Extra billing made illegal

[vegas1500]

[quote="vegas1500] And routine MRI's are not usually done in a hospital...not in AB anyway.[/quote]
Too bad,
It was actually the High Level, AB hospital where I had one done 4 years ago after a rollover in a big truck. I have got to say their MRI machine was beautiful ( brand new at the time, I was one of the first people in it ) and they even brought in a technician at 11pm.
I hope no one here ever ends up in the hospital there, but if you do you will be treated right.[/quote]

Small towns may be an exception, but in the city you are sent to an imagining clinic, hospitals are for patients there and emergencies. High level is great!

[twobits]

And that's what makes the don't get it elite crowd, "I'm helping the others in the long line up by paying my own way" laughable. For them it's all about me,me,me.

Your reading comprehension is wanting. Your blind ideological acceptance makes you a perfect NDPG minion. I mean seriously, why bother thinking for yourself when you can sign a NDP party membership card and have them do all of the thinking for you?
If you even devoted the time of commercial break between the Simpsons and The Family guy, to some actual policy analysis, you would be a more informed voter.

[GrooveTunes]

And that's what makes the don't get it elite crowd, "I'm helping the others in the long line up by paying my own way" laughable. For them it's all about me,me,me.

Your reading comprehension is wanting. Your blind ideological acceptance makes you a perfect NDPG minion. I mean seriously, why bother thinking for yourself when you can sign a NDP party membership card and have them do all of the thinking for you?
If you even devoted the time of commercial break between the Simpsons and The Family guy, to some actual policy analysis, you would be a more informed voter.

Haha. Canadians will always take public health care over private. Get use to it.

https://www.cma.ca/En/Pages/new-survey-shows-majority-of-canadians-support-the-federal-government.aspx

[Drip_Torch]

Dt - you miss the point altogether. It isn't one queue. The private clinics offer a second queue.
Used them a lot for injured workers and was able to get them better care and back to work faster at lower total cost to the companies I worked for. When we did that, those injured workers came out of the public queue, and so it sped up the public queue, saved government cost, both in terms of medical treatment and in terms of WorkSafe payouts.

Yes, it appears I've missed your point altogether, but I found it by reading what you haven't wrote in your posts.

First, interesting perspective backed up by a story I'm completely unfamiliar with. I've taken the a few trips to the emergency room over the years. Incidentally, if you get a chance, Bella Coola can be a bit of fun. The facility is a little stark, perhaps even dank, but if you time your accident right and the helicopter is trying to land during recess, or lunch - it is kind of fun watching the teachers get the kids off the school ground so the helicopter can land. Think herding mice. But I digress, my point is I've never had a manager take any interest in my diagnosis, treatment or recovery. That's all been handled by my doctor in consultation with worksafe.

In fact, I've been to a private MRI suite, more than once, and the difference between this and that, is in my experience that MRI facility asked for my worksafe claim number, not my MSP card.

Back when I was a middle manager (yes, I made a living talking fast and walking with purpose -too) I had the odd employee get broken and sent to worksafe land. I was never involved beyond making sure they arrived and their people were notified. I resented the paperwork it caused, but that wasn't the reason I wasn't involved in their recovery. As I understood it - to be involved would be illegal.

Which brings me to the point that evidentially, I missed.

I didn’t realize that you could pick and choose which laws apply to you. Apparently, from reading your posts, the fact this extra billing practice is illegal both federally and provincially doesn’t weigh into your perspective at all. Your second queue appears to be an entitlement that you’ve granted yourself and the fact it’s illegal – who cares. Fact it takes federal funding away from the provincial system – who cares.

You have a very unique outlook on things, kind of wild and perhaps even a bit precarious. Actually, I think it’s kind of cool – in a rebellious teenager sort of way. So tell me, any other laws that shouldn't apply to you?

[john100]

Extra billing may have been made illegal, but that wasn't recently. The Canada health act made extra billing illegal a very long time ago. The headline puts quite a slant on it. Heres food for thought: If these doctors that have the private clinics are only in it so there patients can get timely medical care why don't they just bill the same amount as they would get paid by the B.C. Medical service and bill the province?

[john100]

somebody gets bumped

[john100]

Nobody would complain if you charged the same amount medical services would pay you and you billed the government and not your patients. It's the thin edge of the wedge. My sister lives in San Jose Ca. and pays $13,000 U.S. ($16,000 Canadian) a year for healthcare with a 20% deductible . She has congestive heart failure so she has another $43,000 U.S. ($54,900 Canadian) in debt for the 20% she has to pay out of pocket and if she misses one payment they'll kick her off of health care and she will no longer be able to get coverage for her "preexisting" condition. Sorry but I'd much rather everybody took there wedges and went home.

[Veovis]

I have to say John what is your argument? What do you mean the same as they charge? You mean free, or actual costs?

You see there is a difference between what our system charges us and what it costs for us to receive services.

I feel for your sister as the US system is unforgiving and terrible in many ways, but Canada has a far better system and I hope we never move to private, however I don't personally find the issue with additional services happening if the doctors have met their public commitments.

What level we set for public commitments perhaps need to increase, however that is another issue entirely. I've seen a number of clinics stop taking walk ins simply because they have put in their dues and can.

[hobbyguy]

Dt - you miss the point altogether. It isn't one queue. The private clinics offer a second queue.
Used them a lot for injured workers and was able to get them better care and back to work faster at lower total cost to the companies I worked for. When we did that, those injured workers came out of the public queue, and so it sped up the public queue, saved government cost, both in terms of medical treatment and in terms of WorkSafe payouts.

Yes, it appears I've missed your point altogether, but I found it by reading what you haven't wrote in your posts.

First, interesting perspective backed up by a story I'm completely unfamiliar with. I've taken the a few trips to the emergency room over the years. Incidentally, if you get a chance, Bella Coola can be a bit of fun. The facility is a little stark, perhaps even dank, but if you time your accident right and the helicopter is trying to land during recess, or lunch - it is kind of fun watching the teachers get the kids off the school ground so the helicopter can land. Think herding mice. But I digress, my point is I've never had a manager take any interest in my diagnosis, treatment or recovery. That's all been handled by my doctor in consultation with worksafe.

In fact, I've been to a private MRI suite, more than once, and the difference between this and that, is in my experience that MRI facility asked for my worksafe claim number, not my MSP card.

Back when I was a middle manager (yes, I made a living talking fast and walking with purpose -too) I had the odd employee get broken and sent to worksafe land. I was never involved beyond making sure they arrived and their people were notified. I resented the paperwork it caused, but that wasn't the reason I wasn't involved in their recovery. As I understood it - to be involved would be illegal.

Which brings me to the point that evidentially, I missed.

I didn’t realize that you could pick and choose which laws apply to you. Apparently, from reading your posts, the fact this extra billing practice is illegal both federally and provincially doesn’t weigh into your perspective at all. Your second queue appears to be an entitlement that you’ve granted yourself and the fact it’s illegal – who cares. Fact it takes federal funding away from the provincial system – who cares.

You have a very unique outlook on things, kind of wild and perhaps even a bit precarious. Actually, I think it’s kind of cool – in a rebellious teenager sort of way. So tell me, any other laws that shouldn't apply to you?

I can see that you never took a proactive approach to looking after injured workers. Many good managers do. IF you looked into it, you would find that employers can be involved legally, but at arm's length. Progressive companies often have nurses or nurse practitioners either available on a consulting basis, or as permanent consultants. THEY can legally be involved in making sure that an employee's treatment is both appropriate and suggest methods to employers to expedite and/or improve the care given. So I would go to the nurse consultant, and ask what can we do to get employee "x" better care? I would have no knowledge of the details - but simply trusted the consulting nurse - so if they said employee "x" would benefit from a private MRI because it will expedite their care, I would ask how much? And if I had the $$$ in my budget, approve the expense.

As I pointed out - when we did that:

- employee "x" comes out of the public queue, thus getting faster care for someone else.
- employee "x" gets better care at no cost to employee "x"
- WorkSafe saves $$$
- the public system saves $$$
- the company saves $$$ on their WorkSafe assessments

wini-win-win-win

Add it up - multiply by the number of cases handled that way, and the $15.9 million that is being touted is peanuts.

Yes, extra billing is illegal, but should it be necessary? and what happens if instead of playing politics and "whack-a-mole" the health ministry negotiates a fair deal like Saskatchewan did? Everybody wins.

[Drip_Torch]

I can see that you never took a proactive approach to looking after injured workers. Many good managers do. IF you looked into it, you would find that employers can be involved legally, but at arm's length. Progressive companies often have nurses or nurse practitioners either available on a consulting basis, or as permanent consultants. THEY can legally be involved in making sure that an employee's treatment is both appropriate and suggest methods to employers to expedite and/or improve the care given. So I would go to the nurse consultant, and ask what can we do to get employee "x" better care? I would have no knowledge of the details - but simply trusted the consulting nurse - so if they said employee "x" would benefit from a private MRI because it will expedite their care, I would ask how much? And if I had the $$$ in my budget, approve the expense.

As I pointed out - when we did that:

- employee "x" comes out of the public queue, thus getting faster care for someone else.
- employee "x" gets better care at no cost to employee "x"
- WorkSafe saves $$$
- the public system saves $$$
- the company saves $$$ on their WorkSafe assessments

wini-win-win-win

Add it up - multiply by the number of cases handled that way, and the $15.9 million that is being touted is peanuts.

Yes, extra billing is illegal, but should it be necessary? and what happens if instead of playing politics and "whack-a-mole" the health ministry negotiates a fair deal like Saskatchewan did? Everybody wins.

Completely different experience to mine. Treat, transport, inform, investigate, in that order, and make sure the form 7 is complete and filed within 3 days. The worker could be my bestie in the off work hours, but I couldn't get sentimental, cause the worker's just a rental. The show must go on and now my job is complicated by the fact I've got another moving part to manage and I'm one down.

Your bullet points seem to overlook the liabilities and my principals would never do that, - or tolerate me doing that.

The extra billing is illegal, but should it be necessary - you ask? Well, in my opinion, the way you make something legal is by repealing or replacing the law, not ignoring it. Would I be in favour of changes to the law?

Nope.