Homeless on the streets

[buttreyphillips]

Just read the report on Castanet of the 297 homeless people counted in Kelowna out of which 169 had mental issues. Everyone sugar foots around the issue on how to fix it not wanting to infringe on people's rights. Ok everyone has rights but it seems to me the focus and energy and money is mostly spent in a non productive way on the homeless and it's just not working. The poor business owners that have to put up with the danger and the destruction to their business etc. You all know what I mean right...Well they have rights as well that really are not being addressed. I think that much of what we have now is almost unfixable and, I believe, wouldn't change until we bring back the institutions that they shut down many years ago that looked after the people that we now see on our streets. I really think that in the big picture we need to find sites in each city away from the downtown area and build a large building where all the services that are needed are all under one roof. Doctors, nurses, security staff, addiction councilors, individual rooms, common area, learning center, hobby area, a way for them to create perhaps something that could be sold. Allow them to earn their own money and build up self esteem. Maybe I'm dreaming but I personally see this as the only solution to helping them and at the same time giving peace back to the business owners and patrons and people of Kelowna etc. that are tax paying citizens to strive to live in this beautiful area. We have to look after both types for the good of all. It would be a huge undertaking but somewhere alone the line we have to bite the bullet and just do this and in the long run it could start to make a difference. As it is now someone overdoses, they are brought to the hospital and brought back and then released back onto the streets to do it again. How many resources are given without anything changing. The law may have to change that it is not a volunteer thing to ask them if they would like to go to this center but that they are taken there and have to work their way out by getting better.

https://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/3 ... ets#357990

[the truth]

https://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/3 ... ur-streets agree with you 100%

lh is clueless as to what to do,they have zero reason to want to fix the problem, it keeps all of the IH pencil pushers working,

[firsttimecaller]

https://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/3 ... ets#357990

I don't mean to make this about the "pandemic", because it's not. However, we have recently seen that our Provincial Health Officer has the power to pressure perfectly healthy people into doing things they would otherwise not normally do.

Could the same powers not be used to pressure people who are actually causing our communities a great deal of harm but get away with it under the guise that they have mental health issues? If these people have health problems that are causing serious disruptions to the rest of us, why can't the powers that be implement measures that force them into treatment?

Seems like there is a double standard going on.

[spooker]

Of course it will succeed when we force people to do something they don't want to do ... sounds like a great idea!

We'd want to be forced into rehab if we were in that position ... right?

(page 48) Clients who received involuntary treatment were 2.2 times as likely to die of opioid‐related overdoses and 1.9 times as likely to die of any cause compared to those with a history of voluntary treatment only.

https://www.mass.gov/files/documents/20 ... report.pdf

Another 2016 study published in the International Journal of Drug Policy found little evidence that mandatory drug treatment helps people stop using drugs or reduces criminal recidivism.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 5915003588

Since I got the sarcasm out of my system now I can call this out as BS ... "protecting" the businesses or "regular" people is a lousy reason to force people to do something they wouldn't do on their own ... you're othering people so you can live with yourself ... shoving people to the outside of "normal" society is exactly the wrong thing do, people will only respond in worse ways to bad treatment ...

Many people have gotten lucky and avoided rock-bottom but more are not getting so lucky and are ending up rough ... these days it could be as easily you or I ... don't kid yourself that you are where you are by self-determination only ... having the opportunity and then being able to make the decision to take the opportunity could have just as easily gone the wrong direction ...

Do I have a perfect solution, no ... but I am tired of seeing people talk about "lock 'em up" without having an f'in clue as to what life is like or could be like in that position ... I want to support people who are trying to find a better solution ... everyone is human and deserves the same rights, just because you have money in your wallet on a regular basis shouldn't determine how you are treated ...

[mexi cali]

It's interesting that there are an estimated 297 homeless people in Kelowna right now when back in 2006, I seem to remember the number as being around 250, give or take.

[youjustcomplain]

https://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/3 ... ets#357990

I don't mean to make this about the "pandemic", because it's not. However, we have recently seen that our Provincial Health Officer has the power to pressure perfectly healthy people into doing things they would otherwise not normally do.

No, you do mean to make this about the pandemic and you can drop the quotes. We are still in a world wide pandemic where people are dying daily, not only in the less cared about 3rd world countries, but here at home too.

The provincial health officer applies pressure to get vaccinated and to wear masks. Applying pressure to do these things does NOT infringe on our rights. You have every right to ignore the request to get vaccinated; many people have done just that for a variety of reasons.

However, applying pressure on drug addicts will not work. There is no double standard here. What do you even suggest? IH is going to walk up to a homeless person and strongly suggest they stop injecting themselves with their drug of choice? Please, be serious for a minute.

Dr Carey:
"I've never yet met a client in the thousands I've treated who ever wanted, ever, to be dependent on a substance they are struggling with."

Is that not clear evidence that drug addicts aren't addicts by choice? If the underlying issues that lead them to drug addiction could be removed, they would be. That, I suspect, is more what IH is attempting to address. Strongly urging people to not do drugs is the prevention campaign that has been going on since I was a kid. It works, just not %100 of the time.

[youjustcomplain]

https://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/3 ... ur-streets agree with you 100%

lh is clueless as to what to do,they have zero reason to want to fix the problem, it keeps all of the IH pencil pushers working,

Your comment is ignorant of all things related to drug addition, mental health and IH priorities.

What you have is your experience as it affects you, but seem to have no understanding of what it is to be someone else.

Do you think that the RCMP should just be rounding up drug addicts because of their addition and society should be ok with forcing rehab treatment on them? Honest question. I don't want to put words in your mouth. But if we're going to be ok with that as a society, then I'm guessing you're on board with mandatory treatments for anything, including vaccinations as government see's fit.

[common_sense_guy]

Just need to rewrite some laws on vagrancy and public urination and things like that so they have some teeth to enforce something. Then if they break the rules they know what consequences are in place and then we can force them to do whatever like get rehab. If they choose not to then they are banned from the city and let them move on to the next one.

But as long as drug addiction is rampid not even that is going to work with drug addicts. The addiction is too strong to care about consequences. At that point it should be forced rehab or boot them out.

[the truth]

https://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/3 ... ets#357990

I don't mean to make this about the "pandemic", because it's not. However, we have recently seen that our Provincial Health Officer has the power to pressure perfectly healthy people into doing things they would otherwise not normally do.

Could the same powers not be used to pressure people who are actually causing our communities a great deal of harm but get away with it under the guise that they have mental health issues? If these people have health problems that are causing serious disruptions to the rest of us, why can't the powers that be implement measures that force them into treatment?

Seems like there is a double standard going on.

great point, problem is junkies do not follow the law, any law

[youjustcomplain]

Just read the report on Castanet of the 297 homeless people counted in Kelowna out of which 169 had mental issues.

297 were counted as identifying as being homeless in Kelowna. They may have been couch surfers, the may have been living in the woods off mission creek park, they may have been sleeping on the street downtown, and I'm sure there is a long list of "other" to those examples.
169 were not listed as having mental issues as you put it. It was 196 and they were reported as having complex needs.

Are you trying to simplify "complex needs" into "people with mental issues" ? If that is the only meaning of Complex Needs, then that's the first time I've heard that.

Everyone sugar foots around the issue on how to fix it not wanting to infringe on people's rights.

No, as Canadians, I think we all want to retain our rights as individuals. That extends to our right to not have government force health treatments on us. Dr Carey explained the criteria required to enact the Mental Health Act and arrest people. I don't think anyone is trying to "sugar foot" around wanting to keep us free in society. With the freedom we want, comes other peoples freedom to choose what they want.

I agree %100 on institutions though. If we had more open beds for people who want help, they wouldn't need to wait so long for the bed. How many stories have we heard/read about people who tried to get help for their addiction and we put on a lengthy wait list. We only hear about it when the person dies while on that waitlist. But how often does it happen when nobody tells the story to a reporter? How many addicts die without their story being told? Imo, open more facilities, make space to help these people get back to their lives.

The law may have to change that it is not a volunteer thing to ask them if they would like to go to this center but that they are taken there and have to work their way out by getting better.

Are you suggesting change the law to allow government/law enforcement be able to force people into treatment against their will? Slippery slope. Doing so would give power to government and take it from the individual. This is not something most Canadians would want, despite the fact that many would like to see changes to treatment for mental health and drug additions

[mexi cali]

Do you think that the RCMP should just be rounding up drug addicts because of their addition and society should be ok with forcing rehab treatment on them?

Worth a try. Waiting for them to do it themselves hasn't worked very well.

You talk about rights as though they are absolute. I don't believe that they should be because I think that at some point, when lines are crossed like committing crimes for example, rights are forfeited and then the state gets to step in and take whatever steps are necessary to ensure the safety of the people (us) who are victimized by those who cannot make good choices for themselves. How is that a problem?

[mexi cali]

"We need you to come with us where we can enroll you in a detox program that will slowly remove you from the dependency on the drugs you have been using".

"No, no. no. I want to continue to live hard with my buddies. We have lots of stuff we can steal to keep us high. Everyone has so much, why is it a big deal for us to to take just a little so we can live like we want to'? "I am a Canadian citizen! I have rights! You can't tell me what to do! Last time I checked, this was a free country! You have no right!"

"Ok, ok ok. You're right. Sorry to have bothered you".

[Jonrox]

Are some of you actually under the impression there are enough spaces in rehab and detox facilities for the folks you want to force into them? There's not enough even remotely enough space for folks who willingly want to go. The waitlist for folks who want to go is generally at least several months... and yet you want to steal spots away from these folks who want to get better and give them to people who don't want to be there.

On top of this, there aren't nearly enough highly-skilled folks to staff the facilities as it is. Where do you plan on finding the people to run the facilities to a level that will result in a chance at successful rehabilitation?

It's so blatantly obvious that many of you have been fortunate enough to not have folks close to you (or you yourselves) who have needed this kind of help. It's currently in a disastrous situation and your suggestions are incredibly naive and short-sighted.

[YzzzR1]

Worth a try. Waiting for them to do it themselves hasn't worked very well.

You talk about rights as though they are absolute. I don't believe that they should be because I think that at some point, when lines are crossed like committing crimes for example, rights are forfeited and then the state gets to step in and take whatever steps are necessary to ensure the safety of the people (us) who are victimized by those who cannot make good choices for themselves. How is that a problem?

As been said a thousand or more times....it's not about actually doing the right thing (for society), it's about been seen doing something (no matter how ineffectual).

[W105]

Are some of you actually under the impression there are enough spaces in rehab and detox facilities for the folks you want to force into them? There's not enough even remotely enough space for folks who willingly want to go. The waitlist for folks who want to go is generally at least several months... and yet you want to steal spots away from these folks who want to get better and give them to people who don't want to be there.

On top of this, there aren't nearly enough highly-skilled folks to staff the facilities as it is. Where do you plan on finding the people to run the facilities to a level that will result in a chance at successful rehabilitation?

It's so blatantly obvious that many of you have been fortunate enough to not have folks close to you (or you yourselves) who have needed this kind of help. It's currently in a disastrous situation and your suggestions are incredibly naive and short-sighted.

^^ yup and it's pathetic and getting worse..treatment/rehab is the last thing the Government wants to do ( it will stop the drug addiction money maker) too bloody bad they didn't spend the money that they have on covid on our Drug Crisis problem eh ?? $50 million on 5 wet facilities that are literally run by drug addicts...pfft..