Cherry Orchard Choppers in -20?

Re: Cherry Orchard Choppers in -20?

Postby LANDM » Feb 13th, 2021, 9:05 am

Brushy Bill wrote:Those are the cherries destined for export to the Chinese market right ?
Owned by foreign investors? Maintained by tfw's ?
mmm fresh cherries .....


No, these are cherries grown locally and sold to whomever they can get the best prices.
Owned locally.
Maintained by whomever the local growers can get, looking at local labour first and, when that is unavailable, getting seasonal agricultural workers.
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Re: Cherry Orchard Choppers in -20?

Postby LANDM » Feb 13th, 2021, 9:07 am

cv23 wrote:OK , got some more info and hopefully an explanation.
If you check the weather you'll see that even though it's -10 outside the humidity is still 43% and the dew point is -19. While its hard to believe there would be frost at -20 there obviously can be given a 43% humidity level. The longer it stays cold the lower the humidity level will become and the lower the dew point will drop to. We went from +8 to -15 in a few short days so the humidity level is still fairly high for temperatures we are presently experiencing.
Overnight lows are almost always recorded close to dawn which presently is 7:15 am. We have had overnight lows approaching -20 the other nights so just below the dew point. If the helicopters can keep the air moving for that brief window before dawn when the dew point is exceeded they can save the trees from frost exposure.
Again hard to believe there would be frost at -20 but the science doesn't lie.


You are confusing the definition of "frost".
Frost, in the context of the discussion here, is below freezing temperatures that can harm the trees, buds, blossoms, etc.
It has nothing to do with the humidity.
Frost=below freezing.
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Re: Cherry Orchard Choppers in -20?

Postby just_browsing » Feb 13th, 2021, 9:46 am

cv23 wrote:OK , got some more info and hopefully an explanation.
If you check the weather you'll see that even though it's -10 outside the humidity is still 43% and the dew point is -19. While its hard to believe there would be frost at -20 there obviously can be given a 43% humidity level. The longer it stays cold the lower the humidity level will become and the lower the dew point will drop to. We went from +8 to -15 in a few short days so the humidity level is still fairly high for temperatures we are presently experiencing.
Overnight lows are almost always recorded close to dawn which presently is 7:15 am. We have had overnight lows approaching -20 the other nights so just below the dew point. If the helicopters can keep the air moving for that brief window before dawn when the dew point is exceeded they can save the trees from frost exposure.
Again hard to believe there would be frost at -20 but the science doesn't lie.


This actually makes some sense, thanks for the response!

As far as how frost damages the fruit and not just the cold air at -20, is still a mystery though as you would think the emerging buds would be frozen solid anyways.

As to the poster about the Chinese cherries. I totally agree with you and this is exactly how farming is in the okanagan now lol. It's becoming more about building massive estates on these orchards than just farming. Just look at the new Mansion on the orchard above Rutland lol.

Foreigners should have zero ownership of our land period. Lease? Sure...Own? Not a chance. Can you believe they just sold the wind farm on the coquihalla to a chinese company?!

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Re: Cherry Orchard Choppers in -20?

Postby just_browsing » Feb 13th, 2021, 9:47 am

LANDM wrote:
cv23 wrote:OK , got some more info and hopefully an explanation.
If you check the weather you'll see that even though it's -10 outside the humidity is still 43% and the dew point is -19. While its hard to believe there would be frost at -20 there obviously can be given a 43% humidity level. The longer it stays cold the lower the humidity level will become and the lower the dew point will drop to. We went from +8 to -15 in a few short days so the humidity level is still fairly high for temperatures we are presently experiencing.
Overnight lows are almost always recorded close to dawn which presently is 7:15 am. We have had overnight lows approaching -20 the other nights so just below the dew point. If the helicopters can keep the air moving for that brief window before dawn when the dew point is exceeded they can save the trees from frost exposure.
Again hard to believe there would be frost at -20 but the science doesn't lie.


You are confusing the definition of "frost".
Frost, in the context of the discussion here, is below freezing temperatures that can harm the trees, buds, blossoms, etc.
It has nothing to do with the humidity.
Frost=below freezing.


No actually frost doesn't occur all the time it drops below zero. It's directly related to the dew point!

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Re: Cherry Orchard Choppers in -20?

Postby cv23 » Feb 13th, 2021, 12:56 pm

You are confusing the definition of "frost".
Frost, in the context of the discussion here, is below freezing temperatures that can harm the trees, buds, blossoms, etc.
It has nothing to do with the humidity.
Frost=below freezing.

So when it is 20 degrees below freezing how are helicopters helping anything? Obviously the buds are damaged beyond saving at such far below freezing temperatures so why waste thousands of dollars trying to prevent something that has already occurred days prior?
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Re: Cherry Orchard Choppers in -20?

Postby ferri » Feb 13th, 2021, 12:58 pm

I live near a cherry orchard, they have wind machines, and none of them have been running. I have no idea why choppers would be flying over unless they were fertilizing? That's all I've got.
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Re: Cherry Orchard Choppers in -20?

Postby alanjh595 » Feb 13th, 2021, 1:20 pm

ferri wrote:I live near a cherry orchard, they have wind machines, and none of them have been running. I have no idea why choppers would be flying over unless they were fertilizing? That's all I've got.


THAT is a very reasonable explanation, as I have seen some tractor spraying. I never thought about it until now.

The heli's can spray from the top down as the tractors can spray from the bottom up.

That makes sense now.
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Re: Cherry Orchard Choppers in -20?

Postby common_sense_guy » Feb 13th, 2021, 3:29 pm

just_browsing wrote:Ok, I can see the rationale behind drying the cherries but tell me the science behind helicopters blowing -20 air around cherry trees? Does it make sure that they get destroyed for insurance purposes?

An insanely disruptive strategy during the summer months is now all year round?

I'm always curious why people choose to ask an internet forum when they know they're going to get 10 different answers instead of Googling it themselves.
You don't learn when you are talking. You can only learn while you're listening.

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Re: Cherry Orchard Choppers in -20?

Postby Terris » Feb 13th, 2021, 3:50 pm

As usual... Some clarity required...

LANDM wrote:
Brushy Bill wrote:Those are the cherries destined for export to the Chinese market right ?
Owned by foreign investors? Maintained by tfw's ?
mmm fresh cherries .....


No, these are cherries grown locally and sold to whomever they can get the best prices.
Owned locally.
Maintained by whomever the local growers can get, looking at local labour first and, when that is unavailable, getting seasonal agricultural workers.

http://www.cherries.global/cherries.html

$30 million+ per year currently being processed by BC Tree Fruits at their Vaughn St. plant next to Sun Rype...

Main competition for the Jealous Fruits consortium...
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Re: Cherry Orchard Choppers in -20?

Postby LANDM » Feb 13th, 2021, 4:49 pm

just_browsing wrote:
LANDM wrote:
You are confusing the definition of "frost".
Frost, in the context of the discussion here, is below freezing temperatures that can harm the trees, buds, blossoms, etc.
It has nothing to do with the humidity.
Frost=below freezing.


No actually frost doesn't occur all the time it drops below zero. It's directly related to the dew point!


Which is why I specifically said, "for the context of discussion here".

We are not talking about the normal definition of frost. We are talking about freezing temperature damage of tree tissue. It isn’t really specifically a classic "frost" issue and has little to do with water crystal formation.

You are speaking accurately. When farmers speak of frost, they are not speaking accurately, they are speaking notionally of the temperatures which cause damage.
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Re: Cherry Orchard Choppers in -20?

Postby LANDM » Feb 13th, 2021, 4:53 pm

LANDM wrote:
Brushy Bill wrote:Those are the cherries destined for export to the Chinese market right ?
Owned by foreign investors? Maintained by tfw's ?
mmm fresh cherries .....


No, these are cherries grown locally and sold to whomever they can get the best prices.
Owned locally.
Maintained by whomever the local growers can get, looking at local labour first and, when that is unavailable, getting seasonal agricultural workers.

Terris wrote:As usual... Some clarity required...
http://www.cherries.global/cherries.html
$30 million+ per year currently being processed by BC Tree Fruits at their Vaughn St. plant next to Sun Rype...
Main competition for the Jealous Fruits consortium...


I’m not sure of the point and what you were adding for clarity?
Sutherland also markets fruit for other growers. There are a few entities that do this. What was unclear?
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Re: Cherry Orchard Choppers in -20?

Postby 60-YEARS-in-Ktown » Feb 13th, 2021, 5:21 pm

I think it's not a matter of how cold, so much as how long its cold at one time before damage occurs.
If they can change that amount if time, it gives them a chance..

We get minus 20 most years, , if that would damage them in one night , we would not be growing many cherries...
I'd like to help You OUT,
Which way did You come in??

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Re: Cherry Orchard Choppers in -20?

Postby forum » Feb 13th, 2021, 6:57 pm

just_browsing wrote:Ok, I can see the rationale behind drying the cherries but tell me the science behind helicopters blowing -20 air around cherry trees? Does it make sure that they get destroyed for insurance purposes?

An insanely disruptive strategy during the summer months is now all year round?


Why don't you ask the farmers that pay for the expense of the helicopter?
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Re: Cherry Orchard Choppers in -20?

Postby bob vernon » Feb 13th, 2021, 11:21 pm

It's amazing how many genius physicists come out on here. If it is -20C at the ground level, is it also -20C at the top of the trees? How about 25 metres above the tops of the trees?
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Re: Cherry Orchard Choppers in -20?

Postby Glacier » Feb 14th, 2021, 1:21 am

bob vernon wrote:It's amazing how many genius physicists come out on here. If it is -20C at the ground level, is it also -20C at the top of the trees? How about 25 metres above the tops of the trees?

In Fairbanks, Alaska the inversions are often so strong that the temperature rises 10 degrees every 100m rise in elevation. Often it's far more extreme than that. Kelowna gets shorter nights so the inversions aren't quite as strong but they still happen every night there is little or no wind, even in Summer.

If you stir up the air, you can cause the air temperature at tree height to rise from -20 to -15. That can greatly reduce the amount of tree damage.

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