How will you vote in BC Electoral Reform Referendum?

How will you vote in this fall's BC Electoral Reform Referendum?

Current System of "First Past the Post"
114
72%
Proportional Representation - Option 1 = Dual Member Proportional
10
6%
Proportional Representation - Option 2 = Mixed Member Proportional
25
16%
Proportional Representation - Option 3 = Rural-Urban Proportional Representation
10
6%
 
Total votes : 159

How will you vote in BC Electoral Reform Referendum?

Postby NotNorthAnymore » Jul 2nd, 2018, 1:53 pm

Been reading thru all the comments but no one has posted a poll.
Not that long till the ballots come out.
I know how I am voting :130: - Do you?
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/electoral-reform-referendum-question-eby-1.4683919
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Re: How will you vote in BC Electoral Reform Referendum?

Postby kelownman » Jul 2nd, 2018, 3:55 pm

For the record, I am in FAVOR of election reform and STV (single transferrable vote). Why the NDP didnt want to put that method to the voters again is beyond me. It passed the 50 +1 vote but failed to reach the 60% level that was required back during that vote.

Instead the NDP is putting forth a complicated, unproven or untried proportional voting system that is not used anywhere in the world! Maybe, the NDP, just want to keep FPTP and came up with these ridiculous voting system because they knew it would fail!

Just another reason that the malfeasance liberals will regain power to wreak havoc on this province yet again!
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Re: How will you vote in BC Electoral Reform Referendum?

Postby Merry » Jul 2nd, 2018, 4:38 pm

I can't answer your poll yet because I honestly don't know.

It bugs me that the Government are rushing to a vote, without providing adequate information about all the various choices. I've tried doing research on my own, but most of what I've found makes the various options sound so complicated it gives me a headache.

I'm all in favour of electoral reform but, if they don't put out some easy to understand educational material soon about the various options, I'll probably end up voting for the status quo (which is EXACTLY what I did last time, and for EXACTLY the same reason.
"In a world swathed in political correctness, the voting booth remains the final sanctuary where the people are free to speak" - Clifford Orwin

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Re: How will you vote in BC Electoral Reform Referendum?

Postby GordonH » Jul 2nd, 2018, 4:41 pm

If the turn out is anything like the last number of Provincial election, then this whole thing is just f :cuss: ing pile of BS.

BC government should agree the only way 50+1 % vote passes, is if at least 65% (minimum, higher the better) of BC voters cast a vote.
When you have to start compromising yourself and your morals for the people around you, it’s probably time to change the people around you.

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Re: How will you vote in BC Electoral Reform Referendum?

Postby flamingfingers » Jul 2nd, 2018, 4:51 pm

If ignorance is bliss, why is everyone so unhappy?
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Re: How will you vote in BC Electoral Reform Referendum?

Postby LordEd » Jul 2nd, 2018, 5:35 pm

With first-past-the-post, voters often feel compelled to “plug their nose” and vote for a candidate which is not their first choice, to prevent a candidate they dislike from winning. Because each riding is a zero-sum game with one winner, parties with many policies in common run overly adversarial campaigns against each other.
Well guess what, with a proportional system, you won't be able to prevent that person from getting power as they will get topped up into power.
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Re: How will you vote in BC Electoral Reform Referendum?

Postby Urbane » Jul 2nd, 2018, 5:39 pm

From flamingfingers' linked article:

A single party will no longer be able to attain a majority government with just 40% of the vote, and cooperation and compromise will become the norm


More frequent elections will become the norm! So ironic that we keep hearing about 40% of the vote providing a majority government when this very referendum allows for an option chosen by 34% to win out. Now that's not fair. But you respond that a transferable ballot will be used for the three options. Ha ha . . . yes, but FPTP won't be allowed to be considered in the transferable process. So FPTP is your second or third choice! Too bad for you. Eby, the "neutral arbiter," is taking away your right to vote FPTP as your second or third choice. Fair vote . . . [icon_lol2.gif] [icon_lol2.gif] [icon_lol2.gif]

As for the PR options themselves I second what LordEd just said. More irony as we're told that more accountability is needed so we get party lists being used to "elect" MLA's. That means no accountability except to the party bosses. What a big step backward when it comes to democracy and accountability. Terrible process, terrible ballot, and terrible PR options!
"Spectemur agendo"

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Re: How will you vote in BC Electoral Reform Referendum?

Postby alfred2 » Jul 2nd, 2018, 5:55 pm

no

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Re: How will you vote in BC Electoral Reform Referendum?

Postby Hurtlander » Jul 3rd, 2018, 6:26 am

flamingfingers wrote:This may help explain:

https://www.fairvote.ca/bc-pr-systems/

This is a better explanation:

https://biv.com/article/2018/06/what-bc ... ean-voters
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Re: How will you vote in BC Electoral Reform Referendum?

Postby rustled » Jul 3rd, 2018, 10:08 am

From ff's link:
Will our MLAs be accountable to voters or will they be appointed party hacks?
All proportional systems supported by Fair Vote Canada BC mean all MPs face the voters.

With a mixed member system, the regional MPs would be elected on an open list – meaning voters pick the individuals.

With a multi-member system, voters directly choose the most popular individuals.

Nobody is appointed or gets a free ride.

Hm. Well, I'm not sure I get this, and it's probably a bit of an assumption on FVC's part. But okay, maybe.

Well, hold on. From Hurtlander's link:
Problems/questions

DMP is a new system and hasn’t been put into practice anywhere in the world. Although its results are proportional across the province, and all MLAs will represent their local districts, the second seat in each district might not be representative of the local vote. For example, a party with an overwhelming majority in a district might only get one seat, or the second seat may skip the runner-up and go to the third-place party if it is lacking seats across the province.

So. How happy do you think people in the hinterlands will feel when one of their region's two MLAs actually represent the wishes of Lower Mainland voters? The voters wanted their first two choices of reps, but the Lower Mainland is "under represented" in Victoria, so tough luck, you get your distant third choice who was only preferred by a handful of local voters.

Sounds to me like future elections will be much like this referendum: results determined by the LM.

Fourth-generation North Van folk and people who've never left the metro area deciding who represents BC's hinterlands. What could go wrong?

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Re: How will you vote in BC Electoral Reform Referendum?

Postby rustled » Jul 3rd, 2018, 10:27 am

More from ff's link:
Countries with proportional systems, on average, are ahead of countries with winner-take-all systems on numerous measures, including:
  • Lower income inequality
  • Better environmental performance
  • Higher voter turnout
  • Higher satisfaction with democracy
  • More women elected
When government is cooperative, the policies passed are usually supported by parties representing a genuine majority of voters. This means better decision making.

What they don't say: The PR systems we're being offered are DIFFERENT from the PR systems used in other countries.

"Sweet potatoes are used by other countries to make wonderful pies. Here, BC voters, you get to choose from these three varieties of potato. No, they're not the same, but just trust us. The pie will turn out the same."

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Re: How will you vote in BC Electoral Reform Referendum?

Postby jimmy4321 » Jul 3rd, 2018, 10:36 am

I'd go 1st past the post , though it's that system that allowed these incompetents to lose ,then tag team with other losers in order to *bleep* the electorate :200:

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Re: How will you vote in BC Electoral Reform Referendum?

Postby Hurtlander » Jul 3rd, 2018, 11:36 am

Unfortunately as flawed as FPTP is, its still more democratic than the three PR choice being offered. There’s no way I can support any type of PR where there’s a chance that my MLA will be hand picked or appointed. The one form of PR that I could support, STV, which is straight forward and democratic is not one of the options. Unlike the first two referendums, I’ll be voting to keep FPTP this time around... that is if the government provides me the opportunity to vote, since I’ll be out of the country, but that’s a different problem that I’m dealing with.

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Re: How will you vote in BC Electoral Reform Referendum?

Postby rustled » Jul 3rd, 2018, 11:41 am

Hurtlander, initially I thought holding the referendum at a time when a good chunk of the population wouldn't be able to vote was simply more bumbling.

But one must wonder, did they actually consider this and determine it to be to their advantage? That is, given the options available, would you say the snowbird demographic is more likely to vote status quo?

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Re: How will you vote in BC Electoral Reform Referendum?

Postby Merry » Jul 3rd, 2018, 12:52 pm

rustled wrote:Hurtlander, initially I thought holding the referendum at a time when a good chunk of the population wouldn't be able to vote was simply more bumbling.

But one must wonder, did they actually consider this and determine it to be to their advantage? That is, given the options available, would you say the snowbird demographic is more likely to vote status quo?

I tend to agree with you rustled, that the older generation will most likely go for FPTP - mainly because that's what they're used to and understand the most.

The fact that they're not allowing enough time for us to really understand the various choices, and holding the vote at a time when many older folks (who tend to vote Liberal) will be out of the country, certainly seems suspicious.
"In a world swathed in political correctness, the voting booth remains the final sanctuary where the people are free to speak" - Clifford Orwin

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