby Fancy » Jan 12th, 2021, 5:33 pm

SteveWillDoIt wrote:Those darn riff raffers are in between me and my Sausage McMuffin, so help me God I have to wait another 2 minutes.


You aren't understanding the terminology. Hasn't anything to do with waiting for an order but being accosted by those on drugs and begging for money. Wasn't fun or pretty and could be downright frightening.
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Re: Old McD's

Postby TylerM4 » Jan 12th, 2021, 5:35 pm

cv23 wrote:Most of that Mcd's locations business was drive thru as it was the first fast food location after crossing the bridge and facilitated by easy access off the hwy right to the drive thru window. Once the plans to realign Water St were announced by the COK in 2003 the writing was on the wall for all the businesses occupying that stretch of Hwy 97. McD's just had the name and corporate finances to hold out longer than the other businesses.
Sure the walk in business suffered from issues but I lived around the corner and can tell you that drive thru was well used right up until access was restricted.

The COK was forced to make changes to the approach of the bridge by the MOH in order for the new bridge to proceed. While the exact details of those changes were the COK's the MOH had to approve the changes they demanded before construction would start. The MOH should have accepted some responsibility in all this not just left the COK holding the entire bag.


Most of any McD's business is drive-thru. Over 50% of sales go through the drive thru in a normal restaurant nowadays. Have you noticed that new restaurants nowadays have less seating space but more drive thru lanes than ever before? McD's won't even open a restaurant without a DT anymore unless it's a special circumstance (eg airport/mall, huge casino in Vegas, etc.)

Honestly, the main reason for closing was to sue COK. COK was offering them almost nothing for compensation for the changes being made. The store likely would have remained profitable after the change, but not as profitable. It's much harder to sue in that scenario, prove that it was the road changes that caused the dip in profit, etc. Makes for a much better lawsuit if you simply close your doors and say you can't do business anymore. It worked. Those businesses did settle for much more money than COK offered initially.

There was another reason tho - they wanted an excuse to do something with that store anyway. It was intended to be a flagship store for the entire Okanagan and was when it opened. However, over time the location was plagued by increasing access/traffic problems, became surrounded by other "ugly and neglected" properties, and most challengingly - had a major problem with vagrants, junkies, and transients. All of that was outside of their control to fix and this was a good opportunity to blame the closure on others while making them foot some/most of the bill.

If you can't already tell, I had a bit of an inside scoop as this all unfolded ;)
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Re: Old McD's

Postby SteveWillDoIt » Jan 12th, 2021, 5:57 pm

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Re: Old McD's

Postby Fancy » Jan 12th, 2021, 6:36 pm

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Re: Old McD's

Postby cv23 » Jan 12th, 2021, 7:23 pm

I had a bit of an inside scoop as this all unfolded ;)


This supposed inside scoop would contradict the outcome of the court action as McD's obviously proved enough financial hardship for the City to buy the property for over $2mil rather than letting a judge rule on the matter. If the location was indeed still making a profit after the re-alignment the case would have been a slam dunk for the city.
Also any decline in business due to undesirables congregating in the area was also the City's obligation to control/address so how ever you want to slice it the City was responsible for the business closing.

The old McD's property if combined with the old portion of Water St and the City owned orphan triangle property adjacent the CMHA building is quite sizable so development would not be as difficult as some think. All are City owned so assembly to one would be a snap. It would have made an excellent location for a Tourism Center but that boat has already sailed thanks to City hall.
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Re: Old McD's

Postby SteveWillDoIt » Jan 12th, 2021, 7:27 pm

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Re: Old McD's

Postby SteveWillDoIt » Jan 12th, 2021, 7:39 pm

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Re: Old McD's

Postby GordonH » Jan 12th, 2021, 7:47 pm

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Re: Old McD's

Postby Catsumi » Jan 12th, 2021, 7:52 pm

:topic:
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Re: Old McD's

Postby TylerM4 » Jan 12th, 2021, 8:31 pm

cv23 wrote:This supposed inside scoop would contradict the outcome of the court action as McD's obviously proved enough financial hardship for the City to buy the property for over $2mil rather than letting a judge rule on the matter. If the location was indeed still making a profit after the re-alignment the case would have been a slam dunk for the city.


Umm what? When did I say anything that contradicts with what you've shared above?

Also any decline in business due to undesirables congregating in the area was also the City's obligation to control/address so how ever you want to slice it the City was responsible for the business closing.


Why does it matter who was responsible for these problems?
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Re: Old McD's

Postby Fancy » Jan 13th, 2021, 6:27 am

I wonder if the City tried to work with McDonalds to alleviate some of the problems that weren't caused by them.
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Re: Old McD's

Postby Rejigger » Jan 13th, 2021, 12:05 pm

Omnitheo wrote:The McDonalds was struggling and basically defunct long before the road access was changed. The majority of "customers" were homeless and drug addicts who often just came in to use the bathrooms to shoot up.


Whenever I read discussions about a situation in Kelowna, I'm struck by how many people can't see outside the bubble. As if Kelowna is the only city that has a homeless population or druggies. As if this McDonald's was unique - as if there's no other McD's in any other city in the world that has an issue of this sort, no other McD's in the slums of North America.

Who here hasn't been in a fast food joint in which people have to be buzzed-in to the washroom? Are you aware that the A&W on Hwy 97 and Enterprise has blue lights in their washrooms so that druggies can't find a vein, therefore won't use their washrooms to shoot-up in? Fast food restaurants have been dealing with vagrants and such for as long as they've been around - these restaurants are magnets for them. Yet, the restaurants continue to operate.

They ran this store at a loss for nearly a year and kept a skeleton staff on board. In fact they did not replace any staff as they lost them, eventually the only way to keep it appearing operational was to request help from other McDonalds locations in the city which would temporarily lend staff to the waterfront location.

It's not uncommon for sister-companies of all sorts to share staff, supplies, etc.
Also, fast food restaurants update their look on a fairly regular basis, but consider that McDonald's did not put money into this restaurant knowing what was coming, ie. they took a wait-and-see approach when they got word of the City making this change. Whatever the reason, I still maintain that they could have been profitable in that location if not for having their access cut-off ... and every other gas station and fast food restaurant along the strip is proof of that. For example, the Chevron across the street houses a convenience store (complete with public washroom) and a Triple O's drive-thru, proving the desire for fast food exists at that intersection.

The owners believed that if they held out though until the road changes, they could blame their loss of business on the road and sue the city.

Conjecture. I don't believe for a minute that that's true. I believe the McDonald's would still be there today if not for the actions of the City. The City dealt that McDonald's a raw deal.

Here's an example of a City mayor threatening to close off access to a business so that he could get his way...

"In July of 2009, Calgary Mayor Dave Bronconnier stated “One thing is for sure. The legal access to the First Nation’s land is off of Anderson Road. And so we will have to accommodate and work with our neighbours as we always do… At the end of the day, we need to build an interchange at 37th Street SW and Glenmore (trail) and, most importantly, Calgarians just want us to get on with it.” Over the next few days, Bronconier indicated that while access to the reserve would always be maintained at Anderson Road, the access to the reserve and the Tsuu T’ina’s Grey Eagle Casino at Glenmore Trail and 37th street SW was only ‘considered temporary’. This was disputed by the Nation, and soon legal threats were issued over potential limits to reserve access."
https://calgaryringroad.wordpress.com/2 ... ing-chips/

Mayor Bronconnier wanted to build a ring-road (which now exists, btw) over the reserve and played hardball to get it.

You'll never convince me that a City isn't aware of how crucial access is for a business's viability.

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Re: Old McD's

Postby Fancy » Jan 13th, 2021, 12:22 pm

Rejigger wrote:Whenever I read discussions about a situation in Kelowna, I'm struck by how many people can't see outside the bubble. As if Kelowna is the only city that has a homeless population or druggies.
No one has implied otherwise and please consider a lot of people ARE from outside Kelowna and are very well aware of issues in other centres. Unfortunately, when a few make trouble for paying customers then it does become an issue that should have been addressed at the beginning. There used to be lineups out the door at Timmie's then a few situations changed for the worse unfortunately. One of those being the road work from what I recall.
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