Deeper and deeper into debt...thanks Christy!

[lasnomadas]

It certainly is. It's deferred debt that our children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren will be paying. And if I sometimes make it personal, it's because it's the only defense against the most boorish remarks here.

[Veovis]

It certainly is. It's deferred debt that our children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren will be paying. And if I sometimes make it personal, it's because it's the only defense against the most boorish remarks here.

I assume you explain the same thing about your phone and cable bill agreements to your spouse right. You tell her before you ever get the service that you owe them $$$$ without recourse?

NO?

how odd.

[hobbyguy]

Yup, I have a contractual agreement for internet service. But it doesn't become debt because I pay the future obligations as they come due.

The ones that do become debt in a government sense are contractual obligations like the contracts for the fast ferries. That became debt, useless debt not offset by an asset value.

The new LNG powered ferries were a contractual obligation that became debt, but are offset by an asset value (minus depreciation).

The Island Highway was a contractual obligation that became debt, but is offset by an asset value.

The Bennett Bridge was a contractual obligation that became debt that is offset by an asset value.

But I DO understand why the NDP don't follow the differences, because with the exception of the Island Highway, if memory serves me correctly, the 1990s No Dang Plan party racked up a LOT of debt through operating deficit after operating deficit, shipping money to friends at Skeena Cellulose, cancelling Kemano etc. with NO offsetting asset value.

Not understanding about offsetting asset values, or simple contractual obligations that are planned (oh ya, I forgot - No Dang Plan) into operating budgets (oh, ya I forgot no costing or taxation plan or budget in the NDP platform) is why the NDP ideologues can not possibly put forward good governance. All that math! Oh my, lets give it to Bicycle Gregor to figure out, or the BCUC, or we will strike a commission, anybody but the ones who want to govern - but have No Dang Plan because math is too haaaard!

I can understand why folks wanted to pull a little left of center and improve social programs. Especially when they see lavish government spending in Alberta, Newfoundland and Ontario. But you can't follow their models and worry about debt and deficits. They are awash in them, and it ain't getting much better.

The problem is the NDP are not a little left, and they don't have a clue how to run a government. If they did, they would have costed their platform, put forward a taxation plan, and a budget. The Greens did. If the tiny Green party could, why not the NDP? The only conclusion is that they don't know how to plan. A failure to plan is a plan to fail.

[Urban Cowboy]

It certainly is. It's deferred debt that our children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren will be paying. And if I sometimes make it personal, it's because it's the only defense against the most boorish remarks here.

It most certainly is NOT because you have not reached the time frame where you get that service, thus owe it.

You don't count a cable bill ten years down the road as debt. You may well have switched suppliers, or decided to go with a satellite dish by then.

Do you also count your future groceries as debt too?

It's really making sense now why the lot of you are so hard to reason with.

You lack the capacity to think rationally, and twist every possible detail you can to suit your end game.

Debt is money you HAVE spent, not money you might spend ten years down the road.

You buy a car on payments it's a debt, because you possess the vehicle and owe the seller its full price.

You might buy a car in two years, or agreed to, is not a debt, not until the car is in your hands.

[Urban Cowboy]

Duplicate.

[lasnomadas]

@hobbyguy:
Now that you've so inanely chosen the acronym 'NDP' to mean 'No Dang Plan', I suppose we can agree on 'BCLP' to denote 'British Columbia Liars Party'.

As usual, your lengthy rant makes no difference to the facts of the matter. In this case, the fact is that contractual obligations are deferred debt, pure and simple. There is absolutely no successful way to spin this inconvenient truth. The contracts have been signed, the work will be done, and the contractors will be paid (unless, of course, the contracts can be cancelled without penalty). Oh, and Site C isn't even close to being near the point of no return. Harry Swain, former chair of fthe JRP estimates the costs incurred so far are about $2 billion. Even if the total costs on completion are $8.8 billion (highly unlikely when you look at the track record of BCLP cost overruns), it will be several years before they're 'past the point of no return'.

Both you and Old Techie need to look up the word 'deferred' in a dictionary.

[Urban Cowboy]

@hobbyguy:
Now that you've so inanely chosen the acronym 'NDP' to mean 'No Dang Plan', I suppose we can agree on 'BCLP' to denote 'British Columbia Liars Party'.

As usual, your lengthy rant makes no difference to the facts of the matter. In this case, the fact is that contractual obligations are deferred debt, pure and simple. There is absolutely no successful way to spin this inconvenient truth. The contracts have been signed, the work will be done, and the contractors will be paid (unless, of course, the contracts can be cancelled without penalty). Oh, and Site C isn't even close to being near the point of no return. Harry Swain, former chair of fthe JRP estimates the costs incurred so far are about $2 billion. Even if the total costs on completion are $8.8 billion (highly unlikely when you look at the track record of BCLP cost overruns), it will be several years before they're 'past the point of no return'.

Both you and Old Techie need to look up the word 'deferred' in a dictionary.

Well I guess your lifetime food supply, shelter, transportation, utilities, clothing, and burial, are all deferred debt.

If you're going to pretend to be an accountant at least take some classes!

[hobbyguy]

las - yes, a little creative comeback at the NDP and their disrespectful anti - Christy attack platform.

You must agree though, the NDP did NOT cost their platform, they did NOT offer a taxation plan, they did NOT offer a budgeting of their platform. I guess the excuse is? "The dog ate my homework". "I could not find an organic pencil". or maybe just "Huh? Is that due TODAY? OMG"

Either way, the NDP did NOT offer a plan. To me, that is like applying for a job with no resume ready to go. Hence No Dang Plan.

Surely the BCTF should give the NDP an F for that, oh wait, we can't fail little Johnny Horgan - so we will give him an I for incomplete. So maybe old school FDP or new school IDP?

Sure isn't anything "New" about the BC NDP and their failure to plan. Incomplete Democratic Party - has a nice ring eh?

[Urban Cowboy]

Sure isn't anything "New" about the BC NDP and their failure to plan. Incomplete Democratic Party - has a nice ring eh?

I like that a lot, and another word that begins with "I" comes to mind too.

[mr.bandaid]

las - yes, a little creative comeback at the NDP and their disrespectful anti - Christy attack platform.

You must agree though, the NDP did NOT cost their platform, they did NOT offer a taxation plan, they did NOT offer a budgeting of their platform. I guess the excuse is? "The dog ate my homework". "I could not find an organic pencil". or maybe just "Huh? Is that due TODAY? OMG"

Either way, the NDP did NOT offer a plan. To me, that is like applying for a job with no resume ready to go. Hence No Dang Plan.

Surely the BCTF should give the NDP an F for that, oh wait, we can't fail little Johnny Horgan - so we will give him an I for incomplete. So maybe old school FDP or new school IDP?

Sure isn't anything "New" about the BC NDP and their failure to plan. Incomplete Democratic Party - has a nice ring eh?

Not that I am a big NDP/Green fan but I would suggest that after 16 years of the Liberals and a lot of real unknowns, it seems to me to be prudent of them to not make a plan until they see what is left in the piggy bank. I hope I am wrong but I think we may all be surprised.

[flamingfingers]

^Especially when Horgan calls for a forensic audit of Hydro, ICBC and BC Ferries!

[rustled]

las - yes, a little creative comeback at the NDP and their disrespectful anti - Christy attack platform.

You must agree though, the NDP did NOT cost their platform, they did NOT offer a taxation plan, they did NOT offer a budgeting of their platform. I guess the excuse is? "The dog ate my homework". "I could not find an organic pencil". or maybe just "Huh? Is that due TODAY? OMG"

Either way, the NDP did NOT offer a plan. To me, that is like applying for a job with no resume ready to go. Hence No Dang Plan.

Surely the BCTF should give the NDP an F for that, oh wait, we can't fail little Johnny Horgan - so we will give him an I for incomplete. So maybe old school FDP or new school IDP?

Sure isn't anything "New" about the BC NDP and their failure to plan. Incomplete Democratic Party - has a nice ring eh?

Not that I am a big NDP/Green fan but I would suggest that after 16 years of the Liberals and a lot of real unknowns, it seems to me to be prudent of them to not make a plan until they see what is left in the piggy bank. I hope I am wrong but I think we may all be surprised.

Sensible people would have taken time to draft up something, explaining the contingencies. "If the Liberals have left us anything to work with, we'll do this. If they've left us nothing, we'll do this. If the debt's beyond X, this is the plan."

But hey, that'd be asking a lot, wouldn't it? I mean, surely we don't need a government that has some kind of back-up plan in case things don't go as expected, like when a predicted LNG boom doesn't happen, do we?

[lasnomadas]

@hobbyguy;
You sure do have a knack for evading an issue. You failed in your first rebuttal of my statement that contractual obligations are deferred debt, then refused to even make a second attempt. Instead, all you had to offer was the usual NDP bashing rant. But somehow, 'Hapless Horgan' pales in comparison to 'Corrupt Christy', don't you think?

@rustled:
So, what was Christy's Plan B when her LNG boom blew up in her face?

[rustled]

...@rustled:
So, what was Christy's Plan B when her LNG boom blew up in her face?

Beats me. It would be sensible to expect her to have one, though.

Just as I'd expect Horgan to have a plan. At least a Plan A, with a few contingencies for the pesky unpredictable stuff that happens. Heck, y'all are predicting the cupboard's worse than bare. He could plan for that, couldn't he?

If you figure it'd be too hard for him to come up with anything, perhaps you have reasons for setting the bar so low?

[lasnomadas]

Unlike others on this site, I don't waste a lot of time worrying about how much of our tax dollars are left in the kitty, because I have learned enough about the BC Liberals over the past 16 years to know that the cupboard is bare and it's going to take a long time to straighten out the financial mess they are leaving behind. Horgan knows this as well, so the only plan he can possibly have is to do what he said he was going to do: claw back the tax breaks that the BC Liberals have been giving corporations and the top 2% , guys like the CEO of BC Ferries, ICBC, et al. Also, he plans to raise the foreign buyers tax to 30%.

I'm sure he has other plans to stop the bleeding of our tax dollars to the wealthy friends of the BC Liberals as well, and I'm willing to wait and see.