Old McD's

Re: Old McD's

Postby Ken7 » Jan 20th, 2021, 5:04 pm

CrystalCity wrote:After the city announced plans to replace the Parkinson Rec Center, I can see them putting a recreation facility in the spot. Not a pool, mind you, but classrooms for daycare, training courses, banquet hall, or possibly a gym.


Usure if that would even be a consideration. If accessing and leaving the property was that bad for McDonalds, changing the footprint of a building isn't going to fix traffic issues, or will it?
User avatar
Ken7
Guru
 
Posts: 7945
Likes: 5286 posts
Liked in: 4353 posts
Joined: Sep 30th, 2007, 4:09 pm

Re: Old McD's

Postby CrystalCity » Jan 20th, 2021, 5:21 pm

It won't "fix" the traffic issue from the highway, but then users of a rec centre typically plan their trips to it more then say a fast food restaurant, so the access from Pandosy via Boyce becomes slightly more acceptable, and it is also convenient to low income patrons who may be more likely to arrive by walking or taking the bus. The current Parkinson Rec Centre also limits those who randomly enter the facility so there is the added deterrent to those who will only enter the building to have a sheltered site while using drugs. I must add that I'm also biased to the idea since my original thought of a Speakers Corner can still run along the hwy. :sosorry:

Omnitheo wrote:You’ll see this in most cities, and any McDonald’s which remain in a downtown core are typically leftovers which are much older locations that have remained profitable enough. Mostly though you’ll see them outside of downtown, particularly newer ones. Tim Hortons is a bit different as the larger business comes from the mornings, where an approach into town, or a downtown location will thrive.


The one in downtown Kamloops is 20 years old, and if you look to see when it's peak hours are, the do tend to be during the morning rush. It's small, almost a hole in the wall kiosk, but appeals to those who prefer what is familiar (often with young children in tow) when they want a bite as they pay their bills, or before and after an appointment.
Last edited by CrystalCity on Jan 20th, 2021, 5:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Not even the blood that flows through my veins is my own.

Omnitheo likes this post.
CrystalCity
Fledgling
 
Posts: 297
Likes: 112 posts
Liked in: 37 posts
Joined: May 24th, 2011, 1:04 pm
Location: In my own reality

Re: Old McD's

Postby cv23 » Jan 20th, 2021, 5:28 pm

One question to put out there: Tim's eventually "relocated" you could say to what was the Paramount Theatre, and it makes me wonder what ever stopped McD's from doing the same? There's no drive through and limited parking at the Paramount location. There's a McD's at the corner of 3rd & Victoria in the Loops, which can be said has even less access for drive through and parking. I've just been wondering about that for a while now. There's a pending lease at the South East corner of Ella and I'd get a good laugh if that turned out to be a McD's. If that is the case then it really can't be said that the primary issue of the old site was reduced access. :135:

Not comparing apples to apples at all.
The previous location was selected and a facility custom built based on drive thru traffic as the primary and targeted market group.
If either of the locations mentioned above had the sidewalks in front of their businesses removed and replace with roadways thus eliminating any foot traffic would they be at fault for failure of their business or would the entity that removed access to their business by their primary market group be at fault?
Obviously the locations mentioned above were not selected nor a custom building constructed based on access by drive thru traffic. Even though all McD's franchises they are completely different business models each based on access to a location by their primary targeted market group.
Last edited by cv23 on Jan 20th, 2021, 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
cv23
Guru
 
Posts: 7842
Likes: 5516 posts
Liked in: 2522 posts
Joined: Jul 4th, 2005, 2:59 pm
Location: Kelowna

Re: Old McD's

Postby cv23 » Jan 20th, 2021, 5:32 pm

.
I’m not blaming them for the failure of the location, but I am for them trying to extort the city and blame the failure of the business on road changes that came afterwards.


Still waiting for someone, anyone, to show actual hard proof the business was not profitable before the road changes.

While we're waiting maybe some one can explain why the CoK paid $2mil and untold legal expenses for the property if a court would have found then with no responsibility for the failure of the McD's at that location? It is Supreme Court after all so the CoK would have even received all it's legal expenses back from McD's when the CoK was found to have no responsibility for the failure of McD's at that location. Is the CoK really that free with throwing away millions in taxpayers funds on a case they were sure to win?
The CoK's abundances of stupidity and arrogance knows no bounds when it comes to legal matters. Take a look at both the Greenway and the Simpson Covenant challenge as prime examples.
Last edited by cv23 on Jan 20th, 2021, 6:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
cv23
Guru
 
Posts: 7842
Likes: 5516 posts
Liked in: 2522 posts
Joined: Jul 4th, 2005, 2:59 pm
Location: Kelowna

Re: Old McD's

Postby CrystalCity » Jan 20th, 2021, 5:45 pm

cv23 wrote: Not comparing apples to apples at all.
The previous location was selected and a facility custom built based on drive thru traffic as the primary and targeted market group.
If either of the locations mentioned above had the sidewalks in front of their businesses removed and replace with roadways thus eliminating any foot traffic would they be at fault for failure of their business or would the entity that removed access to their business by their primary market group be at fault?
Obviously the locations mentioned above were not selected nor a custom building constructed based on access by drive thru traffic. Even though all McD's franchises they are completely different business models each based on access to a location by their primary targeted market group.

Well true. I guess what I am thinking is that there could have been a business case made, be it a tax break from the city or something, to establish a new operation in the downtown (even near Prospera Place - which refering back to the 3rd & Victoria restaurant in the Loops is another factor to it's continued operation since it is close access to Blazer games).
Not even the blood that flows through my veins is my own.
CrystalCity
Fledgling
 
Posts: 297
Likes: 112 posts
Liked in: 37 posts
Joined: May 24th, 2011, 1:04 pm
Location: In my own reality

Re: Old McD's

Postby cv23 » Jan 20th, 2021, 5:54 pm

. I guess what I am thinking is that there could have been a business case made, be it a tax break from the city or something, to establish a new operation in the downtown (even near Prospera Place - which refering back to the 3rd & Victoria restaurant in the Loops is another factor to it's continued operation since it is close access to Blazer games).


Because there is zero accountability within the CoK and because it is not their money but rather ours they throw around like monopoly money their business sense is zero. It would take someone with a basic understanding of business to make the suggestion you mentioned above and hopefully one day the CoK will hire such an individual.
Last edited by cv23 on Jan 20th, 2021, 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

lesliepaul likes this post.
User avatar
cv23
Guru
 
Posts: 7842
Likes: 5516 posts
Liked in: 2522 posts
Joined: Jul 4th, 2005, 2:59 pm
Location: Kelowna

Re: Old McD's

Postby CrystalCity » Jan 20th, 2021, 6:05 pm

Yes, there was definite all or nothing thinking when it came to the SWOT analysis. Probably why Urban Project Management is in hot demand for many cities. It's also more likely that you'll get better (and more detailed) civic participation when conducting public surveys that are open ended as a roll of toilet paper.
Not even the blood that flows through my veins is my own.

cv23 likes this post.
CrystalCity
Fledgling
 
Posts: 297
Likes: 112 posts
Liked in: 37 posts
Joined: May 24th, 2011, 1:04 pm
Location: In my own reality

Re: Old McD's

Postby Omnitheo » Jan 20th, 2021, 9:36 pm

cv23 wrote:
.
I’m not blaming them for the failure of the location, but I am for them trying to extort the city and blame the failure of the business on road changes that came afterwards.


Still waiting for someone, anyone, to show actual hard proof the business was not profitable before the road changes.

While we're waiting maybe some one can explain why the CoK paid $2mil and untold legal expenses for the property if a court would have found then with no responsibility for the failure of the McD's at that location? It is Supreme Court after all so the CoK would have even received all it's legal expenses back from McD's when the CoK was found to have no responsibility for the failure of McD's at that location. Is the CoK really that free with throwing away millions in taxpayers funds on a case they were sure to win?
The CoK's abundances of stupidity and arrogance knows no bounds when it comes to legal matters. Take a look at both the Greenway and the Simpson Covenant challenge as prime examples.


Seems like the city was scammed. Perhaps the McDonald’s showed a profit margin change following the road changes, but keep in mind that the actions they were taking easily could have fudged the numbers. IE not hiring staff and instead using staff from other locations. This would have allowed them to keep that off the books for the water street location. Of course around the time there were also many allegations about unpaid overtime, a reliance on “training wages” and employers clawing back time worked and shorting staff on pay. If the employees actually working at that location were being paid by that location, the business would have lost money almost every hour it was in operation except a few in the mornings (which even there it would have been tight).
"Dishwashers, the dishwasher, right? You press it. Remember the dishwasher, you press it, there'd be like an explosion. Five minutes later you open it up the steam pours out, the dishes -- now you press it 12 times, women tell me again." - Trump
User avatar
Omnitheo
Guru
 
Posts: 7638
Likes: 13635 posts
Liked in: 6577 posts
Joined: Jul 19th, 2011, 10:10 am

Re: Old McD's

Postby cv23 » Jan 21st, 2021, 10:18 am

One of Ronald's crew isn't Lovin It anymore. Hell hath no furry like a burger flipper scorned.

To bad for us taxpayers that a person with obvious intimate inside knowledge of McD's financials didn't step up and reveal all their seems likes, could haves, ifs and allegations of number fudging to the Cok and courts because if they had the CoK would have easily walked away unscathed from Mcd's law suit. Instead though they hid vital information in the CoK's case and in doing so wound up costing the taxpayers of Kelowna the millions of dollars the CoK had to spend to settle with McD's. So much for a concerned citizen stepping up for their community.
That location would be a nice space for weary visitors entering the city to be able to stop and recharge after a long drive. They could even conveniently get information about our community such as it's attractions, services and businesses. Kelowna does have a place that provides info but unfortunately it isn't located near the entrance to the city and has even worse access for visitors entering the city than the old McD's location.
User avatar
cv23
Guru
 
Posts: 7842
Likes: 5516 posts
Liked in: 2522 posts
Joined: Jul 4th, 2005, 2:59 pm
Location: Kelowna

Re: Old McD's

Postby TylerM4 » Jan 21st, 2021, 11:08 am

*removed*

For the record - From my view I saw no evidence of the store being being unprofitable. I am confident that it did become "less profitable" as a result of the road changes. Read back a few pages if you're interested in my suspicious as to why that store was closed. Spoiler: I think this was just one of a few "nails in the coffin" for that store.
Last edited by ferri on Jan 21st, 2021, 12:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Try again without making it personal.
TylerM4
Grand Pooh-bah
 
Posts: 2952
Likes: 827 posts
Liked in: 2657 posts
Joined: Feb 27th, 2014, 4:22 pm

Re: Old McD's

Postby CrystalCity » Jan 21st, 2021, 12:19 pm

TylerM4 wrote:For the record - From my view I saw no evidence of the store being being unprofitable. I am confident that it did become "less profitable" as a result of the road changes. Read back a few pages if you're interested in my suspicious as to why that store was closed. Spoiler: I think this was just one of a few "nails in the coffin" for that store.


I think this is a case where both sides failed at negotiating a plan of the site. What offers and counter offers were made? I get that the BC Ministry of transportation has within it's power to acquire land as needed, but that's not to say there was a massive missed opportunity for a win-win solution for everyone involved. Too much inside the box thinking. OH! McDonald's MUST have a drive through! OH! The bridge must be completed at all costs! OH! the location only has a limited type of use. So on and so on.
Not even the blood that flows through my veins is my own.
CrystalCity
Fledgling
 
Posts: 297
Likes: 112 posts
Liked in: 37 posts
Joined: May 24th, 2011, 1:04 pm
Location: In my own reality

Re: Old McD's

Postby TylerM4 » Jan 21st, 2021, 1:26 pm

cv23 wrote:
Still waiting for someone, anyone, to show actual hard proof the business was not profitable before the road changes.



*removed* There are only a handful of people in the world with access to that information, much less the ability to post it as "proof". The ask is unreasonable/impossible and as a result lack of someone doing it doesn't really strengthen the argument to the contrary.
Last edited by ferri on Jan 21st, 2021, 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Private message for answer to your question.

Omnitheo likes this post.
TylerM4
Grand Pooh-bah
 
Posts: 2952
Likes: 827 posts
Liked in: 2657 posts
Joined: Feb 27th, 2014, 4:22 pm

Re: Old McD's

Postby cv23 » Jan 21st, 2021, 1:36 pm

The MoT acquired no land at this intersection.
The MoT demanded the CoK make changes to the bridge approach in order for the new bridge to proceed. The CoK designed a re-alignment of the Water/Pandosy/Harvey intersection to appease the MoT. Part of the CoK's design decision was the closing of access to and from the southern portion of Water St to Harvey (Hwy97). This was the CoK's design and decision but the MoT did have a hand in the whole matter by demanding changes be made without directly saying what changes were required.
There is no question the MoT should bare a portion of responsibility and a just like the CoK they have zero idea of how business works and care nothing about how their decisions might affect a business.
I totally agree that opportunities were missed in this. For some reason Chevron came out of this smelling like a rose with a land swap to ensure easy access and therefor continued success of their drive in/thru business but for some unknow reason McD's was not shown the same consideration or courtesy. We will likely never know why not.
One positive is that if the CoK sells or utilizes the three adjoining properties we now own at this location the parcel becomes far easier of a sale and more practical to develop. Personally I see this a prime opputunity for the CoK to sell the three pieces together and not only recoup the $2mil plus legal costs from the McD's property purchase but also additional revenue from two currently used and orphaned pieces of civic owned property beside the old McD's property.
User avatar
cv23
Guru
 
Posts: 7842
Likes: 5516 posts
Liked in: 2522 posts
Joined: Jul 4th, 2005, 2:59 pm
Location: Kelowna

Re: Old McD's

Postby CrystalCity » Jan 21st, 2021, 1:59 pm

Are you talking about that wedge in front of Willowbridge? Yes, I think it wise to amalgamate the 3 parcels together. While I'd like to see it kept of municipal use, it'd be somewhat ironic if sold to the province. Have an office for MoT, Social Development, and Shared Services/Residential Tenancy Branch all together. I dream, I dream.
Not even the blood that flows through my veins is my own.
CrystalCity
Fledgling
 
Posts: 297
Likes: 112 posts
Liked in: 37 posts
Joined: May 24th, 2011, 1:04 pm
Location: In my own reality

Previous

Return to Central Okanagan

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot], TylerM4 and 6 guests