Child care mess

[Bsuds]

There is an easy solution...have the Gov't provide free (mandatory) birth control! Problem solved.


You're welcome.

[flamingfingers]

There is an easy solution...have the Gov't provide free (mandatory) birth control! Problem solved.


You're welcome.

FREE (Mandatory) VASECTOMIES!!! Yay!!

[Bsuds]

There is an easy solution...have the Gov't provide free (mandatory) birth control! Problem solved.


You're welcome.

FREE (Mandatory) VASECTOMIES!!! Yay!!

Must have it to collect welfare and the Ladies as well.

[hobbyguy]

Actually, it makes little sense and it isn't progressive to subsidize daycare through subsidizing the operators. A person with $250k income gets the same deal as the person making $20k that way.

The simplest thing would have been a refundable tax credit, which could then be tied to the incomes of parents.

But that's far to complicated for the BC NDP?LEAP to be able to grasp... the old principle... KISS. Plus no corrupt games for them to play...

[George+]

You have to subsidize the operstors to get the spaces.

[seewood]

You have to subsidize the operstors to get the spaces.

Any relation to MJ ?

[hobbyguy]

You have to subsidize the operstors to get the spaces.

No you don't.

Typical NDP math challenged answer.

Option A:

Price: $1,000 - subsidy $350 = $650 net price to parent, net difference to operator = $0

BUT it requires a whole new bureaucracy, so the cost to taxpayers = $400 not $350, and dealing with that bureaucracy now costs operators, so the beginning price goes from $1,000 to $1025, so the efficiency of the program for taxpayers is now 325/400 = 81%.

Probable outcome: the operators have a lot more hassle because they have to deal with the extra bureaucracy, so fewer people will want to be in that business = fewer spaces, especially given the price control part of the bureaucracy.

Option B:

Price: $1,000

Parent receives a $500 refundable tax credit at the end of the year if income less than $45,000
Parent receives a $350 refundable tax credit if income between $46,000 and $60,000
etc. etc. until you get:

Parent receives NO refundable tax credit if income greater than $150,000.

Income tax bureaucracy already exists, so no additional cost to government. Operator does not have additional nonsense to deal with, so can keep price down. No disincentive for operators, so more likelihood of more spaces.

Efficiency for taxpayers = 99.5% and much fairer application.

Part 2 of that option: take the 16% gain in taxpayer efficiency, and give grants to municipalities to build purpose built daycare facilities near schools/parks on public land. Now you will get more spaces as operators get leases from municipalities....

So yup, the dufus BC NDP/LEAP have totally messed this up, just like everything else they touch.

[George+]

You can subsidize the parents all you want.

But if there are no spaces it is totally meaningless.

[hobbyguy]

You can subsidize the parents all you want.

But if there are no spaces it is totally meaningless.

You are absolutely correct, which is why either the Green party plan or the refundable tax credit are far superior and much simpler.

What the BC NDP/LEAP are doing, with price controls/subsidies to operators and bunch more bureaucracy is inefficient, and will have the consequence of fewer operators. The same type of negative effect as rent controls (which has produced a shortage of rentals) will come from daycare price controls.

We already saw that daycare spaces in Vancouver were shut down as a result of previous BC NDP stupidity, this goofy approach to daycare from the incompetent BC NDP/LEAP will just compound the problem.

It is, as always with the BC NDP, "shoot, aim, ready". It boggles the mind that they could not choose one of the better options. Either the simple refundable tax credit or the balanced and thought out approach that is in the Green platform. Somehow the BC NDP/LEAP always choose the dumbest way.

[Veovis]

You are absolutely correct, which is why either the Green party plan or the refundable tax credit are far superior and much simpler.

What the BC NDP/LEAP are doing, with price controls/subsidies to operators and bunch more bureaucracy is inefficient, and will have the consequence of fewer operators. The same type of negative effect as rent controls (which has produced a shortage of rentals) will come from daycare price controls.

We already saw that daycare spaces in Vancouver were shut down as a result of previous BC NDP stupidity, this goofy approach to daycare from the incompetent BC NDP/LEAP will just compound the problem.

It is, as always with the BC NDP, "shoot, aim, ready". It boggles the mind that they could not choose one of the better options. Either the simple refundable tax credit or the balanced and thought out approach that is in the Green platform. Somehow the BC NDP/LEAP always choose the dumbest way.

The tax credit method isn't a terrible thought there hobbyguy. However any subsidy received should be paid DIRECTLY to the provider. Each month the child is registered there, not just a refund to the family. The reason is, the parents will buy a new TV and then complain that they never got their subsidised daycare.

Remember the $1,00 a year from the Federal government and how evil it was they helped with costs and people complained endlessly about free money....ya that issue. Taxes qualify you, and you register with the daycare and they receive payment until you are no longer registered there.

However, where investment could happen is grants to existing places to buy, or rent and renovate an additional location to add more spots. A billion is a lot of money but we both know it's not going to child care...it will be government studies and consultations and then a completely new bureaucracy to manage it all.

[hobbyguy]

You are absolutely correct, which is why either the Green party plan or the refundable tax credit are far superior and much simpler.

What the BC NDP/LEAP are doing, with price controls/subsidies to operators and bunch more bureaucracy is inefficient, and will have the consequence of fewer operators. The same type of negative effect as rent controls (which has produced a shortage of rentals) will come from daycare price controls.

We already saw that daycare spaces in Vancouver were shut down as a result of previous BC NDP stupidity, this goofy approach to daycare from the incompetent BC NDP/LEAP will just compound the problem.

It is, as always with the BC NDP, "shoot, aim, ready". It boggles the mind that they could not choose one of the better options. Either the simple refundable tax credit or the balanced and thought out approach that is in the Green platform. Somehow the BC NDP/LEAP always choose the dumbest way.

The tax credit method isn't a terrible thought there hobbyguy. However any subsidy received should be paid DIRECTLY to the provider. Each month the child is registered there, not just a refund to the family. The reason is, the parents will buy a new TV and then complain that they never got their subsidised daycare.

Remember the $1,00 a year from the Federal government and how evil it was they helped with costs and people complained endlessly about free money....ya that issue. Taxes qualify you, and you register with the daycare and they receive payment until you are no longer registered there.

However, where investment could happen is grants to existing places to buy, or rent and renovate an additional location to add more spots. A billion is a lot of money but we both know it's not going to child care...it will be government studies and consultations and then a completely new bureaucracy to manage it all.

It gets really, really complicated subsidizing the operator, and it does not maximize the effectiveness of the program. A refundable (not regular deduction) tax credit allows you to make the program very progressive, and target higher subsidies to lower income families.

The Green platform plan is a neat split. Early childhood education for 3 year olds and up. The option for a parent of younger children to stay home and receive $600/month or receive a somewhat larger daycare subsidy. The stay at home option may actually work out really well for low income parents.

[hobbyguy]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/contract-confusion-forces-b-c-government-to-push-back-signing-deadline-for-child-care-providers-1.4594414

Still a mess, but now an extended mess...

[Veovis]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/contract-confusion-forces-b-c-government-to-push-back-signing-deadline-for-child-care-providers-1.4594414

Still a mess, but now an extended mess...

As with all of the non Liberal budget NDP plan it's a mess and kick it down the road again is the answer.

sad


Still hobby your argument for not subsidizing operators I understand, but still see the reality that if you refund it to the family, they buy a TV and then cry they don't get childcare help. We saw it before with 1200 free money a year, that if spent on childcare was free. IF not you paid back the tax rate....still free money but a lot of crying.

People aren't smart or responsible, the NDP fans know this it's why they want the government to run everything and save us all. (they ruin us but they never see that), so we can't actually send them the money, it literally has to be like going to the hospital for free before they will comprehend a benefit and at that......still complain.

[JLives]

I spend zero time worrying about fraud. It is not even close to being a big deal. I worry about finding a good space to care for my son first and how to pay for it second. I just got an after school care spot a few months ago after being on waiting lists for 2 YEARS. And the only reason I got in was because my son befriended the son of one of the workers. Two days before when we called we were told there was no vacancies at that facility. It's really hard for working parents and they need to do whatever they can to make more spaces because the free market is not meeting demand.

[hobbyguy]

I spend zero time worrying about fraud. It is not even close to being a big deal. I worry about finding a good space to care for my son first and how to pay for it second. I just got an after school care spot a few months ago after being on waiting lists for 2 YEARS. And the only reason I got in was because my son befriended the son of one of the workers. Two days before when we called we were told there was no vacancies at that facility. It's really hard for working parents and they need to do whatever they can to make more spaces because the free market is not meeting demand.

I agree with your perspective, and that not enough was being done to deal with it.

I would mention that my daughter had the same issue, got together with some other parents and the school, and were able to set up after school daycare provided they put in the time to manage it. It WAS a headache for her, but they made it work. That was SD #57 - and they seem to be pretty practical.

I would also point out that the $10/day daycare notions don't really seem to provide an answer: https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/09/29/child-care-subsidy_n_8178184.html