46 stories? Where is our spineless fire chief?

Re: 46 stories? Where is our spineless fire chief?

Postby bigtimeoperations » Jan 15th, 2021, 5:43 pm

:cuss: ridiculous, what is happening to this city?! How about a 50 storey proposal next!
Kelowna is the capital of Alberta

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Re: 46 stories? Where is our spineless fire chief?

Postby seewood » Jan 16th, 2021, 9:50 am

From what I understand is the tall buildings, similar to what is being proposed, have water reservoirs at various levels including the top of the building. Pumps relay pump water upwards to fill the top reservoir and should a fire erupt, gravity feeds the impacted sprinklers. As water is fed to lower floors from the reservoir, pressure reducing valves prevent high pressure blow-outs.

This system is used in high rises including the new World Trade center in NYC.
The fire guys ( and girls) will pack their own hoses( usually a 2-1/2" line) up the stairs to the floor below the fire, hook the line to the stand pipe and proceed to the impacted floor. If more lines are needed a gated Y is put on the end of the 2 1/2" and two 1-3/4 lines are deployed.

I have seen demonstrations of helicopters equipped with a belly tank and a long water cannon poking out the front that will discharge water into a burning room.
https://www.arabianaerospace.aero/helis ... alifa.html
https://fireaviation.com/2019/12/23/eri ... 1610815769
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Re: 46 stories? Where is our spineless fire chief?

Postby Bsuds » Jan 16th, 2021, 10:10 am

seewood wrote:From what I understand is the tall buildings, similar to what is being proposed, have water reservoirs at various levels including the top of the building. Pumps relay pump water upwards to fill the top reservoir and should a fire erupt, gravity feeds the impacted sprinklers. As water is fed to lower floors from the reservoir, pressure reducing valves prevent high pressure blow-outs.


Don't confuse the naysayers with common sense facts.

They can't handle it and will have a meltdown.
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Re: 46 stories? Where is our spineless fire chief?

Postby firsttimecaller » Jan 16th, 2021, 10:39 am

Equipment and Apparatus are not an issue. The real issue when it comes to a high-rise fire is manpower. A high-rise fire would quickly deplete the Kelowna Fire Departments available on duty personnel.
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Re: 46 stories? Where is our spineless fire chief?

Postby common_sense_guy » Jan 16th, 2021, 10:45 am

featfan wrote:http://en.people.cn/90001/90776/90882/7236944.html

World's most advanced fire truck can reach 400-meter roof (2)
16:42, December 20, 2010

A fire engine equipped with world's highest fire-fighting ladder was displayed in Hanzhou, capital of eastern China's Zhejing Province on May 30, 2008. Its maximum working height is 101 meters, and it is made in Finland. It is 16.3 meters long and weighs 60.2 tons. There are only five trucks of this kind around the world.

So what is it? Your first sentence says there's a fire truck that can reach a 400m of roof. Then you go on to talk about the world's biggest fire truck that can reach a 100 m roof. Your first and second points contradict each other perfectly
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Re: 46 stories? Where is our spineless fire chief?

Postby common_sense_guy » Jan 16th, 2021, 10:48 am

Do any of the whiners here have a clue how they fight fires in skyscrapers around the world? I'm guessing by their answers and their rhetorical outraged comments they do not.
So why is the fire chief spineless and not saying what you think you should say? What should he be saying?
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Re: 46 stories? Where is our spineless fire chief?

Postby stuphoto » Jan 16th, 2021, 1:00 pm

To me it looks like they just let them burn :135:

I don't know why anyone would name a building The Torch :200:
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Re: 46 stories? Where is our spineless fire chief?

Postby CrystalCity » Jan 16th, 2021, 10:19 pm

I'm laughing because it's been dubbed "2020". That's a good way to earn support for it. :135:
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Re: 46 stories? Where is our spineless fire chief?

Postby abraham » Jan 16th, 2021, 11:30 pm

This is why we use sophisticated fire suppression systems specifically engineered for these buildings! When was the last time you have heard of a modern concrete high rise burning down! I think the OP just doesn’t like high rise buildings! Last time I checked Kelowna is a fast growing city with a growing population and no signs of slowing down!

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Re: 46 stories? Where is our spineless fire chief?

Postby CrystalCity » Jan 17th, 2021, 3:05 am

Not to mention that cloned McMasions with landscapes yards are typically more fire prone in general. In terms of London's Grenfell tower, it was not up to code, the internal hoses and extinguishers were expired and the building had been reclad with flammable material. I like high rises, and seeing the parcel developed. It's just the name I question. I like Brooklyn but not the name also. It does play into the sense of trying too hard to be "big city", especially when you consider that the NYC borough is "across the bridge". If it's the urban vibe the developer wants, then I propose trying "The Met", or even ideas from Chicago.
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Re: 46 stories? Where is our spineless fire chief?

Postby featfan » Jan 17th, 2021, 8:36 am

common_sense_guy wrote:
featfan wrote:http://en.people.cn/90001/90776/90882/7236944.html

World's most advanced fire truck can reach 400-meter roof (2)
16:42, December 20, 2010

A fire engine equipped with world's highest fire-fighting ladder was displayed in Hanzhou, capital of eastern China's Zhejing Province on May 30, 2008. Its maximum working height is 101 meters, and it is made in Finland. It is 16.3 meters long and weighs 60.2 tons. There are only five trucks of this kind around the world.

So what is it? Your first sentence says there's a fire truck that can reach a 400m of roof. Then you go on to talk about the world's biggest fire truck that can reach a 100 m roof. Your first and second points contradict each other perfectly


Definitely a mistake in the article, should be 100 not 400

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Re: 46 stories? Where is our spineless fire chief?

Postby Randall T » Jan 17th, 2021, 9:19 am

I think the concern should be for the increasing height allowance for wood-framed buildings. Of course we're told they are safer and could never burn up like a steel and concrete one. But then the last time I tried to build a campfire with rocks they were impossible to light. I'll have to google it before the next attempt.
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Re: 46 stories? Where is our spineless fire chief?

Postby BC Landlord » Jan 17th, 2021, 10:31 am

Even Steven wrote:Do you think fire departments there have 2,700 feet ladders?


The problem would be pumps. You would need at least 1,200 Psi for water just to trickle at 2,700 ft. At 470 ft it would be over 200 Psi. And that fire hose needs a lot of volume. To get a proper flow at the end of that hose (>500 Gpm), you would probably need ten times that pressure. I am not saying it's impossible. Some taller buildings have big water tanks at the rooftop to feed sprinklers system, or they feed water to fire hydrants (on every floor) from a bad-ass fire engine.

Not every fire engine is good for these heights, and probably none of Kelowna's FD. I am not sure what the deal is with the developer here, but if Kelowna needs new fire engines, just because someone wants to build skyscrapers, who's paying for them? Taxpayer?
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Re: 46 stories? Where is our spineless fire chief?

Postby CrystalCity » Jan 17th, 2021, 12:17 pm

In terms of supplying the water for fire safety it's the responsibility of the strata to maintain the system that the developer incorporates into the building. I believe that is under the BC Strata Act.
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Re: 46 stories? Where is our spineless fire chief?

Postby BC Landlord » Jan 17th, 2021, 1:19 pm

CrystalCity wrote:In terms of supplying the water for fire safety it's the responsibility of the strata to maintain the system that the developer incorporates into the building. I believe that is under the BC Strata Act.


I am not familiar with the Act, but I would question what that "supplying the water for fire safety" entails? Is it just an upgrade of water-main (volume-wise), or it also involves suitable fire engines to boost the pressure? And it has to be a fire engine, as the first thing fire crews will do is to shut the power off to the building, thus no internal pump is of any use. From what I know, fire departments are almost entirely (spare some fund-raising) taxpayer funded, and the city has the ownership, including the equipment.

There is a valid reason why existing height limitations are at 12 storeys, and that is exactly Kelowna's FD technical limitations. Changing it to 46 is a hell of a leap.

If I were a Kelowna taxpayer, I would like to know more about this deal.
Last edited by BC Landlord on Jan 17th, 2021, 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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