Old McD's

Re: Old McD's

Postby Omnitheo » Jan 15th, 2021, 1:28 pm

Like I stated, the restaurant did not appear to be profitable. It was operating on life support. No new hires, majority of staff from other locations. The restaurant was dead. It had a decent enough drive-thru base in the mornings, but the afternoons and evenings were basically dead. Operating a business with even 4 employees only making $8-$12 an hour is about $40. When you'd have hours go by with 0-$20 in orders, you are not making a profit. That's not even taking into account the property expenses, utilities etc. It's no surprise every other restaurant in that area closed long before the road changes too. Tim Hortons was in the same boat.

Compared to every other location in town, the Water St. McD's simply wasn't pulling any weight. It was 3x the size of locations like Lakeshore and could barely afford to operate with even 1/5th the staff.
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Re: Old McD's

Postby the truth » Jan 15th, 2021, 1:33 pm

i lived in the area at that time, and as much as it hurts me to say this you are 100% correct.
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Re: Old McD's

Postby Rejigger » Jan 15th, 2021, 7:14 pm

Omnitheo wrote:Like I stated, the restaurant did not appear to be profitable. It was operating on life support. No new hires, majority of staff from other locations. The restaurant was dead. It had a decent enough drive-thru base in the mornings, but the afternoons and evenings were basically dead. Operating a business with even 4 employees only making $8-$12 an hour is about $40. When you'd have hours go by with 0-$20 in orders, you are not making a profit. That's not even taking into account the property expenses, utilities etc. It's no surprise every other restaurant in that area closed long before the road changes too. Tim Hortons was in the same boat.

How do you know this, is it public knowledge, somewhere online from the court proceedings? Please provide the link.

I've suggested that the City should have bought the property when they cut off access to it. Are you suggesting that McD's thought they'd get more money from the City if they launched a (10-year) lawsuit with nothing to back their claims? They couldn't just turn around and sell the property to a developer? Why didn't they just drop the suit and sell the property three, four, five years ago? Why is it that the City bought it in the end? So many questions...

(...because something isn't sitting right)

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Re: Old McD's

Postby Fancy » Jan 15th, 2021, 7:40 pm

Just wondering how many times you actually visited McD's or Tim Hortons? I only ask because I was there daily for a very long time and saw the changes.
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Re: Old McD's

Postby one wheel » Jan 15th, 2021, 10:23 pm

I watched both McDonald's & Tim Horton's endure the homeless & drug problems at that location.

It got so bad that McD's changed their coffee stir sticks from a spoon style to a flat end & Tim's wouldn't give out metal spoons after 8:00pm because of cooking drugs.
Some regulars might remember Friday & Saturday nights turning into a total zoo when about a 100 or more young people were on the parking lot ?
We may never know the details of why the City didn't buy the property when McD's closed ?

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Re: Old McD's

Postby Rejigger » Jan 15th, 2021, 11:05 pm

one wheel wrote:We may never know the details of why the City didn't buy the property when McD's closed ?

Yeah, I'm sure we'll never know.

...BUT...

I'm curious how much of the responsibility of dispersing the homeless/druggies fell on the shoulders of the business. If people took to hanging out at my business and shooting up on my property, I should hope the authorities and/or municipality would help solve the problem. I wouldn't be opposed to hiring a private security guard to help, but all they could legally do is *talk* to the offenders and hope they go away on their own.

I find it interesting that some posters would blame the demise of a business, due to social issues, solely on the owners of that business. Then, on top of that, the City cuts-off an access point - which is necessary to operate a fast food restaurant - and there's still no sympathy for the business owner(s). Tough crowd. Perhaps if the City closed-off your back alley and told you to foot the bill to create access to your garage via a driveway down the side of your house you'd think differently. "Oh, we cut off access to your garage for the greater good, and we ain't got no money for you."

So if I understand correctly, the value of the business was driven down, then the value of the property was driven down and the City STILL chose to fight against them in court rather than do the right thing and buy-out the McD's? Yeah, I'm gonna stand my ground on this - which, again, is that I believe the City should have bought them out 10 years ago.

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Re: Old McD's

Postby Fancy » Jan 16th, 2021, 12:06 am

Rejigger wrote:...So if I understand correctly, the value of the business was driven down, then the value of the property was driven down and the City STILL chose to fight against them in court rather than do the right thing and buy-out the McD's? Yeah, I'm gonna stand my ground on this - which, again, is that I believe the City should have bought them out 10 years ago.

10 years ago? That would make it 2010/2011? They closed in 2007.

McDonald's closes
Wayne Moore - Nov 16, 2007 / 4:00 pm | Story: 35258
Long rumoured to be on its way out, McDonalds has permanently closed its downtown Kelowna restaurant.

For a number of years, the area has been a hangout for drug dealers and the homeless.

McDonald's Western Canada spokesperson, Chris Stannell, would not speculate on external reasons for the closure.

"It's really a business decision. The location was not performing as we would like," says Stannell.

"It happens from time to time. It's part of a regular course of business to make decisions like this."

Stannell says the company has decided to focus on the other restaurants in the city.

He declined to comment on outside influences entering into the decision, only to say that the recent construction of the Water/Pandosy corridor has made business more difficult.

"It's safe to say the changes to the entrance points going into the restaurant have made it increasingly difficult for that location."

Other business have either relocated or shut down in the region due to the influx of drug dealers in the area.

Stannell says employees at the downtown restaurant have been offered positions at other locations.

He says the company has no plans at this time to open another restaurant in the immediate area.


https://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/3 ... lds-closes
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Re: Old McD's

Postby Rejigger » Jan 16th, 2021, 12:18 am

Fancy wrote:10 years ago? That would make it 2010/2011? They closed in 2007.

Yeah, so it was possible for the City to buy them 10 years ago. I'd understand you taking exception with my suggested purchase date if they'd closed in 2017.

I'd also questioned why the McD's didn't sell three, four, five years ago...
Rejigger wrote:I've suggested that the City should have bought the property when they cut off access to it. Are you suggesting that McD's thought they'd get more money from the City if they launched a (10-year) lawsuit with nothing to back their claims? They couldn't just turn around and sell the property to a developer? Why didn't they just drop the suit and sell the property three, four, five years ago? Why is it that the City bought it in the end? So many questions...


I wouldn't mind having a discussion with you, but the issues you've been picking up on are superfluous.

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Re: Old McD's

Postby Fancy » Jan 16th, 2021, 7:11 am

Just getting the facts straight. I'd like to get a look at the actual lawsuit.
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Re: Old McD's

Postby cv23 » Jan 16th, 2021, 5:31 pm

Fancy wrote:Just getting the facts straight. I'd like to get a look at the actual lawsuit.


Me too but you can bet the CoK will make very sure that info is buried as deep as possible.

I guess we should look on the bright side. For our over $2mil plus demo costs we now have a very nice piece of vacant land on the highway adjacent to some other very nice pieces of vacant land on the highway.
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Re: Old McD's

Postby GordonH » Jan 16th, 2021, 6:07 pm

^^^ with somewhat limited access, plus pain in *bleep* access for southbound traffic.
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Re: Old McD's

Postby cv23 » Jan 16th, 2021, 7:01 pm

GordonH wrote:^^^ with somewhat limited access, plus pain in *bleep* access for southbound traffic.

Those couldn’t be reasons that would effect the business of the drive thru restaurant at that location would they?
Still a bargain at several mil plus demo and over a decade of legal expenses.
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Re: Old McD's

Postby CrystalCity » Jan 16th, 2021, 9:20 pm

After the city announced plans to replace the Parkinson Rec Center, I can see them putting a recreation facility in the spot. Not a pool, mind you, but classrooms for daycare, training courses, banquet hall, or possibly a gym.
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Re: Old McD's

Postby CrystalCity » Jan 20th, 2021, 4:22 pm

One question to put out there: Tim's eventually "relocated" you could say to what was the Paramount Theatre, and it makes me wonder what ever stopped McD's from doing the same? There's no drive through and limited parking at the Paramount location. There's a McD's at the corner of 3rd & Victoria in the Loops, which can be said has even less access for drive through and parking. I've just been wondering about that for a while now. There's a pending lease at the South East corner of Ella and I'd get a good laugh if that turned out to be a McD's. If that is the case then it really can't be said that the primary issue of the old site was reduced access. :135:
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Re: Old McD's

Postby Omnitheo » Jan 20th, 2021, 4:58 pm

Downtown is not an ideal location for McDonalds. There are too many food options available for pedestrians in the area and competition can be fierce. Both tourists and workers in the area will tend to opt for other choices. McDonald’s does well in retail locations with fewer options, or a particular “fast food” presence where the area is a hub for such restaurants. Outside of this the business does well as easy access from highways on the approach or exit of cities or major arteries between commercial and residential areas.

The location of the McDonald’s there was no longer optimal to those purposes, and hence business was slipping. A better location may have been on the westside closer to where landmark is now, but but as the bigger McDonald’s rush is dinner and people on the way home from work, that location was on the wrong side of the highway. Instead the Harvey location was upgraded, and now a new location has been set up on highway 97 north on the way out of town.

You’ll see this in most cities, and any McDonald’s which remain in a downtown core are typically leftovers which are much older locations that have remained profitable enough. Mostly though you’ll see them outside of downtown, particularly newer ones. Tim Hortons is a bit different as the larger business comes from the mornings, where an approach into town, or a downtown location will thrive.

The location there even before traffic really wasn’t working for any location in the area. It wasn’t just because of homeless or drug addicts. Other businesses tried and failed in the same place and the business owners saw the writing on the wall. (Heck even Tim Hortons which was well positioned still couldn’t prosper given the other conditions of the area, and it shut down well before the traffic changes).

I’m not blaming them for the failure of the location, but I am for them trying to extort the city and blame the failure of the business on road changes that came afterwards.
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