Crane collapse downtown

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alanjh595
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Re: Crane collapse downtown

Post by alanjh595 »

Anonymous123 wrote: Jul 20th, 2021, 3:37 pm
alanjh595 wrote: Jul 20th, 2021, 12:04 pm We have "WorksafeBC" providing regular inspections, daily on site safety meetings every morning, a reporting system for all employees to provide information that MUST be recorded in a log book of ANY safety concerns, anonymous tip lines directly to WorksafeBC, 1st Aid/safety representatives on every job site.

If anyone, at any time, had any concern whatsoever, there are so many different avenues that they could have taken to report their concerns.

Why didn't anyone do this?

Because they didn't see any problem to report.

This was a freak accident.
Human error.
Maybe.....we will have to wait until the expert investigators have concluded their assessment. I am Interested as to what the outcome will be, and I will wait patiently for the results.
Until then, I will not pass judgement.
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Urban Cowboy
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Re: Crane collapse downtown

Post by Urban Cowboy »

alanjh595 wrote: Jul 20th, 2021, 12:04 pm We have "WorksafeBC" providing regular inspections, daily on site safety meetings every morning, a reporting system for all employees to provide information that MUST be recorded in a log book of ANY safety concerns, anonymous tip lines directly to WorksafeBC, 1st Aid/safety representatives on every job site.

If anyone, at any time, had any concern whatsoever, there are so many different avenues that they could have taken to report their concerns.

Why didn't anyone do this?

Because they didn't see any problem to report.

This was a freak accident.
If you really believe this was a freak accident, you should go back to page one and look at the three camera captures that Troy posted.

First one all looks normal, second one the jib that is supposed to be level, is at about a 45° angle which strongly indicates a loss of balance which is crucial during disassembly, then third picture it's gone. The location of the trolley and the weight it's holding would dictate whether the jib is balanced or not.

Look at where the trolley is in the first photo where all is normal, then compare it to the second photo and you'll note it's very close to the cab causing the counter weight to flip the jib up.

The only way this would be a freak accident is if the trolley started moving on its own. Not saying that couldn't happen, but it is a new crane, from a highly respected manufacturer.
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MAPearce
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Re: Crane collapse downtown

Post by MAPearce »

Idon't believe that this was a freak accident either ... BUT out of respect for the families involved , I hope the report is never made public ..

Just like the Tolko tug "accident" , the families don't need the smear in a time of great loss ....
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alanjh595
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Re: Crane collapse downtown

Post by alanjh595 »

I will wait for the completion of the accident report before passing blame on anyone.

At least I have an open mind and am willing to accept the results from the professional investigators.
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Liquidnails
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Re: Crane collapse downtown

Post by Liquidnails »

The purpose of the investigation and report is not to place blame, but to find out what happened and why, and how it can be prevented from happening again. It absolutely should be public.
Scrobins94
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Re: Crane collapse downtown

Post by Scrobins94 »

alanjh595 wrote: Jul 20th, 2021, 12:04 pm We have "WorksafeBC" providing regular inspections, daily on site safety meetings every morning, a reporting system for all employees to provide information that MUST be recorded in a log book of ANY safety concerns, anonymous tip lines directly to WorksafeBC, 1st Aid/safety representatives on every job site.

If anyone, at any time, had any concern whatsoever, there are so many different avenues that they could have taken to report their concerns.

Why didn't anyone do this?

Because they didn't see any problem to report.

This was a freak accident.
Freak accident? More like negligence and posting on the gram instead of focusing on the task at hand. Why did MG not do something about this earlier? Other people have noted that a lot of these social media posts of crane operations were known to MG.
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60-YEARS-in-Ktown
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Re: Crane collapse downtown

Post by 60-YEARS-in-Ktown »

Urban Cowboy wrote: Jul 20th, 2021, 4:44 pm
alanjh595 wrote: Jul 20th, 2021, 12:04 pm We have "WorksafeBC" providing regular inspections, daily on site safety meetings every morning, a reporting system for all employees to provide information that MUST be recorded in a log book of ANY safety concerns, anonymous tip lines directly to WorksafeBC, 1st Aid/safety representatives on every job site.

If anyone, at any time, had any concern whatsoever, there are so many different avenues that they could have taken to report their concerns.

Why didn't anyone do this?

Because they didn't see any problem to report.

This was a freak accident.
If you really believe this was a freak accident, you should go back to page one and look at the three camera captures that Troy posted.

First one all looks normal, second one the jib that is supposed to be level, is at about a 45° angle which strongly indicates a loss of balance which is crucial during disassembly, then third picture it's gone. The location of the trolley and the weight it's holding would dictate whether the jib is balanced or not.

Look at where the trolley is in the first photo where all is normal, then compare it to the second photo and you'll note it's very close to the cab causing the counter weight to flip the jib up.

The only way this would be a freak accident is if the trolley started moving on its own. Not saying that couldn't happen, but it is a new crane, from a highly respected manufacturer.
My feeling,and I am not saying this is what happened, there are other things that would have a similar effect, more than one.
Like a pin or pivot breaking.. and anchor for the lift or trolley cables .... a support bar or truss pin breaking... a few things could have failed. The breakage of one small part can lead to momentary increase in load to other components. This in some cases can lead multiple failures in rapid succession..... and bring a structure down..
Bottom line.. I and most of us DONT KNOW what happened......... myself, I am good with letting the investigators work out what happened. .. :smt045
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nucksRnum1
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Re: Crane collapse downtown

Post by nucksRnum1 »

Even with shudda - wuddah - cuddah scenarios......are people trying to say that the obvious lack of safety culture is just thrown out with the bathwater? You would have to be blind not to see the obvious things like PPE etc. You would have to write up a fall protection plan. If that plan was mailed in and exactly the same garble as day 1 - is that irrelevant?
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alanjh595
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Re: Crane collapse downtown

Post by alanjh595 »

60-YEARS-in-Ktown wrote: Jul 20th, 2021, 9:13 pm
Urban Cowboy wrote: Jul 20th, 2021, 4:44 pm

If you really believe this was a freak accident, you should go back to page one and look at the three camera captures that Troy posted.

First one all looks normal, second one the jib that is supposed to be level, is at about a 45° angle which strongly indicates a loss of balance which is crucial during disassembly, then third picture it's gone. The location of the trolley and the weight it's holding would dictate whether the jib is balanced or not.

Look at where the trolley is in the first photo where all is normal, then compare it to the second photo and you'll note it's very close to the cab causing the counter weight to flip the jib up.

The only way this would be a freak accident is if the trolley started moving on its own. Not saying that couldn't happen, but it is a new crane, from a highly respected manufacturer.
My feeling,and I am not saying this is what happened, there are other things that would have a similar effect, more than one.
Like a pin or pivot breaking.. and anchor for the lift or trolley cables .... a support bar or truss pin breaking... a few things could have failed. The breakage of one small part can lead to momentary increase in load to other components. This in some cases can lead multiple failures in rapid succession..... and bring a structure down..
Bottom line.. I and most of us DONT KNOW what happened......... myself, I am good with letting the investigators work out what happened. .. :smt045
:up: :up: :up: \ 5
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Tankur
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Re: Crane collapse downtown

Post by Tankur »

More speculation. My wife’s co worker who lives and works in the area was by the site right after and noticed a man frantically yelling it was all his fault he forgot something about a bolt up there. Hopefully that comes out..
Trixster
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Re: Crane collapse downtown

Post by Trixster »

Tankur wrote: Jul 21st, 2021, 5:58 am More speculation. My wife’s co worker who lives and works in the area was by the site right after and noticed a man frantically yelling it was all his fault he forgot something about a bolt up there. Hopefully that comes out..
I find this hard to believe!
bob vernon
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Re: Crane collapse downtown

Post by bob vernon »

A workplace that is safe is the result of a "culture of safety" where the rules are followed. A workplace that isn't safe is the result of bending and breaking basic rules to save time and it results in a bad culture. Once the investigation by the province is complete we'll know which one this company falls into. I think that we'll see the province really tighten up regulation of these cranes and their operation.
mullyman
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Re: Crane collapse downtown

Post by mullyman »

Trixster wrote: Jul 21st, 2021, 6:32 am
Tankur wrote: Jul 21st, 2021, 5:58 am More speculation. My wife’s co worker who lives and works in the area was by the site right after and noticed a man frantically yelling it was all his fault he forgot something about a bolt up there. Hopefully that comes out..
I find this hard to believe!
why? it happens all the time...
mullyman
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Re: Crane collapse downtown

Post by mullyman »

MAPearce wrote: Jul 20th, 2021, 5:13 pm Idon't believe that this was a freak accident either ... BUT out of respect for the families involved , I hope the report is never made public ..

Just like the Tolko tug "accident" , the families don't need the smear in a time of great loss ....
but... we need to try to learn from others mistakes... so the likely hood of reoccurrence is minimilized
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Re: Crane collapse downtown

Post by Even Steven »

There are no freak accidents. Things don't just happen. Somebody did something wrong, somebody did not check something, and the incident was the net result of all the little things or one big thing.

There's always a cause.

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