46 stories? Where is our spineless fire chief?

[seewood]

Think it is the platform height. Height you can work from.

^^^ You were mentioning in previous posts about pressures to move water to those heights and you are right in that at 370 feet you'll have about 185 psi drop from gravity. To get the wet stuff on the red stuff you'll need another 100 psi. Around 300 psi at the pump discharge. Doable with a big engine, big pump and big water supply.

Hi rises use relay systems to move water inside the building.

I wonder what a machine like that would cost???

[gman313]

Actually, Kelowna has 24 volunteer firefighters. They have 148 permanent paid

https://www.kelowna.ca/city-services/sa ... department

So that is more than the 70-100 you suggest is needed???

[Bsuds]

removed by me

[LANDM]

To answer the title question on this thread, the fire department has explained the concerns of the OP. Whether the fire chief is vertebrate or invertebrate, the department is answering the concerns brought up in this thread.

https://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/3 ... in-a-fire-

[firsttimecaller]

Actually, Kelowna has 24 volunteer firefighters. They have 148 permanent paid

https://www.kelowna.ca/city-services/sa ... department

So that is more than the 70-100 you suggest is needed???

"148 full time personnel". This includes administrative staff, dispatchers, etc. The 148 are not all firemen.

[featfan]

https://www.castanet.net/news/BC/323215 ... y-highrise

Firefighters hoof it up 43 storeys to battle blaze in unfinished Burnaby highrise.

So how many of our amazing firefighters would be in top form to fight a fire after this?
I have seen a few videos of challenges put on for fighters and those folks are in shape.

So when you have a fire in a highrise is`nt the power and Elevator shut down?

High rise buildings also incorporate smoke control measures designed to remove smoke from that building."
I think you need power for the fans?

[CrystalCity]

The general power is, but there are emergency power circuits for cases such as a fire.

Oh course firefighters are in shape. They wouldn't be able to sell calendars otherwise!

[Queller]

To be clear, Insp. Paul Johnson was speaking to the fire safety features incorporated into a high-rise building, which are mandated by the BC building code, which generally follows NFPA guidelines for fire protection systems. When one of these buildings has a fire, it complicates the response for the Fire Dept., and requires significantly more firefighter resources than a typical low-rise building. Most Fire Dept.'s in BC (and North America), would send 42 plus career firefighters within the first 10 minutes to a fire in a high-rise. Kelowna can only send all FF"s on duty, which is usually around 23. That is why if the fire is not compartmentalized or extinguished quickly, the FD is in trouble, and will rapidly become overwhelmed. This is the reality, and one the City seems to have chosen to ignore. Risk management, I guess. A major fire in a high-rise has a relatively low risk of occurrence, just hope it doesn't happen when you're in the building!

[johnmartin]

Actually, Kelowna has 24 volunteer firefighters. They have 148 permanent paid

https://www.kelowna.ca/city-services/sa ... department

So that is more than the 70-100 you suggest is needed???

"148 full time personnel". This includes administrative staff, dispatchers, etc. The 148 are not all firemen.

Kelowna has roughly 100 suppression firefighters on 4 shifts. That's only 25 on shift at a time and some are off on Holidays, Lieu Days, and sickness. Not enough for a high rise fire!!

[Bsuds]

Kelowna has roughly 100 suppression firefighters on 4 shifts. That's only 25 on shift at a time and some are off on Holidays, Lieu Days, and sickness. Not enough for a high rise fire!!

Are they not on call if needed? That is my assumption.

[johnmartin]

Kelowna has roughly 100 suppression firefighters on 4 shifts. That's only 25 on shift at a time and some are off on Holidays, Lieu Days, and sickness. Not enough for a high rise fire!!

Are they not on call if needed? That is my assumption.

The volunteers are available and the department can do call backs but the time required to be on scene to support there fellow brothers and sisters is 690 seconds as required by NFPA 1710. This is for safety of the fire fighters and the public. Remember you are also draining the department for one event. Other emergencies go on in the city.

[johnmartin]

Standard High Rise Fire Response in brief:

The standard response of fire apparatus and personnel to a large structure (High Rise – more than 22.86m (75 ft ) ~7 floors from ground level for fire department vehicle access) for a confirmed fire response.

The recommendation of NFPA 1710 is 42 firefighters.

Response time guidelines for NFPA 1710 are as follows:
First Company- 320 seconds turnout and travel time
Second Company-min 4 personnel-440 seconds turnout and travel
High Rise- total of 42 personnel- 690 seconds turnout and travel

These requirements are there for public and firefighter safety due to the density of population within a high rise structure.
NFPA 1710 has a number of sections but the two that you should be concerned with is the number of firefighters required for a confirmed fire response but also the timeline they require those personnel to be on scene. This is key because the fire will be fought as an interior attack and will be far more dangerous for firefighters and the public. Kelowna has approximately 22-24 firefighters on shift at one time. They have a call back system for others that are off duty and for paid on call volunteers. The problem is that the call backs and volunteers take longer than 690 seconds to get on scene from the initial alarm call. A huge pivotal problem for safety. Another question is are you going to drain the whole city of firefighters for one event? The Mayor and council are playing with fire!!
I don't like to contradict fellow brothers and sisters in the fire service but Firefighter Johnson has obviously not been in a fire or interior attack situation. I am never comfortable in any fire. They are dangerous and unpredictable. I have lost fellow brothers to this type of fire in Toronto and I would hate to see Kelowna having the same experience.

Retired Captain Toronto Fire Service

[CrystalCity]

The Closest Fire Dept is at 1616 Water Street (temporary closed), a 4 min drive to 1468 Bertram, of course there will be added time in suiting up etc. The next closest is on Enterprise, which is an 8 min drive.

[seewood]

As insurance companies seem to drive fire standards, perhaps when an adjuster looks at the fire plan and realizes the response turnout is not up to NFPA standards, the insurance rating will not be favorable resulting in higher insurance costs to the building owner and ones renting, purchasing or leasing space.

When this happens the owners start to howl at council and want NFPA standards with corresponding insurance rates. Politics being what they are, council will capitulate if they want to keep their positions on council.

[CrystalCity]

With that perhaps now everyone is of the same understanding with the concern.

The city doesn't budget for the coverage a tower that hasn't began construction yet, so here's to the public attending and raising their concerns in future meetings.