Page 32 of 37

Re: ICBC

PostPosted: Jan 30th, 2019, 2:20 pm
by my5cents
Hassel99 wrote:No

I am saying if you get rid of the independent auto plan agents we have now and make them in house ICBC staff they will have to join the ICBC (government workers) union.

Also,
Autoplan agents get a commission for selling insurance, but they do not get a commission for registering a vehicle or collecting the TAX or the licensing fee for the province. So if if you create a whole new division to distribute plates and register vehicles, collect tax and licensing fees, or move it into Service BC, you have to pay the employees to do that work, were as right now Autoplan brokers are doing it for free as they will be paid on the commission for the insurance that follows the registration and often is included int he same transaction.

If you separate them, you have to set up a whole new infrastructure for the distribution of plates, registration, tax collection etc.. that currently ICBC does not have to pay for.


Gotcha

I confess I don't know how the remuneration goes for agents as far as issuing plates, and collection the PST. I would have assumed each had a portion of the commission. Registration at this time is just part of the issuing of the basic coverage, but as you say that would change.

Common sense would dictate that if you go in to an Autoplan agent and transfer ownership of a vehicle get a new registration and pay the PST and don't buy any insurance, that the agent gets something paid for their efforts.

I know ICBC pays less commission for the basic coverage and more for selling the optional.

I can't see how online renewals would work, since one needs the validation decal and the one piece of paper entitled "Owner's Certificate of Insurance and Vehicle Licence Page 1 or 2" (ICBC form APV250) is an official document with the "Pink Slip" as part of the reverse side (Motor Vehicle Liability Insurance Card Canada Inter-Provincial).

If one can print it out at home, one can fudge it.

Here's some information for everyone -

The only piece of paper you should keep in your vehicle, to produce to police is the "Owner's Certificate of Insurance and Vehicle Licence" Page 1 of 2 NOT 2 of 2 or any of the rest that you are provided with at the insurance office. Page 2 of 2 says what optional coverage you have that is nobody's business, especially someone you're just had a collision with. Everything except Page 1 or 2 should NOT be in your vehicle nor provided to another driver in the event of a collision.

In actual fact in the event of a collision, you are not required to provide the other driver, pedestrian, witness, with any of your documents, you are required to write down your information and give it to them. Same goes for your license.

The only person who gets to handle your documents is a cop.

Re: ICBC

PostPosted: Jan 31st, 2019, 1:23 pm
by tootall23
My recent experience with ICBC showed me how they work.

My friend sent in a request to ICBC for the Last Known Registered Owner of a VW Beetle project he is working on. You send details of the vehicle you need registration for along with $7 cheque. ICBC does a search and sends you the details of the last owner.
Dec.6 My friend mailed it to ICBC . Dec 10 the cheque was cashed.

Phoned 7 weeks later to check on progress. Was informed that it takes 2 months to pass the request from Finance to the department for searches. Told they will put a rush on it. Expect another month or so!!

ICBC figured out how to cash the cheque in 1 or 2 days but approximately 3 months to actually do the requested search.

No wonder they are losing another 900 odd million this year.

Re: ICBC

PostPosted: Jan 31st, 2019, 2:09 pm
by my5cents
tootall23 wrote:My recent experience with ICBC showed me how they work.

My friend sent in a request to ICBC for the Last Known Registered Owner of a VW Beetle project he is working on. You send details of the vehicle you need registration for along with $7 cheque. ICBC does a search and sends you the details of the last owner.
Dec.6 My friend mailed it to ICBC . Dec 10 the cheque was cashed.

Phoned 7 weeks later to check on progress. Was informed that it takes 2 months to pass the request from Finance to the department for searches. Told they will put a rush on it. Expect another month or so!!

ICBC figured out how to cash the cheque in 1 or 2 days but approximately 3 months to actually do the requested search.

No wonder they are losing another 900 odd million this year.


Yes, they don't seem to understand their public perception.

I've had a couple of run in's, all very preventable.

    Run in #1 - My rear number plate is starting to bubble. I'm sure many have seen this happening. I hope ICBC got a deal on the plates.

    I sent an inquiry to ICBC : I explained that their web site had information on just about everything in the world to do with number plates, but absolutely NOTHING about (I'm guessing) the zillions of plates that have and are failing.

    My question was simple : "I've check your web site you have info on plates for every reason except them failing. My insurance is coming up for renewal, are you going to charge me for a new plate ?"

    Answer
    : "Please contact your nearest Autoplan broker. They can call in and speak to their support unit and advise if you qualify for a free plate substitution."

    My response : "Could you please advise how I can contact a senior manager to discuss a concern I have ?"

    Reply from a different person : "If the plate is failing we will replace it for free."

Now that wasn't all that hard was it ????

    Run In # 2 - My wife's mom and dad both died earlier this year, a few months apart. They owned an old Buick 4 door sedan. Emaculate condition with the exception of a blow gasket. Worth $100 if it had a half tank of gas.

    A friend who fixes cars agreed to take it off our hands for the hundred, well aware of the mechanical problem. Vehicle is in both father in law's name and mother in law's name. My wife comes back from the Autoplan agent's office with the vehicle transferred. Dad died first, so everything, (all their stuff) went to mom, then mom died so probating the will etc.
    The Autoplan agent put the vehicle in "The estate of <dad's name> and The estate of <mom's name>". Well you can't sell or do anything with something that is in the estate of two people. It should have been transferred from their joint names to "The estate of <mom's name>", then we could proceed.

    Called ICBC, "you'll have to go to a lawyer and get a (something, letter of understanding or whatever). Ah, this is a hundred dollar car, it will cost $300 to step inside a lawyers office, just to fix your agent's mistake !?

    Long and short of it went back and forth with Vehicle Records for a couple of hours on the phone, they finally agreed to put it in the estate of mom's name. Wife and I drove straight to an Autoplan office, they had to call ICBC and by then they'd changed their mind back to the lawyer !!!!! Another hour, finally got it in estate of mom's name. Oh ya, it cost us another $18 to transfer it correctly.

Both very reasonable problems, easily solved, made into big deals.

Re: ICBC

PostPosted: Feb 1st, 2019, 1:00 pm
by hobbyguy
For the advocates of private insurance, this is worth a careful read: http://www.kelownadailycourier.ca/business_news/article_75496ba2-25af-11e9-81d0-93b58db81eda.html

"Careful what you wish for when it comes to private insurance"

Imagine a land where drivers pay 55 per cent more for auto insurance than other drivers in Canada, a land where an insurance company may not cover you because of the city you live in, a land where your automobile insurance premiums isn't based on your driving record but your postal code.

It's a land that allows British Columbians a peek into the future, if private auto insurance should come to pass in the province.

That land is Ontario.

A 2017 review for the Ontario government done by insurance expert David Marshall — Fair Benefits Fairly Delivered: A Review of the Auto Insurance System in Ontario — found that Ontario drivers paid 55 per cent more than the Canadian average for car insurance and the province had “one of Canada’s least effective auto insurance systems.”

In November, a former employee of Allstate Insurance Canada filed a lawsuit against her former employer for wrongful dismissal, after she pushed back against the company’s “discriminatory” effort to stop selling auto insurance to drivers who live in Brampton, Ont.

Brampton residents pay on average “$1,000 a year more in auto insurance premiums each year than a driver in north Toronto,” according to NDP MPP Gurratan Singh, one of two members of Ontario’s legislature who tabled private members bills last October to end what they called auto insurance postal code “discrimination.”

SNIP

According to an analysis by the Saskatchewan government — based on a composite index modelled after the index developed by the Consumers’ Association of Canada —Vancouver had the highest premiums of the four at $1,966 in 2018, followed by Montreal ($1,884), Regina ($1,199) and Winnipeg ($1,192).

Saskatchewan pegs premiums in Toronto at $4,669. The Insurance Bureau of Canada draws issue with that number, but all observers seem in agreement: among provinces with private insurance, Ontario has the highest premiums.

SNIP

"One Toronto driver illustrated that province’s rate hike well: “Never had an accident in my life and my insurance increased last year from $219 to $280 per month” or $3,360 annually."


I recall the gong show of private auto insurance in BC, and yes - it was a complete gong show, expensive, terrible service, full of arbitrary "out" clauses, and nearly every claim was a major fight.

Re: ICBC

PostPosted: Feb 1st, 2019, 2:12 pm
by my5cents
Yes, hobbyguy, those who experience private in BC are few and far between, so really the "knowledge" of how great private insurance is, over ICBC, comes from those that moved here or know someone who lives in a private insurance province.

The trouble is, most people don't understand insurance. Their cousin in ? has the exact same vehicle and the exact same insurance and pays half as much. When you actually check into the exact same insurance, it's not even close.

I remember private insurance. Placed a claim for a break in to my vehicle. The thief broke my no draft and stole all my 8 tracks. I paid the $50 deductible and the insurance company replaced the broken no draft window and paid for one 8 track. They didn't raise my rates !!!!! They cancelled all my coverage except basic liability.

A vehicle backed into my car while I was travelling through a parking lot. I got all the details from the other driver, who was at fault. I called his insurance company, they told me to get three estimates. I drove around and got the three, called the adjuster and told him the three prices. I think the lowest was $400. He said he'd have a cheque ready that afternoon. I got there and he handed me a cheque. I looked at it, "Hey this is wrong this cheque is for only $200". He said "That's what your getting, if you don't like it sue us."

Re: ICBC

PostPosted: Feb 7th, 2019, 4:32 pm
by Froskii
If they would just settle instead of dragging *bleep* on in courts it would save them huge. It took my lawyer 2 years to settle my case because i was hit by an Alberta driver that apparently had no insurance but yet the police did not know they had no insurance at the accident scene nor could they tell they were clearing hopped up on some drug. The police let them drive away. My car was a write off. In the end ICBC ended up paying the claim out because of the Alberta driver on our roads with no insurance.

Re: ICBC

PostPosted: Feb 7th, 2019, 5:53 pm
by dontrump
hey My5Cents you should have just forged the signatures ;; what I have done ;; works well ;;LOL

Re: ICBC

PostPosted: Feb 7th, 2019, 6:03 pm
by jimmy4321
On track to a 1.18 Billion dollar loss

https://www.castanet.net/edition/news-s ... htm#248779

When you're losing "On Track" is usually low balled, be interesting to see the real number.

Re: ICBC

PostPosted: Feb 7th, 2019, 7:34 pm
by my5cents
dontrump wrote:hey My5Cents you should have just forged the signatures ;; what I have done ;; works well ;;LOL


One should pick one's crimes carefully. By the time I got involved it was in the name of "the estate of <dead father in law> AND the estate of <dead mother in law>".

Hard to convince anyone that two dead people signed their signatures to sell their vehicle.

They do that cuz the government has to get it's taxes on everything. The tax is ½ of 1%. so on the $100, that we sold the vehicle for that's a cool 50¢. I hope the government didn't spend it all in one place.

Re: ICBC

PostPosted: Feb 7th, 2019, 7:40 pm
by my5cents
Froskii wrote:If they would just settle instead of dragging *bleep* on in courts it would save them huge. It took my lawyer 2 years to settle my case because i was hit by an Alberta driver that apparently had no insurance but yet the police did not know they had no insurance at the accident scene nor could they tell they were clearing hopped up on some drug. The police let them drive away. My car was a write off. In the end ICBC ended up paying the claim out because of the Alberta driver on our roads with no insurance.


In your case it was much more involved than what you describe "just settle instead of dragging it on through the courts" (my edit)

If the other driver wasn't insured, after settling with you, ICBC has the right to go after him having paid you out on your uninsured benefits insurance, part of your basic coverage.

ICBC can't just hand you a bunch of money and then go after the other guy demanding it back. They have a duty to pay a fair amount, because in actual fact they could be recovering from the third party. That's likely the reason, but in reality they likely won't be too successful. However I do know some of the ICBC collections people check the big lottery winners to see if any owe a bundle to ICBC.

Re: ICBC

PostPosted: Feb 7th, 2019, 8:00 pm
by Richadio
Well Well, another $860mil loss to ICBC. An over run corporate government entity. Just announced a $5000 cap on claims for pain and suffering. How about lowering rates to where they should be compared to the rest of the country and open up the market to private insurance. To save a few million a year, how about trimming some fat from the top too. Bring the wages down to reality, cut the severance and bonus packages. If you are claiming negative losses every year, why is the top still receiving performance bonuses. What are you performing in? I think we all like to know cause I am sick and tired of over paying for insurance and feeding the fat.

Re: ICBC

PostPosted: Feb 7th, 2019, 8:01 pm
by lesliepaul
Its getting to the point where I am having are hard time believing these claims of multi BILLION dollar losses that LYING politicians keep telling us. I still want to know how much ICBC brings in COLLECTIVELY from ALL of their departments...…….including investments yearly. If we solely rely on them to tell us the truth when they know their lying can extort more money out of the taxpayers, that is the road B.C. politicians take every time...……..they are unaccountable as it stands today.

Re: ICBC

PostPosted: Feb 8th, 2019, 9:56 am
by my5cents
Richadio wrote:Well Well, another $860mil loss to ICBC. An over run corporate government entity. Just announced a $5000 cap on claims for pain and suffering. How about lowering rates to where they should be compared to the rest of the country and open up the market to private insurance. To save a few million a year, how about trimming some fat from the top too. Bring the wages down to reality, cut the severance and bonus packages. If you are claiming negative losses every year, why is the top still receiving performance bonuses. What are you performing in? I think we all like to know cause I am sick and tired of over paying for insurance and feeding the fat.


If you'd care to read the preceding contributions to this topic you'd see, explained, what has happened.

I gather, by you saying "Just announced a $5000 cap on claims for pain and suffering", you are meaning, "Hey they've capped the claims, why another loss ? !".

Well the cap doesn't go into effect until April, there is no cap yet..

"How about lowering rates to where they should be compared to the rest of the country and open up the market to private insurance" Of course this makes no sense. How can, or should, a company lower rates BEFORE they have fixed the problem that has caused the losses that necessitated the increase ?

As for "and open up the market to private insurance". I guess you are one of those who blames the rising costs on ICBCs management. Without the change in legislation, caused by greedy lawyers and claimants, and generous courts, private would be charging even more than ICBC.

As for the reason for the high premiums being caused "by the fat". I'd love for you to supply the facts to show ICBC is out of line with any private auto insurance company in Canada. Or are you just supposing those facts exist and stating as though they really exist.

The Liberal government commissioned a study on ICBC rates (information mentioned, as I say in previous contributions to this topic, and others on ICBC), and then chose not to take any action, in fact to the extent that they eliminated that portion of the report that suggested we needed a Threshold No Fault Tort System before release of the report. The lack of action, the removal of this information and the continual removal of monies from ICBC by the Liberals, is open to speculation.

The jurisdictions that you compare ICBC rates to, all have forms of Threshold No Fault Tort.

You are demanding action prior to the solution being implemented and having a chance to work.

Also don't forget insurance isn't like selling widgets, an insurance company doesn't buy a wholesale product and sell it retail and realize a profit or a loss. An insurance company sells a policy, it's in effect for a year, any claims against that policy have years to result in a claim being paid, there will be a lead time.

You may not have lived in BC to experience private insurance. There was a reason ICBC was created.

Give it time.

Re: ICBC

PostPosted: Feb 8th, 2019, 10:05 am
by Cactusflower
if any of you want to find out how private insurance companies work, just watch the movie "The Rainmaker". It's lawyer/author John Grisham's fact-based fictional story of a big insurance corporation.

Re: ICBC

PostPosted: Feb 11th, 2019, 12:09 pm
by casey60
Governments should not be in private business. To "give it time" as one poster mentioned, ICBC has been in place sine Dave Barrett put that in place in the early 70'. So plenty of time in my books. Maybe if not all the following governments would not have raided ICBC and ICBC strictly sells insurance, ICBC may not be in the mess they are in are now.