Who makes development decisions in Kelowna

Re: Who makes development decisions in Kelowna

Postby LANDM » Feb 15th, 2021, 8:54 am

cv23 wrote:
The OCP wasn’t ignored, it was amended after consideration of the pros and cons.


Whether it be amended, ignored, changed, variances granted, etc, etc makes no difference. The Official Community Plan was not followed so the goals of the Official Community Plan will never be met at that location and in so many other locations within the community that they render the plan worthless.
The people, both hired and elected to consider these matters are the very same people who officially adopted the Official Community Plan. Were they not considering such matters when they officially adopted the OCP for this communities future less than a short 3 years ago or when they amended, ignored, change it shortly afterward? Either way there is no need for a plan that isn't followed within such a short time of being officially adopted or the community needs to examine the retention of the people changing theirs minds so shortly after officially adopting the plan for the communities future. No great loss in either or both as the goals expressed by the public/community stakeholders for this communities future are not being met by either.

ETA; Isn't the future Costco property owned by Bennetts?


Lots of nice bolding that reinforces what it is. A plan that tries to forecast the best needs of the community years in advance. Nobody can accurately forecast every need ahead of time. That is why there are specific allowances for amendment proposals and, to be accurate, they are NOT streamlined. It is an arduous process and they are thoughtfully considered.

Also, from COK
The 2040 OCP update will primarily update land uses, mapping and policies to reflect the community’s vision (as captured through Imagine Kelowna) and to clearly signal where development will be prioritized and supported with infrastructure and amenities. The OCP provides a policy framework for Council by addressing issues such as housing, transportation, infrastructure, parks, economic development and the natural and social environment.


It reflects the community's vision and "signals" where development will be prioritized and supported.
Nowhere is it cast in stone, nor should it be.

Do your strong feelings on it mean that you are highly involved in the current iteration of the OCP update? Often, people who sit back and complain that something is being done wrong are not aware of the ability of the public to be involved. :up:

Finally, it is literally the only piece in that general area that could work. Does it matter who owns it? It is up to Costco to do the required rezoning and OCP amendments, not the owner.
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Re: Who makes development decisions in Kelowna

Postby cv23 » Feb 15th, 2021, 12:06 pm

Like many long time Kelowna resident I have been involved in providing input to not just the upcoming edition of the OCP but also provided input on previous OCP's. I often attend Council meetings and have not only spoken but provided written input on matters which I feel are important to the community. I have witnessed Council disregard the public's input on so many items over the years that I'm frankly disgusted. This will be the last OCP I provide input on as my input and the input every other citizen who cares about this community and takes the time to give input on is treated with nothing more than lip service. We provide input and it is clearly recognized in formulating an OCP but the problem is that is a far as anything goes. Our input and the long term plan it helps create for this community is regularly ignored by Council in favour of private profits.

COK wrote:The 2040 OCP update will primarily update land uses, mapping and policies to reflect the community’s vision (as captured through Imagine Kelowna) and to clearly signal where development will be prioritized and supported with infrastructure and amenities. The OCP provides a policy framework for Council by addressing issues such as housing, transportation, infrastructure, parks, economic development and the natural and social environment.

What good is providing Council with not only the community's vision but also a framework of that vision to follow if both are continuously ignored and disregarded. Nearly 14,000 citizens stepped up and told Council their opinion about a particular matter last year and Council couldn't have cared less. Why should citizens continue bother providing input when that input falls on deaf ears?
Scrap the OCP as such a document is clearly no longer relevant in today's Kelowna. Put the effort and funds into something productive for the community . Let those who are profiting pay to draw a plan as they will get their way anyway.

Finally, it is literally the only piece in that general area that could work. Does it matter who owns it? It is up to Costco to do the required rezoning and OCP amendments, not the owner.

It certainly does matter who owns the future Costco property as they stand to financially profit the most from Council rezoning the property. Why does Costco have to be located in that particular area? Not because the citizens said so but clearly because Costco (or maybe Bennett's) said so. There are lots of other parcels of land available in Kelowna, some already with appropriate zoning or future land use designation so why this particular piece of property? Costco showed interest in moving as far as to the Westside so why was this particular area and this particular piece of property so important, and so important to exactly who? There are lots of late comer out of towners like Milroy who have influenced Council in order to shape Kelowna to maximize their personal profits but the Old Boys Club still has a place at the table.

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Re: Who makes development decisions in Kelowna

Postby Mrmarvingardens » Feb 15th, 2021, 1:16 pm

My guess is that the owners(Victor) Bennetts offeredCotsco a good deal, probably a long term lease on the property.
A lot of their properties are leases.This property has been sitting empty for a long time
One that comes to mind is Guisichan Village.
All the homes are subject to lease plus strata fees.
Sunrise Village down the road modular homes is subject to lease fees plus strata.
S.V is owned by Ben Stewart
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Re: Who makes development decisions in Kelowna

Postby just_browsing » Mar 20th, 2021, 8:59 am

Mrmarvingardens wrote:So you think Kelowna Council makes the decisions on development in the city?
Guess again.
Last week, the city planning department, AFTER hearing of the planned 43 and 46 storey buildings, planning staff decided tall buildings are ok but they must be slimmer.
NOT SO FAST says Ryan Smith, the Planning Director.
He announced the proposal is not to go before council quite yet.
"We have to consult with our stakeholders first and get their input"
Think this confirms what most people already knew.
The tail wags the dog as the expression goes! :200:


By the time I'm done spreading my awareness to local political figures, insurance companies, and investigative news venues, I'm pretty sure (hoping) Ryan Smith is going to have his eyes opened to the realities of planning a city without a fraction of the adequate fire protection required for his Urban Metropolis personality. He can only turn his ignorant head for so long before the real professionals gain an edge and shut him down.
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Re: Who makes development decisions in Kelowna

Postby Grandan » Mar 22nd, 2021, 8:21 am

Boosted632 wrote:How long ago did they come up with the ocp? Things change a thirty year old ocp isn't going to work out very well now, changes were needed and have been made deal with it or move on.

The OCP is updated globally every 10 years and incrementally every time a modification is made.
To suggest that a planner sitting in his office can imagine what the shape of the city will be in 10 years is ludicrous. You simply cannot envision all the nuances and objectives of land owners and developers. To it's credit the city has generally stuck to objectives in the movement of traffic by insisting that road connections are made where appropriate.
we are still struggling with decisions made 50 or more years ago with the layout of roads in Kelowna such as mid town towers around Kirchner Road with no internal through road. The extension of Sutherland to Spall Road addresses that problem.
When looking at Zoning changes we should not be looking at present zoning but what is "Generalized future Zoning " proposed for that area.
The future Costco outlet site on Springfield may be zoned agriculture but has not been used for that purpose for more than 40 years, is surrounded by high density housing and was removed from the Agricultural Land Reserve over 30 years ago so I can imagine the complaints if that land was intensively farmed.
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Re: Who makes development decisions in Kelowna

Postby cv23 » Mar 22nd, 2021, 9:51 am

Boosted632 wrote:How long ago did they come up with the ocp? Things change a thirty year old ocp isn't going to work out very well now, changes were needed and have been made deal with it or move on.

The OCP was last updated and adopted by Council in Kelowna less than three years ago not 30.
If present Council and staff are going to continuously ignore a recently updated "Official" community plan it shows either the document is useless and a waste of time and money or those who are constantly changing it are.

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Re: Who makes development decisions in Kelowna

Postby just_browsing » Mar 23rd, 2021, 7:51 am

It used to be just called the "Plan". Then it was being manipulated to benefit just a couple individual capitalists so they kept the "plan" secret and made the "Community Plan". When this plan started to become obsolete and realized it was once again being steered by investment money and inside employees, they decided they now needed a new plan to engage the community with and so called it the "official community plan". It seems to me we are about ready to ditch this and come up with a new name.

I vote for "Unprecedented Oficial Community Plan"

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Re: Who makes development decisions in Kelowna

Postby Grandan » Mar 23rd, 2021, 8:08 am

cv23 wrote:The OCP has become quite a joke as well a waste of time and money. The goal of seeing the community grow as the citizens envision it to has been lost to the vision outside developers have for our community that maximizes their individual profits.

There is no reason a plan can't change but the eventual goal should remain the same or very close to it or it is no longer a plan but rather a bunch of random decisions made with no clear final goal in mind.

It would seem to me that what you are saying is that if a local community decides they are going to remain single family housing forever then no person could come along and plant a duplex or fourplex where a modest home sits. This means in effect that the children of the residents as they mature and raise their own families that there would be no way for them to be able to stay in the neighbourhood.
There are simply too many moving parts for any plan to be much more than latticework on which to build a community.
If for instance the province decides to throw more money at the hospital for additional services, does that mean they should be told to go away and find another place to offer their services because those homes around the hospital need to remain there because that's what the residents want?
We have seen Kelowna grow much faster than predicted. The Glenmore Valley developed much faster than the predicted models showed. Does that mean we should just stick to the plan no matter what?
How about the south perimeter road, not predicted to be developed for another decade. We should just ignore the developers plan to fast track it and build it now at their own expense and just stick to the plan?
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Re: Who makes development decisions in Kelowna

Postby cv23 » Mar 23rd, 2021, 9:00 am

It would seem to me that what you are saying is that if a local community decides they are going to remain single family housing forever then no person could come along and plant a duplex or fourplex where a modest home sits. This means in effect that the children of the residents as they mature and raise their own families that there would be no way for them to be able to stay in the neighbourhood.

The reason why their parents chose the neighbouhood and now they want to live in that neighbourhood is because of the makeup of that neighbourhood which is single family not fourplexes, apartments or commercial. Properties within a neighbourhood change hands all the time so saying someone doesn't have the ability to live in a neighbourhood without densification is just developer fearmongering.
There are simply too many moving parts for any plan to be much more than latticework on which to build a community.
If for instance the province decides to throw more money at the hospital for additional services, does that mean they should be told to go away and find another place to offer their services because those homes around the hospital need to remain there because that's what the residents want?

Firstly a hospital is a community service and benefit to the community it is located in unlike a highrise with STR's (aka hotel) or a strip mall.
If a resident sells to their neighbour, in your case the hospital, they are just selling their property as happens every day. It should be up to the hospital to convince the rest of the neighbourhood/community of the benefit in further facility expansion. Area resident input is "supposedly" what the OCP is founded upon.
We have seen Kelowna grow much faster than predicted. The Glenmore Valley developed much faster than the predicted models showed. Does that mean we should just stick to the plan no matter what?

If the residents provide input that they want their neighbouhood redeveloped then the OCP designation should be reviewed for that area but as it stands now Council far to often makes that decision for the neighbouhood and any input residents give is simply ignored by Council (14,000 signatures in Rutland ignored as an example)
How about the south perimeter road, not predicted to be developed for another decade. We should just ignore the developers plan to fast track it and build it now at their own expense and just stick to the plan?

The road was part of the plan and the plan is simply being fast tracked at the developers expense. The plan remains in place only the goal is achieved sooner than planned. Win Win.

If it is a plan then there is an eventual goal that is desired to be achieved. If the plan is not followed the goal will never be achieved.
The community is asked for it's input in formulating an Official Community Plan as after all it is our community. By deviating from and ignoring the OCP the community set forth for itself both Council and Staff are not acting on behalf of the community but rather on behalf of some other interests. Why ask for the community's input, formulate a plan and officially adopt that plan only to ignore it? Either follow the plan or seek public input on changing or updating the plan and follow that new plan. As we have it now Council and Staff just ignore the OCP and we need to ask ourselves not only why we spend time and money on formulating an OCP that is ignored but also just for who's benefit is Council and Staff ignoring the OCP for because it is not for the community's benefit. As it stands now the OCP is worthless in Staff and Council's eyes so why not take the resources being wasted on an OCP that is ignored and put those resources towards something that benefits the community not the interests of those who Staff and Council currently and obviously bow down to.

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Re: Who makes development decisions in Kelowna

Postby Grandan » Mar 23rd, 2021, 4:37 pm

I understand the frustration of residents who see an Official Community Plan being ignored. An OCP is just a best guess as to how the city may be shaped in the future. All of the plans in the world will not make things happen if the stakeholders do not come together to support or denounce a development proposal. There are numerous factors which determine whether a development may proceed. Concerns of residents are but one piece of the pie. Residents do not have a veto over a development proposal.
The City of Kelowna can only manage demand for developments of all kinds. By setting a low bar for future zones it puts the onus on the development community to make the case for their vision. They typically need to make their case by using professional planners, architects and engineers who are very often members of our community.
As a last resort residents can appeal to city council, show up in force and crowd the chambers to show their opposition to a proposal. High road-Glenmore?
The plan does not automatically come into compliance if no developer will proceed under those parameters if it does not make economic sense.
It is your money and my money as well as everyone else who suffer if a bad proposal goes through.
As often as not the same developer will come back with a proposal which addresses the shortcomings of the first.
I have known of developments that began as outrageous proposals becoming just what the developer wanted when it was "scaled back".
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Re: Who makes development decisions in Kelowna

Postby deedub » Mar 24th, 2021, 10:28 am

Mission Group wants to build 16 stories on Bertram . Zoned for 12 max . Any bets on whether the city gives them the 16 ?

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Re: Who makes development decisions in Kelowna

Postby cv23 » Mar 24th, 2021, 10:54 am

deedub wrote:Mission Group wants to build 16 stories on Bertram . Zoned for 12 max . Any bets on whether the city gives them the 16 ?


16 is only the initial request, wanna bet on 20 or more if and wen completed?

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Re: Who makes development decisions in Kelowna

Postby BC Landlord » Mar 24th, 2021, 11:00 am

deedub wrote:Mission Group wants to build 16 stories on Bertram . Zoned for 12 max . Any bets on whether the city gives them the 16 ?


This is supposed to be a rentals-only building. Still no information on ownership structure, and who would be running rentals (Mission, City, private investors, ...?). I have a bad feeling, this will all come down on taxpayer subsidizing it.

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Re: Who makes development decisions in Kelowna

Postby Even Steven » Mar 24th, 2021, 11:58 am

BC Landlord wrote:I have a bad feeling, this will all come down on taxpayer subsidizing it.


In what way?
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Re: Who makes development decisions in Kelowna

Postby Mrmarvingardens » Mar 24th, 2021, 12:12 pm

The Mission Group is at it again. Another project.
Whomever finances many of their projects must have deep pockets.
Regarding the Bertram project, they probably want to get the jump on the provincial government plans on the project comprising below market rentals, also on Bertram.
If history is an indicator, the Mission Group uses their rental projects as cash flow, to quote CEO Jonathan Friesen.

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