ICBC

Re: ICBC: Losses could be $1.3 billion

Postby Urban Cowboy » Jan 10th, 2019, 10:53 am

Urban Cowboy wrote:
Catsumi wrote:ICBC pays broker premiums of almost $500 million per year. A couple of the comments at end of article ask the question "why can't renewals be done online?", especially when there are no changes to policy.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4823459/auto ... insurance/


Simple answer to that question, because doing that would rob them of an opportunity to screw us.

Just another example of how resources in BC get wasted, just like when we have to go to the doctor to renew a prescription we've been on for eons. They trust the pharmacists with thousands of drugs, but apparently feel these same persons are not capable of checking blood pressure.


dontrump wrote:so because they wont allow us to renew online it is another way to screw us? how so?
I don't get your jab? perhaps its a way our policy could be around 11% cheaper as its apparently that's what they pay
in renewal commissions but theres also a few thousand people whom jobs would be in jeopardy also


You pretty much answered your own question. :biggrin:

Put that 500 million towards lowering the rates of good drivers, and getting out of red ink.

As for jobs those places do sell other types of insurance also do they not? BCAA certainly does.
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Re: ICBC: Losses could be $1.3 billion

Postby Merry » Jan 10th, 2019, 11:33 am

dontrump wrote:Merry your talking commercial drivers license here R U Note??

No, just regular drivers license.
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Re: ICBC: Losses could be $1.3 billion

Postby Zoso » Jan 10th, 2019, 5:57 pm

I just recieved a letter from icbc giving me 408 bucks .. they say i paid too much for replacenent insurance and were very sorry .
They have to be nice people I’ve decided.
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Re: ICBC: Losses could be $1.3 billion

Postby dirtybiker » Jan 10th, 2019, 7:48 pm

Zoso wrote:I just recieved a letter from icbc giving me 408 bucks .. they say i paid too much for replacenent insurance and were very sorry .
They have to be nice people I’ve decided.


1st vote payment....check..... :D
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Re: ICBC: Losses could be $1.3 billion

Postby dontrump » Jan 10th, 2019, 10:46 pm

Merry wrote:
dontrump wrote:Merry your talking commercial drivers license here R U Note??

No, just regular drivers license.

Really how in the world would ICBC even know he had diabetes in the first place?
My dad had it and never ever had to do a medical exam for icbc

I mean for sure if u don't eat right and take your insulin you could/will go into diabetic shock and obviously then your a danger to the public at large
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Re: ICBC: Losses could be $1.3 billion

Postby featfan » Jan 18th, 2019, 4:16 pm

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british- ... -1.4983076

Of course BC drivers will pay for this.
Damm that is a big bill.
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Re: ICBC: Losses could be $1.3 billion

Postby Wheels » Jan 25th, 2019, 12:56 pm

ICBC does not employ investigators

As an investigator, if ICBC paid me 1% of what I saved they would be better off. Its so easy, there are no rights to remain silent in insurance claims. Either you supply a plausible explanation and show the proof or your claim will be rejected. When I had a very slight nose to tail, the man in the vehicle infront of me, gave me his details and said, No problem. Life happens and then went to work. Talked to his mates and then claimed he had a sore neck to ICBC. Instantly he got a $7500.00 claim as well as repair (minor but you know how much new plastic bumpers cost). A private investigator would look into his claim, check medical records which MUST be handed over. Talk to witnesses and tell him his claim is rejected! The onus is on the claimant to prove, not the insurance company or its representatives.

The assessors in ICBC, are internally filled, trained and have no life experience.
Take stolen cars for example. If you leave your car running and unlocked and it gets stolen. Tough, no insurance! Easy to investigate.
If you leave visible valuables in the car and they get stolen, tough. No insurance. Your stupidity. I guarantee you won't do that again.
Can't sell your car and it gets mysteriously stolen and burnt out. Very easy to investigate and prove intent. Talk to people. Check classified ads, ask about finances, rents due etc. Talk to people. Refuse to answer basic questions..no insurance.

ICBC is known as the soft insurance company. Wait for a bit and some and they'll eventually pay out.
Finally, every modern car has an EDR (Event Data Recorder). If you want insurance, hand it over to the investigator if you want insurance. An EDR records data on your vehicle before a crash. It tells the investigator what gear you're in, if you were braking, speed before the crash, air pressure in tires, whether your cellphone was being used through your bluetooth, was you radio on, what volume etc. All information that can be verified against a drivers statement. Simple investigation tool.

What do you think the car dealers download everytime you get serviced? Information, all helping in design and warranty claims.
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Re: ICBC: Losses could be $1.3 billion

Postby twobits » Jan 25th, 2019, 8:01 pm

Catsumi wrote:ICBC pays broker premiums of almost $500 million per year. A couple of the comments at end of article ask the question "why can't renewals be done online?", especially when there are no changes to policy.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4823459/auto ... insurance/


Really good question. Why do I need to go to an approved autoplan insurnace office for a straight up renewal to hand over 20% of the policy cost for 5 minutes at a desk?? If there was a policy change.....maybe a fee for service charge.
Straight up same vehicle, same policy, should be available online direct to ICBC less the 20% commission for some underpaid print, copy, and sign clerk.
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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Re: ICBC: Losses could be $1.3 billion

Postby Kareem a-Weet » Jan 26th, 2019, 10:34 am

Autoplan licenses are a gold mine. That's why they cost upward of $1 million if you can find one. Having been in the insurance business for many years I can say with a strong degree of certainty that there are more effective, and much less costly means of distributing insurance. At the pump, for example.
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Re: ICBC: Losses could be $1.3 billion

Postby twobits » Jan 26th, 2019, 6:39 pm

Kareem a-Weet wrote:Autoplan licenses are a gold mine. That's why they cost upward of $1 million if you can find one. Having been in the insurance business for many years I can say with a strong degree of certainty that there are more effective, and much less costly means of distributing insurance. At the pump, for example.


Don't be so cryptic. If you have a credible position.....just say it. How does one distribute auto insurance "at the pump"?
Are you suggesting fuel suppliers, as established franchised operations, become authorized to issue vehicle insurance?
That seems rather simplistic for simple liability issues that would include training of the person providing the insurance docs.

Might work in Thailand or SE Asia, but it won't work here.
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Re: ICBC: Losses could be $1.3 billion

Postby Kareem a-Weet » Jan 27th, 2019, 4:43 pm

Use a bit of lateral thinking, Twobits. A card at the gas pump with your and your car's information could add a premium to the cost of gas. For straight renewals, anyway. More gas you use, the costlier the premium.
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Re: ICBC: Losses could be $1.3 billion

Postby my5cents » Jan 27th, 2019, 7:11 pm

Wheels wrote:ICBC does not employ investigators


Yes they do. They have their own Special Investigation Unit (SIU) and they hire Private Investigators.

Wheels wrote:As an investigator, if ICBC paid me 1% of what I saved they would be better off. Its so easy, there are no rights to remain silent in insurance claims. Either you supply a plausible explanation and show the proof or your claim will be rejected.


There are many types of claims, some are placed by ICBC's insureds, in other words if you have a policy with ICBC and your car is damage you have a contractual obligation to ICBC, as ICBC has with you. Part of that contract of insurance says that if you have a claim you must provide truthful information. If you don't provide a statement when requested "remain silent" you are in breach of the claim. Unfortunately that type of claim is small potatoes.

The other type of claim is the type of claim where a third party claims against an ICBC insured. The third party has no contractual obligation to ICBC. Even if caught lying a claim can't be breached, no such thing, breach is a contractual condition. Credibility may be an issue in court at a later date, but the relationship between the claimant and ICBC is completely different, and no they aren't contractually obligated to provide a statement. Those are the expensive claims and the reason for premium increases.

Oh and the 1%, you'd work for ? There goes your credibility. If you are paid to investigate on a percentage basis of savings (how they would determine how much you saved is a good question) you have a dog in the race and thus your objectivity comes into question.

Wheels wrote:When I had a very slight nose to tail, the man in the vehicle infront of me, gave me his details and said, No problem. Life happens and then went to work. Talked to his mates and then claimed he had a sore neck to ICBC. Instantly he got a $7500.00 claim as well as repair (minor but you know how much new plastic bumpers cost). A private investigator would look into his claim, check medical records which MUST be handed over. Talk to witnesses and tell him his claim is rejected! The onus is on the claimant to prove, not the insurance company or its representatives.

Again, depends on the type of claim, whether medical records are required, not if a Tort claim and not to a PI.

Wheels wrote:The assessors in ICBC, are internally filled, trained and have no life experience.
Take stolen cars for example. If you leave your car running and unlocked and it gets stolen. Tough, no insurance! Easy to investigate.


? assessors ? Are you talking Estimators ?, Adjusters ?, Claims Examiners ?

If you leave your car running and unlocked and it gets stolen, you are fully covered. The "insurance term" is "we insure stupidity".

Wheels wrote:If you leave visible valuables in the car and they get stolen, tough. No insurance. Your stupidity. I guarantee you won't do that again.


Yes you are absolutely correct if you leave visible valuables in your car they are not insured by ICBC. In fact if you hide valuables in your car you still aren't insured. ICBC doesn't insure contents of a vehicle, only the vehicle and equipment attached. (plus a few exceptions, first aid kit, flares,,,,,)

Wheels wrote:Can't sell your car and it gets mysteriously stolen and burnt out. Very easy to investigate and prove intent. Talk to people. Check classified ads, ask about finances, rents due etc. Talk to people. Refuse to answer basic questions..no insurance.


Yes, that's pretty much basic claims adjusting.

Oh, if only it was that simple. You've forgotten one "little" step. The insured can sue in court, just because you were trying to sell your vehicle, you owed a lot of money on the vehicle, that doesn't mean a judge will see it that way, and ICBC has to consider what might happen in court.

Wheels wrote:ICBC is known as the soft insurance company. Wait for a bit and some and they'll eventually pay out.
Finally, every modern car has an EDR (Event Data Recorder). If you want insurance, hand it over to the investigator if you want insurance. An EDR records data on your vehicle before a crash. It tells the investigator what gear you're in, if you were braking, speed before the crash, air pressure in tires, whether your cellphone was being used through your bluetooth, was you radio on, what volume etc. All information that can be verified against a drivers statement. Simple investigation tool.

What do you think the car dealers download everytime you get serviced? Information, all helping in design and warranty claims.


Haven't heard that (ICBC is known as soft) They have the largest SIU (Special Investigation Unit) of any insurance company in Canada, and I suspect in North America. Each SIU Officer is a peace officer, most are ex-police. The term is a "Designated Law Enforcement Unit".

Well they collect some of the data you mentioned, ? tire pressure ? radio volume ?, ah,,, no. Some vehicles have them some don't.

Gotta love Monday morning quarterbacks.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who haven't got it"

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Re: ICBC: Losses could be $1.3 billion

Postby Merry » Jan 27th, 2019, 9:20 pm

dontrump wrote:Really how in the world would ICBC even know he had diabetes in the first place?
My dad had it and never ever had to do a medical exam for icbc

I mean for sure if u don't eat right and take your insulin you could/will go into diabetic shock and obviously then your a danger to the public at large

When my hubby went to renew his license about 8 years ago, the lady asked him if he had any illnesses that could affect his driving, and she gave diabetes as an example. He told her he had Type 2 diabetes but that it has never affected his driving, however she said that he still had to declare it (he doesn't have to take insulin, just pills. And his diabetes is stable).

Following that declaration, ICBC sent him for a medical (at their expense) every year for the first 6 years, and each and every medical came back OK Last year he was sent for yet another medical so I phoned and asked if it was absolutely necessary for him to keep going every year, and was told yes but that if he continued to have good medicals the requirement would become less often. And since that call he hasn't been asked to go again , so we're hoping they've cut the requirement back to just at renewal time.

I suspect a lot of Type 2 diabetics don't self report (because they don't realize they're supposed to), but once my hubby told the lady he had it he was stuck with having to go for all these medicals. However, given the fact that his diabetes is stable, and that he already sees his doctor twice a year for a prescription renewal and checkup, I think all the extra medicals are a waste of ICBC's money. Once a person reports, I could understand ICBC asking for a report from the doctor as to whether or not the doctor feels the diabetes is unstable enough to require such additional oversight, but if the doctor feels the condition is stable then that should be the end of it, unless the condition suddenly gets worse. Doctors are already required to report patients with medical conditions that could affect their driving, so why require all the unnecessary medicals? The last time my hubby had to go for one, he'd only just been for his regular 6 months checkup a couple of weeks prior, so going to see the exact same doctor again so soon after was a waste of both the doctor's and my husband's time (and a waste of ICBC's money).

To make matters worse, prior to retiring, my hubby had to take time off work to go for these pointless medicals.
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Re: ICBC: Losses could be $1.3 billion

Postby Kareem a-Weet » Jan 29th, 2019, 5:43 pm

Here's a fix for ICBC:
Amend (by law) its mandate to provide nothing but basic liability insurance, like the Regie in Quebec used to be (and maybe still is). (Perhaps $200,000 of coverage.) Nothing but. Everything else, including higher limits and own damage coverage has to be bought through private insurers. All non-insurance operations put out to contract.
Simple.

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Re: ICBC: Losses could be $1.3 billion

Postby my5cents » Jan 29th, 2019, 6:30 pm

Kareem a-Weet wrote:Here's a fix for ICBC:
Amend (by law) its mandate to provide nothing but basic liability insurance, like the Regie in Quebec used to be (and maybe still is). (Perhaps $200,000 of coverage.) Nothing but. Everything else, including higher limits and own damage coverage has to be bought through private insurers. All non-insurance operations put out to contract.
Simple.


Well except for the requirement in your proposed amendment that ICBC can't sell anything but the minimum coverage, you are describing the mandatory portion of ICBC insurance right this second.

Every motorist is free to buy all their coverage EXCEPT the first $200,000 from private if they want. If they want to buy from ICBC they can. They have the choice.

Contracting out all "non-insurance" operations is different.

What about the huge database for all vehicle registration records ? Who would control that ?

What about the huge database for driver's records ? Who would control that ?
I gather independent agents would issue driver's licenses ? They would conduct testing themselves. Like Alberta does. The Alberta that people "move to", obtain class one licenses that they couldn't quality for in BC. Then "move back" and want to convert to BC class one licenses ? So do we have a investigation agency that checks out all these private offices ?

Collections of fines ? Who would collect them ?

Do you really think contracting out would a) save money ? b) provide better service ?

If right now you can, if you want, just purchase the first $200,000 public liability coverage from ICBC, what would the benefit of prohibiting ICBC from selling other coverage ?
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