Everyone deserves a home.

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normaM
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Re: Everyone deserves a home.

Post by normaM »

^^^ that is why the thread title should be changed.
But a Q, how many times should they be provided secure shelter? If they trash it do they get another?
btw, some of the illegal suites I see advertised are not looking very safe nor secure
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spooker
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Re: Everyone deserves a home.

Post by spooker »

Grandan wrote: Nov 22nd, 2023, 10:05 am
Bsuds wrote: Nov 21st, 2023, 3:59 pm I disagree with the topic title.

Everyone does not "Deserve" a home.

I would agree with everyone deserves a safe place to shelter.
The topic posted by me referenced a letter with that title. From what I can see that original letter has been withdrawn. If anyone can find it please let me know.
It's right here:
https://www.castanet.net/news/Letters/4 ... ves-a-home
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spooker
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Re: Everyone deserves a home.

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Part of the reason that there are so many living in tents is because "shelters" are not safe ... and then there is also the saying "home is where the heart is" ...

Trying to be pedantic and change the argument into something about the definition of "home" vs "secure shelter" is a distraction from the fact that people need a safe place to call home, whatever that definition of "home" is for them ...

People cannot work on the issues they are facing when they're stressed about where they can close their eyes at night ...
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DarbyD
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Re: Everyone deserves a home.

Post by DarbyD »

Yes, that is always a problem with shelters, there can be a criminal and predatory element which the Shelter tries to monitor. Last year, when it got really cold, the Shelter director said they had a bit of a problem because the ones still left camping were the ones they had previously banned from the shelter because of disruptive behaviour. Also others still camping did not want to have any rules.
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Glacier
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Re: Everyone deserves a home.

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Grandan wrote: Nov 19th, 2023, 10:48 am I bought my first house in Victoria in 1975. It was in such poor condition that I was unable to obtain a bank loan. I borrowed the down payment. I worked at a blue collar job and my wife worked part time. We had two young children. We both rode our bicycles to work.
There was no proper foundation, the reason the bank turned us down. Water was heated by an oil fired cook stove. There was no washer and dryer let alone a place to hook them up. There was no insulation in the walls or ceiling. The electrical was a 30 amp fuse box.
We slaved to fix that house up, mostly with paint and improvements in the garden.
At the time it was literally the cheapest house on a freehold lot that we could find. If not for all those conditions we would have been priced out of the market.
Does everyone actually deserve a home?

https://www.castanet.net/edition/news-story--10-.htm
When I was 6 we lived in a white canvas tent. Actually, I think we spent two winters in it. My parents squatted on crown land the 2nd year, and built a log cabin without electricity or running water that cost almost nothing to build. They did all the work themselves. My mom still lives in that house today, though there is now a well and electricity on the property. The government asked her to survey and purchase the land after awhile, which she did for like $15,000.

There is no way the bleeding hearts would let someone live like that today. They'd say everyone has a human right to live in a house that at least costs $200,000 to build. And of course, tax payers who are barely paying their own mortgages are asked to provide the funds.
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Re: Everyone deserves a home.

Post by Grandan »

normaM wrote: Nov 22nd, 2023, 10:12 am I see we have so far avoided the " walked in school 10 miles in a snowstorm, uphills both ways" lecture ( yet)
We bought a house that had been foreclosed on, bank tired of dealing with it. Tenants had done major damage. My Mommy thought we were drunk or stoned when we bought it ( it was that bad) but a really fine house. Worked on it every evening after work, every weekend.

When it was done it was a featured house of the Month in the paper ( we were so proud( The hard work paid off, sold it for a nice profit, used that to get our next, and I gotta say posh house
My wife cried when we bought our house on Benvoulin @Hwy 97. It was about 1/3 of the size that we had moved out of in a northern community. It was a private sale and we only qualified for bank financing after asking for a raise. I wired, insulated and drywalled the attic, just enough for 3 kids and the baby slept in our room. The main advantage was it was close to the Orchard Park mall for shopping and had a 3/8 acre lot.
It took 15 years before we could sell for development but we got what was then the highest price paid for a lot of that size in Kelowna.
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wascobi
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Re: Everyone deserves a home.

Post by wascobi »

my first house, bought privately in 1984, was $64K. the people basically wrote a letter saying I paid more than that to show sufficient down payment. it was a tough go . my union pay checks were $600 every two weeks. the mortgage payment was well over one pay check thanks to the 13% interest at the time. it was a struggle. garage sale and thrift store furniture. if it wasn't for my GF working at the gas station, we would have starved!
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Re: Everyone deserves a home.

Post by rustled »

Lived in a one-room cabin with no running water for the first year of marriage. Got cold running water at the kitchen sink during the second. Still using the outhouse and heating water on the stove (wood in winter) for baths into the third year, washing diapers in the spin washer and drying them on the clothesline. We kept building on and eventually had functioning bathroom and separate rooms for sleeping in.

Every adult deserves the home they've been willing to work for. Today, there's a movement to take more from those who've worked to give homes to folk who haven't worked for them. It's unsustainable.
There is nothing more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity. - Martin Luther King Jr.
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Re: Everyone deserves a home.

Post by Grandan »

rustled wrote: Nov 23rd, 2023, 8:13 am Lived in a one-room cabin with no running water for the first year of marriage. Got cold running water at the kitchen sink during the second. Still using the outhouse and heating water on the stove (wood in winter) for baths into the third year, washing diapers in the spin washer and drying them on the clothesline. We kept building on and eventually had functioning bathroom and separate rooms for sleeping in.

Every adult deserves the home they've been willing to work for. Today, there's a movement to take more from those who've worked to give homes to folk who haven't worked for them. It's unsustainable.
I think that many people got their start in life in much the same way. My wife for instance, in childhood lost her house when her brother set fire to the fluff under a bed. That was a family of 9 kids that ended up squeezed into a 2 room shack with no running water or electricity. There was no outhouse, just a downed tree to sit on. Clothes were washed in a tub on a washboard and hung on trees. She quit school in grade 7 and left home in her teens and stayed in single room occupancy hotels and worked in minimum wage jobs. Best worker I have ever know because she knows how to hussle when she works. It her drive that got us to where we are in Kelowna today.
I don't know why there are so many indigent youth today. Was it because there were no demands put on them as youngsters? Were they pandered to and told how special they were? Never needed to do dishes or clean up their rooms? Or just allowed to do whatever they wanted with no consequence?
At the age of 8 I was required to do the family laundry in a wringer washer and hang it out on the clothes line.
We had to bring in the firewood for the wood burning furnace. I recall dragging wagons full of laundry to the laundromat. Later when we moved to a new town, i was dropped off at the laundromat to run the laundry through a dozen or so washers and then into the dryers and fold it all at the end.
Despite all my experience my wife won't let me near the laundry room, LOL.
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Re: Everyone deserves a home.

Post by Grandan »

spooker wrote: Nov 22nd, 2023, 11:42 am
Grandan wrote: Nov 22nd, 2023, 10:05 am
The topic posted by me referenced a letter with that title. From what I can see that original letter has been withdrawn. If anyone can find it please let me know.
It's right here:
https://www.castanet.net/news/Letters/4 ... ves-a-home
Thank you!
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spooker
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Re: Everyone deserves a home.

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Grandan wrote: Nov 23rd, 2023, 10:25 am I think that many people got their start in life in much the same way. My wife for instance, in childhood lost her house when her brother set fire to the fluff under a bed. That was a family of 9 kids that ended up squeezed into a 2 room shack with no running water or electricity. There was no outhouse, just a downed tree to sit on. Clothes were washed in a tub on a washboard and hung on trees. She quit school in grade 7 and left home in her teens and stayed in single room occupancy hotels and worked in minimum wage jobs. Best worker I have ever know because she knows how to hussle when she works. It her drive that got us to where we are in Kelowna today.
I don't know why there are so many indigent youth today. Was it because there were no demands put on them as youngsters? Were they pandered to and told how special they were? Never needed to do dishes or clean up their rooms? Or just allowed to do whatever they wanted with no consequence?
At the age of 8 I was required to do the family laundry in a wringer washer and hang it out on the clothes line.
We had to bring in the firewood for the wood burning furnace. I recall dragging wagons full of laundry to the laundromat. Later when we moved to a new town, i was dropped off at the laundromat to run the laundry through a dozen or so washers and then into the dryers and fold it all at the end.
Despite all my experience my wife won't let me near the laundry room, LOL.
Maybe times change and what worked even 20 years ago doesn't work today ... the 70s were pretty cool and the hair was let down quite a bit but opportunities are not even close to the same now ... idealizing what got people by back then and thinking that can still work is not realistic, it's just a way to make oneself feel better than another ...
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rustled
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Re: Everyone deserves a home.

Post by rustled »

Grandan wrote: Nov 23rd, 2023, 10:25 am
rustled wrote: Nov 23rd, 2023, 8:13 am Lived in a one-room cabin with no running water for the first year of marriage. Got cold running water at the kitchen sink during the second. Still using the outhouse and heating water on the stove (wood in winter) for baths into the third year, washing diapers in the spin washer and drying them on the clothesline. We kept building on and eventually had functioning bathroom and separate rooms for sleeping in.

Every adult deserves the home they've been willing to work for. Today, there's a movement to take more from those who've worked to give homes to folk who haven't worked for them. It's unsustainable.
I think that many people got their start in life in much the same way. My wife for instance, in childhood lost her house when her brother set fire to the fluff under a bed. That was a family of 9 kids that ended up squeezed into a 2 room shack with no running water or electricity. There was no outhouse, just a downed tree to sit on. Clothes were washed in a tub on a washboard and hung on trees. She quit school in grade 7 and left home in her teens and stayed in single room occupancy hotels and worked in minimum wage jobs. Best worker I have ever know because she knows how to hussle when she works. It her drive that got us to where we are in Kelowna today.
I don't know why there are so many indigent youth today. Was it because there were no demands put on them as youngsters? Were they pandered to and told how special they were? Never needed to do dishes or clean up their rooms? Or just allowed to do whatever they wanted with no consequence?
At the age of 8 I was required to do the family laundry in a wringer washer and hang it out on the clothes line.
We had to bring in the firewood for the wood burning furnace. I recall dragging wagons full of laundry to the laundromat. Later when we moved to a new town, i was dropped off at the laundromat to run the laundry through a dozen or so washers and then into the dryers and fold it all at the end.
Despite all my experience my wife won't let me near the laundry room, LOL.
Your wife's situation was more difficult than ours, but it sounds like you and I had similar childhoods - wringer washer, chopping wood, laundromat when necessary. Also hauled water from the creek. Today's kids spend more time in institutions (starting with daycare) than we did, less time pitching in to help the family.

Some of what we did growing up would be considered abuse or neglect today, but I think those of us who experienced it have a resilience that gets us through harder times and gave us more realistic expectations, and a better understanding of the effort that can be required to achieve a goal.

And having a home is a goal - not a given - and no other social model is sustainable over the long term.
There is nothing more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity. - Martin Luther King Jr.
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spooker
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Re: Everyone deserves a home.

Post by spooker »

rustled wrote: Nov 23rd, 2023, 10:59 am And having a home is a goal - not a given - and no other social model is sustainable over the long term.
So it shouldn't surprise anyone to have to live out of a tent in city park? We shouldn't worry about ever being safe since a "home" is never guaranteed?

I think the vagueness of the statements allow for a lot of interpretation ... but since someone has already achieved a "home" when it was more affordable and the dollar counted for more then it's up to everyone else to climb whatever the mountain height is anymore ...
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Grandan
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Re: Everyone deserves a home.

Post by Grandan »

spooker wrote: Nov 23rd, 2023, 12:46 pm
rustled wrote: Nov 23rd, 2023, 10:59 am And having a home is a goal - not a given - and no other social model is sustainable over the long term.
So it shouldn't surprise anyone to have to live out of a tent in city park? We shouldn't worry about ever being safe since a "home" is never guaranteed?

I think the vagueness of the statements allow for a lot of interpretation ... but since someone has already achieved a "home" when it was more affordable and the dollar counted for more then it's up to everyone else to climb whatever the mountain height is anymore ...
Lets get this straight, it was never easy to buy a home. Had we gone with a bank or mortgage broker when we bought our first home it would not have been possible because the banks were looking for an unencumbered down payment and a minimum income for which we did not qualify. We got a mortgage from the seller.
We bought a house that the bank rejected as too run down. We rented a much better townhouse before we bought our first house so it was a step down. We had no down payment, it was all borrowed money.
The government seems to believe that there is a minimum size of home and the banks pile on with requirements for everything from condition of roof to foundation and that keeps a lot of people out of the market.
With interest rates at an all time low a few years ago many people missed the boat and did not buy when they could have. Who's crying now?
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MAPearce
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Re: Everyone deserves a home.

Post by MAPearce »

Deserves equals EARNED ..

Obviously the meaning of the topic has strayed .
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